[Z06] Forum Question: Accident
03-06-2007, 12:23 PM
#181
Safety Car
Again ... the private sector would be best way to 'stimulate' attendance at driving courses. Insurance industry needs to offer significant auto policy discounts to those who attend.
Target the youth ... where policy's are already super high. Offer an initial 200.00 annual reduction (for 2 years) in insurance rates to those who pass course. Let auto industry run the courses ( if they so desired ). Would be a homerun for their industry. They make money off course (say 400-500 $) ... to offset the 400.00 savings to [junior/susy] if they are accident free for their first 2 years driving. Then provide an annual rebate off policy of 100.00 for successive years to those who remain accident free.
What's the typical accident expense ... I'd bet its 2-4K for repairs, plus medical. An annual rebate would pay for itself many times over to them.
Target the youth ... where policy's are already super high. Offer an initial 200.00 annual reduction (for 2 years) in insurance rates to those who pass course. Let auto industry run the courses ( if they so desired ). Would be a homerun for their industry. They make money off course (say 400-500 $) ... to offset the 400.00 savings to [junior/susy] if they are accident free for their first 2 years driving. Then provide an annual rebate off policy of 100.00 for successive years to those who remain accident free.
What's the typical accident expense ... I'd bet its 2-4K for repairs, plus medical. An annual rebate would pay for itself many times over to them.
03-06-2007, 12:32 PM
#182
Emerging Vendor
When I first read this thread, and the other related threads on the other forums, I too was wondering about the safety of the Active Handling System - and therefore the car. But I think we have to keep this in perspective. So far, there is only one documented case (on the forums anyway), Zorvette's incident, that has shown a proven failure of the system. And that incident was likely due to a misconnected plug at Bowling Green.
GM is certainly aware of that problem and has taken some steps to correct it (according to the other forum threads). If there were more documented cases, GM would likely start a recall to at least check the connectors. That's why it is important for incidents like ICU812's issue in this thread to be resolved, rather than simply overlook it. That's also why ICU812 should post his incident on corvettemechanic.com - those Techs have a direct link to GM.
If these are extremely isolated cases, with only one (or two?) documented incident, there is likely no reasonable basis to GM to start a recall. At least they are aware of the problem. The fact that GM got aggressively involved in Zorvette's case and solved the problem was certainly reassuring.
With only one documented case out there, and knowing that GM is aware of it, I know I won't be turning off my Active Handling System for normal driving. And the fact that Spring Mountain Driving School leaves it on gives me even more confidence in it.
GM is certainly aware of that problem and has taken some steps to correct it (according to the other forum threads). If there were more documented cases, GM would likely start a recall to at least check the connectors. That's why it is important for incidents like ICU812's issue in this thread to be resolved, rather than simply overlook it. That's also why ICU812 should post his incident on corvettemechanic.com - those Techs have a direct link to GM.
If these are extremely isolated cases, with only one (or two?) documented incident, there is likely no reasonable basis to GM to start a recall. At least they are aware of the problem. The fact that GM got aggressively involved in Zorvette's case and solved the problem was certainly reassuring.
With only one documented case out there, and knowing that GM is aware of it, I know I won't be turning off my Active Handling System for normal driving. And the fact that Spring Mountain Driving School leaves it on gives me even more confidence in it.
03-06-2007, 12:38 PM
#183
Again ... the private sector would be best way to 'stimulate' attendance at driving courses. Insurance industry needs to offer significant auto policy discounts to those who attend.
Target the youth ... where policy's are already super high. Offer an initial 200.00 annual reduction (for 2 years) in insurance rates to those who pass course. Let auto industry run the courses ( if they so desired ). Would be a homerun for their industry. They make money off course (say 400-500 $) ... to offset the 400.00 savings to [junior/susy] if they are accident free for their first 2 years driving. Then provide an annual rebate off policy of 100.00 for successive years to those who remain accident free.
What's the typical accident expense ... I'd bet its 2-4K for repairs, plus medical. An annual rebate would pay for itself many times over to them.
