[Z06] Forum Question: Accident
#161
Yes, it would be helpful. However, I view both this and the possibility of being struck by lightning tomorrow, as highly unlikely.
Yes, faults do occur, and sometimes electrical harnesses aren't connected properly. If you read that account, GM concluded it was a connector problem not a system software "glitch."
Yes, faults do occur, and sometimes electrical harnesses aren't connected properly. If you read that account, GM concluded it was a connector problem not a system software "glitch."
#162
#163
Emerging Vendor
Yes, it would be helpful. However, I view both this and the possibility of being struck by lightning tomorrow, as highly unlikely.
Yes, faults do occur, and sometimes electrical harnesses aren't connected properly. If you read that account, GM concluded it was a connector problem not a system software "glitch."
Yes, faults do occur, and sometimes electrical harnesses aren't connected properly. If you read that account, GM concluded it was a connector problem not a system software "glitch."
"It is located in the left front engine area on a bracket in front of the engine.Also keep it in mind I think it was more of a component issue (ebcm) than a connection issue.Which would have been first on my list to replace for the problem.I know what they said but you also notice they replaced the ebcm as well.which was the correction me and Chick had decided on at first when the problem was reported.I am a stand alone type of tech i do not consult before i take action.I figure after a customer puts out 70 plus grand fast action should take place with any problem."
(Chick is the other Master Tech, who correctly diagnosed the problem area of Zorvette's incident.)
As at least one other reader said, we have probably beat this subject to death without any more information (codes) from ICU812. Without those codes, just about anything could have caused ICU812's accident.
#164
Emerging Vendor
Actually, (if I'm quoting Zorvette accurately) the codes were first correctly diagnosed by the Technicians at corvettemechanic.com, but the diagnosis was either the yaw sensor or the EBCM. The Technicians wanted the dealer to replace both parts, but the dealer only replaced the yaw sensor. After the last incident (a 720 on the interstate), the GM engineers flew out and replaced the EBCM and found the connector to it (not at the steering wheel) not pushed in properly.
#166
Thanks Kawal.....very informative.
#167
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2005
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So it turned out to be the wiring connection. Which means the car itself is to blame for the accident.
Is the connection a bad design or a workmanship issue form the factory?
Is the connection a bad design or a workmanship issue form the factory?
#168
Dan, not in the incident that started this thread. We don't have any info.
Apparently, there is one documented case (ZORVETTE) in a C6 of a bad EBCM and/or connector. It was posted on another forum (link somewhere above).
Apparently, there is one documented case (ZORVETTE) in a C6 of a bad EBCM and/or connector. It was posted on another forum (link somewhere above).
#169
Le Mans Master
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Does this connection have anything to do with the steering wheel harness?
Mine was repaired after having the service message and it has been fine since.
#170
Safety Car
There have also been some isolated problems with the A/H in C5 vettes ... that caused some accidents / close calls.
I recall reading 3-4 threads on forum about these events in the last several yrs. I once was a big fan of A/H ... but, over time am increasingly having doubts.
There is no substitute for driver input. Having the A/H -T/C on can allow one to develop sloppy driver skills. When we race ... we usually turn it off anyways.
IMO ... its better to know how your car will react under various conditions from 'consistent' driving skills learned over time in cars.
Going back and forth between on/off settings..... does not give one that consistency.
Especially disconcerting however is to find yourself unexpectedly fighting a computer gone berserk. Now thats a scary prospect that I don't wish to risk ... even at lightning strike probabilities.
I recall reading 3-4 threads on forum about these events in the last several yrs. I once was a big fan of A/H ... but, over time am increasingly having doubts.
There is no substitute for driver input. Having the A/H -T/C on can allow one to develop sloppy driver skills. When we race ... we usually turn it off anyways.
IMO ... its better to know how your car will react under various conditions from 'consistent' driving skills learned over time in cars.
Going back and forth between on/off settings..... does not give one that consistency.
Especially disconcerting however is to find yourself unexpectedly fighting a computer gone berserk. Now thats a scary prospect that I don't wish to risk ... even at lightning strike probabilities.
#171
OK, I'm a strong believer in personal choice.
But, if the entire population of Corvette drivers behaved as you do, I suspect the car would be "uninsurable," and the only way around the problem would be to design it so it couldn't be disabled by the driver.
I'd hate to see that, or maybe I wouldn't given the relatively large skill deficit in the majority of the population.................
But, if the entire population of Corvette drivers behaved as you do, I suspect the car would be "uninsurable," and the only way around the problem would be to design it so it couldn't be disabled by the driver.
I'd hate to see that, or maybe I wouldn't given the relatively large skill deficit in the majority of the population.................
#172
Safety Car
OK, I'm a strong believer in personal choice.
But, if the entire population of Corvette drivers behaved as you do, I suspect the car would be "uninsurable," and the only way around the problem would be to design it so it couldn't be disabled by the driver.
I'd hate to see that, or maybe I wouldn't given the relatively large skill deficit in the majority of the population.................
But, if the entire population of Corvette drivers behaved as you do, I suspect the car would be "uninsurable," and the only way around the problem would be to design it so it couldn't be disabled by the driver.
I'd hate to see that, or maybe I wouldn't given the relatively large skill deficit in the majority of the population.................
Not every federal safety mandate is good in all situations. The driver still needs to think.
Gov. pressured cig manufactures to do filters on smokes. What happens ... in some cases a 1 pack/day smoker will become a 2 pack smoker to compensate for reduced nicotine hit to the brain. Net result on that smoker's health ... probably a wash, ... but RJ Reynolds makes more in profit off them.
Often depends on your/their political mindset .... liberal vs conservative.