Target the youth ... where policy's are already super high. Offer an initial 200.00 annual reduction (for 2 years) in insurance rates to those who pass course. Let auto industry run the courses ( if they so desired ). Would be a homerun for their industry. They make money off course (say 400-500 $) ... to offset the 400.00 savings to [junior/susy] if they are accident free for their first 2 years driving. Then provide an annual rebate off policy of 100.00 for successive years to those who remain accident free.
What's the typical accident expense ... I'd bet its 2-4K for repairs, plus medical. An annual rebate would pay for itself many times over to them.
03-06-2007, 12:39 PM
#184
When I first read this thread, and the other related threads on the other forums, I too was wondering about the safety of the Active Handling System - and therefore the car. But I think we have to keep this in perspective. So far, there is only one documented case (on the forums anyway), Zorvette's incident, that has shown a proven failure of the system. And that incident was likely due to a misconnected plug at Bowling Green.
GM is certainly aware of that problem and has taken some steps to correct it (according to the other forum threads). If there were more documented cases, GM would likely start a recall to at least check the connectors. That's why it is important for incidents like ICU812's issue in this thread to be resolved, rather than simply overlook it. That's also why ICU812 should post his incident on corvettemechanic.com - those Techs have a direct link to GM.
If these are extremely isolated cases, with only one (or two?) documented incident, there is likely no reasonable basis to GM to start a recall. At least they are aware of the problem. The fact that GM got aggressively involved in Zorvette's case and solved the problem was certainly reassuring.
With only one documented case out there, and knowing that GM is aware of it, I know I won't be turning off my Active Handling System for normal driving. And the fact that Spring Mountain Driving School leaves it on gives me even more confidence in it.
GM is certainly aware of that problem and has taken some steps to correct it (according to the other forum threads). If there were more documented cases, GM would likely start a recall to at least check the connectors. That's why it is important for incidents like ICU812's issue in this thread to be resolved, rather than simply overlook it. That's also why ICU812 should post his incident on corvettemechanic.com - those Techs have a direct link to GM.
If these are extremely isolated cases, with only one (or two?) documented incident, there is likely no reasonable basis to GM to start a recall. At least they are aware of the problem. The fact that GM got aggressively involved in Zorvette's case and solved the problem was certainly reassuring.
With only one documented case out there, and knowing that GM is aware of it, I know I won't be turning off my Active Handling System for normal driving. And the fact that Spring Mountain Driving School leaves it on gives me even more confidence in it.
.
03-06-2007, 12:52 PM
#185
Safety Car
All it would take would be one state's Governor (using some logic) ... to conference with that state's auto insurance industry ... to make improved auto safety a reality.
Perhaps Arnold in Calif ... could be a trend setter
Perhaps Arnold in Calif ... could be a trend setter
Bend over hand over your wallet.
03-06-2007, 01:03 PM
#188
Le Mans Master
Unfortunately he seems to want to be. Kalifornia with its first in the country anti-Global Warming laws will probably be the first to outlaw Corvettes as we know and love them. We already have crappy gas. That's how they solve problems. 
03-06-2007, 01:04 PM
#189
Safety Car
No, I don't agree that driving ability has declined because of Gov. mandates, and the dramatic reduction in highway deaths and injuries per capita is the best argument in the world for the success of the safety mandates. There is no question that they have been effective as a matter of public policy.
Agreed on training, but how do we "require" people to go?
How many have been to a school like Spring Mountain? I've been to several, including SM, as have you, but we are in a tiny minority. Most people aren't willing to spend $2-3K for such training. It would have to be "required", which would be another mandate that you seem to be arguing against. It's not a question of whether they are run by the private sector or not, it's a question of it being mandated.
Agreed on training, but how do we "require" people to go?
How many have been to a school like Spring Mountain? I've been to several, including SM, as have you, but we are in a tiny minority. Most people aren't willing to spend $2-3K for such training. It would have to be "required", which would be another mandate that you seem to be arguing against. It's not a question of whether they are run by the private sector or not, it's a question of it being mandated.
When I picked up my Z at the Museum in November, I was provided a lot of good informaiton about my car. However of all of that information two things they said were:
1. They strongly recommend that I consider and take a driving course like the one given at Spring Mountain.. (and they provided a Brochure).
2. They said that I should not disable the active handling on my 650 mile journey home.
I was also told that GM is going to provide a driving course in the cost of the 08 models and that for the higher end HP cars, they will require that the course is completed prior to delivery.
I don't know whether this was just something I was told or fact.
03-06-2007, 01:25 PM
#190
Obviously, we are all too painfully aware of botched efforts by the Gov. (or any Gov. anywhere in the world) to fix something. However, you would be hard-pressed to rationally argue that the many Fed Gov. auto safety mandates since the 50's have NOT improved automobile safety.
The same is true in my industry, aviation. We may complain about Federal regulation until we are blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, you'd have to fly every day for 35,000 years to reach the likelihood of dying in a commercial airline accident. 10 times more people fall and die in their bathtubs and showers, every year, and that wasn't always true.
Joke about it all you want, but most Gov safety mandates are examples of major Gov. policy success stories.
The same is true in my industry, aviation. We may complain about Federal regulation until we are blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, you'd have to fly every day for 35,000 years to reach the likelihood of dying in a commercial airline accident. 10 times more people fall and die in their bathtubs and showers, every year, and that wasn't always true.
Joke about it all you want, but most Gov safety mandates are examples of major Gov. policy success stories.
03-06-2007, 01:41 PM
#191
Team Owner
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No, I don't agree that driving ability has declined because of Gov. mandates, and the dramatic reduction in highway deaths and injuries per capita is the best argument in the world for the success of the safety mandates. There is no question that they have been effective as a matter of public policy.
Agreed on training, but how do we "require" people to go?
How many have been to a school like Spring Mountain? I've been to several, including SM, as have you, but we are in a tiny minority. Most people aren't willing to spend $2-3K for such training. It would have to be "required", which would be another mandate that you seem to be arguing against. It's not a question of whether they are run by the private sector or not, it's a question of it being mandated.
Agreed on training, but how do we "require" people to go?
How many have been to a school like Spring Mountain? I've been to several, including SM, as have you, but we are in a tiny minority. Most people aren't willing to spend $2-3K for such training. It would have to be "required", which would be another mandate that you seem to be arguing against. It's not a question of whether they are run by the private sector or not, it's a question of it being mandated.
In the SE US from March to Oct, one could find 3 to 5 different HPDEs EACH and every weekend. PPL just dont know where to look and find these great driving experiences. ( go over to the autocross and road race forum. There is a sticky on top with track schedules - Start there
) Our National Corvette Museum's HPDEs sell out in under 2 hours. For our July 2-3 event at VIR we will have 125 students and 15 or so Chevy Engineers and Project managers as students too.
At $450 for two days with a personal instructor in YOUR corvette, it is a real bargin and huge learning experience.
The May issue of Covette Enthusiast has an artical about the NCM driving schools.
We could do more IF we could get the tracks.
Last edited by AU N EGL; 03-06-2007 at 01:46 PM.
03-06-2007, 06:09 PM
#192
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Obviously, we are all too painfully aware of botched efforts by the Gov. (or any Gov. anywhere in the world) to fix something. However, you would be hard-pressed to rationally argue that the many Fed Gov. auto safety mandates since the 50's have NOT improved automobile safety.
The same is true in my industry, aviation. We may complain about Federal regulation until we are blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, you'd have to fly every day for 35,000 years to reach the likelihood of dying in a commercial airline accident. 10 times more people fall and die in their bathtubs and showers, every year, and that wasn't always true.
Joke about it all you want, but most Gov safety mandates are examples of major Gov. policy success stories.
The same is true in my industry, aviation. We may complain about Federal regulation until we are blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is, you'd have to fly every day for 35,000 years to reach the likelihood of dying in a commercial airline accident. 10 times more people fall and die in their bathtubs and showers, every year, and that wasn't always true.
Joke about it all you want, but most Gov safety mandates are examples of major Gov. policy success stories.
03-06-2007, 06:59 PM
#193
Safety Car
I am not talking about safety.....I'm talking about when the government tries to fix something, they get some of the things right, but they tag on a bunch of other stuff that further hinders progress and we as citizens end up at the short end of the stick!