Often the American way is to mandate rather than educate. Thanks GM for giving us the choice
#173
Drifting
There is no substitute for driver input. Having the A/H -T/C on can allow one to develop sloppy driver skills. ........
IMO ... its better to know how your car will react under various conditions from 'consistent' driving skills learned over time in cars.
Going back and forth between on/off settings..... does not give one that consistency.
But Foosh is right, if we didn't have these control for some, there could be a higher number of incidents.
#174
Engineering gives us some amazing safety aids. Some are active (seat belts), some are passive (air bags) ... now converted to active (passenger side) due to injuries they caused in small children/infants.
Not every federal safety mandate is good in all situations. The driver still needs to think.
Gov. pressured cig manufactures to do filters on smokes. What happens ... in some cases a 1 pack/day smoker will become a 2 pack smoker to compensate for reduced nicotine hit to the brain. Net result on that smoker's health ... probably a wash, ... but RJ Reynolds makes more in profit off them.
Often depends on your/their political mindset .... liberal vs conservative.
Often the American way is to mandate rather than educate. Thanks GM for giving us the choice
Not every federal safety mandate is good in all situations. The driver still needs to think.
Gov. pressured cig manufactures to do filters on smokes. What happens ... in some cases a 1 pack/day smoker will become a 2 pack smoker to compensate for reduced nicotine hit to the brain. Net result on that smoker's health ... probably a wash, ... but RJ Reynolds makes more in profit off them.
Often depends on your/their political mindset .... liberal vs conservative.
Often the American way is to mandate rather than educate. Thanks GM for giving us the choice
Question: Why do you think these systems evolved in the first place? Answer: A large percentage of people don't act responsibly in high-performance cars (or any cars for that matter), and don't have adequate skills.
If it becomes apparent that a large group of people are turning them off on a routine basis and having accidents, then the choice will be taken away.....count on it, and it's probably just a matter of time anyway.
How would you propose we educate the "unwashed masses" unless it's mandated. Do you think "voluntary" education is the solution. If so, I have a bridge to offer you at a reasonable price.
#175
Safety Car
I think that it is clear, if we give the choice to goverment, they will take it away from us, the users... Obviously, GM wants their customers to have that freedom.. but when the govnerment ties their hands.. that is always it.
Therefore, a little prudence goes a long way to avoid the tyranny that government always introduces to the mix...
#176
We will only have the choice as long as people use it responsibly.
Question: Why do you think these systems evolved in the first place? Answer: A large percentage of people don't act responsibly in high-performance cars (or any cars for that matter), and don't have adequate skills.
If it becomes apparent that a large group of people are turning them off on a routine basis and having accidents, then the choice will be taken away.....count on it, and it's probably just a matter of time anyway.
How would you propose we educate the "unwashed masses" unless it's mandated. Do you think "voluntary" education is the solution. If so, I have a bridge to offer you at a reasonable price.
Question: Why do you think these systems evolved in the first place? Answer: A large percentage of people don't act responsibly in high-performance cars (or any cars for that matter), and don't have adequate skills.
If it becomes apparent that a large group of people are turning them off on a routine basis and having accidents, then the choice will be taken away.....count on it, and it's probably just a matter of time anyway.
How would you propose we educate the "unwashed masses" unless it's mandated. Do you think "voluntary" education is the solution. If so, I have a bridge to offer you at a reasonable price.
#177
Safety Car
We know which mode is more fun
Glad to see you returned to discuss topic of day
Actually, it was someone else you were arguing axle weight effects with.
#178
Drifting
You guys that track your cars every weekend should try a lap without pushing the button and see what your time difference is...I'm curious. I have never tracked my car but I know taking common corners fast I give it more throttle and have more confidence with the nanny on. With it off I go slower because I know I'm going to have to control the inevitable drift...which is fun as well.
#179
Safety Car
Question: Why do you think these systems evolved in the first place? Answer: A large percentage of people don't act responsibly in high-performance cars (or any cars for that matter), and don't have adequate skills.
If it becomes apparent that a large group of people are turning them off on a routine basis and having accidents, then the choice will be taken away.....count on it, and it's probably just a matter of time anyway.
How would you propose we educate the "unwashed masses" unless it's mandated. Do you think "voluntary" education is the solution. If so, I have a bridge to offer you at a reasonable price.
The worst drivers by far are the teens and geezer groups. Lets give grandma a vette with A/H ... Or lets give Junior a Viper ... which has happened in quite a few cases ...
Yes ... education/experience is always the key. Everyone needs to attend driving school before getting their license. We need more Spring Mountains in every state ... and lower-level schools for the masses But, let private sector run them ... not the gov.
#180
No, I don't agree that driving ability has declined because of Gov. mandates, and the dramatic reduction in highway deaths and injuries per capita is the best argument in the world for the success of the safety mandates. There is no question that they have been effective as a matter of public policy.
Agreed on training, but how do we "require" people to go?
How many have been to a school like Spring Mountain? I've been to several, including SM, as have you, but we are in a tiny minority. Most people aren't willing to spend $2-3K for such training. It would have to be "required", which would be another mandate that you seem to be arguing against. It's not a question of whether they are run by the private sector or not, it's a question of it being mandated.
Agreed on training, but how do we "require" people to go?
How many have been to a school like Spring Mountain? I've been to several, including SM, as have you, but we are in a tiny minority. Most people aren't willing to spend $2-3K for such training. It would have to be "required", which would be another mandate that you seem to be arguing against. It's not a question of whether they are run by the private sector or not, it's a question of it being mandated.
Last edited by Foosh; 03-06-2007 at 12:08 PM.