03-06-2007, 07:26 PM
#195
Safety Car
Usually when government tries to do something good, it produces a result that is un intended. Rather than undoing the first thing and starting over, they add to it by trying to more good by multiplying the first problem with a second problem.
03-06-2007, 07:37 PM
#196
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03-06-2007, 08:43 PM
#197
Vetteship, you ask how we got off on this discussion? It was because of all the ranting and raving about "electronic nannies." They got there as a way for vehicle manufacturers to protect themselves from Gov. intervention, and liability.
The safety mandate/regulation discussion is directly relevant to the thread topic because I can see a time in the near-future, when all these aids will be mandatory, and there won't be a way to turn them off. That is already the case some vehicles.
Many European vehicles have their top speeds electronically-governed. Consider yourselves lucky for the time being.
The only way to preclude that likelihood is for the majority to act responsibly. I'm not holding my breath.
03-07-2007, 01:16 AM
#198
Safety Car
The gov topic is good, but for the time being, I am merely interested in the outcome of the issue at hand. It would be nice to hear some update from the original poster. Maybe this is a long shot, but am I alone in thinking that the circumstances of this accident may not be factual as described originally ? We have no pictures, we have no update from ICU812, we have a super high performance car that started spinning while traveling at a comfortable speed while passing some cars, no ice, no rain, no fog, and a witness that is an off duty cop that just hapened to be there, a policeman handing out a ticket for unsafe lane change, original poster not willing to give GM a chance to investigate due to the time involved, $23k insurance bill, no update if codes were set and what they are. Don't know guys, just dunno 
03-07-2007, 02:17 AM
#199
Emerging Vendor
The gov topic is good, but for the time being, I am merely interested in the outcome of the issue at hand. It would be nice to hear some update from the original poster. Maybe this is a long shot, but am I alone in thinking that the circumstances of this accident may not be factual as described originally ? We have no pictures, we have no update from ICU812, we have a super high performance car that started spinning while traveling at a comfortable speed while passing some cars, no ice, no rain, no fog, and a witness that is an off duty cop that just hapened to be there, a policeman handing out a ticket for unsafe lane change, original poster not willing to give GM a chance to investigate due to the time involved, $23k insurance bill, no update if codes were set and what they are. Don't know guys, just dunno
And what's really strange is the apparent lack of interest in the cause of the accident. I know if I was in an accident like that and I felt it wasn't my fault, I would be doing everything possible to find out the cause.
The first post sounded like he joined the forum to ask if others may help him understand the cause. But Zorvette provided some information and recommended he post on corvettemechanic.com for additional help - but again, no response. Definitely strange.
One other thing I wonder about. When he posted on 2/23, he said the accident happened three days ago. And he already had a damage estimate of $24K. Doesn't that seems like an awfully quick insurance estimate?
Lots of questions and no answers.
03-07-2007, 06:57 AM
#200
Safety Car
I fixed it for you.
Vetteship, you ask how we got off on this discussion? It was because of all the ranting and raving about "electronic nannies." They got there as a way for vehicle manufacturers to protect themselves from Gov. intervention, and liability.
The safety mandate/regulation discussion is directly relevant to the thread topic because I can see a time in the near-future, when all these aids will be mandatory, and there won't be a way to turn them off. That is already the case some vehicles.
Many European vehicles have their top speeds electronically-governed. Consider yourselves lucky for the time being.
The only way to preclude that likelihood is for the majority to act responsibly. I'm not holding my breath.
Vetteship, you ask how we got off on this discussion? It was because of all the ranting and raving about "electronic nannies." They got there as a way for vehicle manufacturers to protect themselves from Gov. intervention, and liability.
The safety mandate/regulation discussion is directly relevant to the thread topic because I can see a time in the near-future, when all these aids will be mandatory, and there won't be a way to turn them off. That is already the case some vehicles.
Many European vehicles have their top speeds electronically-governed. Consider yourselves lucky for the time being.
The only way to preclude that likelihood is for the majority to act responsibly. I'm not holding my breath.
However, the bottom line is that ownership of this beast comes with a huge amount of personal responsibility.. which all of us who own these fabulous machines must realize each time we take it out on the roads.
....and if some of us refuse to accept that responsibility, there are others out there who will accept it for us..