Halltech

We finally got back from our dyno testing today in Elmhurst IL. We were invited to a dyno session that was grateously paid for by Patrick, the ower of DigitalCorvettes.com

Our Killer Bee did well on the chassis 248 Dynojet as I knew it would. I was simply shocked however by Patrick's 2002 Z06 with the Halltech Stage 1 onboard, and LG Long Tube Headers. Would you believe 393 RWHP/371 ft. lbs torque from this formidable C5? Dang!

He also has our Tunnel Port onboard, and just got back from the 1 Lap of America Cannonball challenge. Out of 84 (I think) race cars entered, he did very well, and came in 10th in the drag race session, only .2 sec. behind the Hennessey Twin Turbo 1000 HP Viper.

Back to the dyno pull on our car.

Programming was not changed during the 5 pulls. SAE correction factor 1.00 for all 5 pulls. Stock air intake system was dynoed in the middle of our session.

We dynoed three warm-up pulls with the Killer Bee, then our stock airbox with the stock filter onboard for pull 4. Peak RWHP was 505.61 at 140.00 mph in 4th gear and a peak torque of 474 ft. lbs. The stock airbox benefited from our tuning, since we have shut off TM and have our Stage 3 tuning onboard. The air fuel ratio was .4 point leaner which helped the power on the stock setup.

The 5th pull was back to the Killer Bee AAIS. The KB dynoed 517.46 RWHP at the same speed (peak HP) and 483 ft. lbs tq.
+12.6 RWHP and +10 RWT

I'll post the graph later on my website at www.CorvetteLS7.com

The goal of smashing the F1 has been accomplished in my estimation.
The average increase was between 9 to 10 RWHP over stock and 8 to 12 ft. lbs torque over stock.

Jim Hall

Zred06

That was it? 9-10 RWHP on a heavily modified car? Doesn't seem very impressive to be honest.

DankaZ

Luweegy

You don't know till you have it. I got it and it made a huge differance over the F1.

UBNZO6D

Am I checking your site correctly, $529.00 for this item...I need a intake for mine, please convince me why I should choose yours or any of the competitors...

Thanks in advance

Greg

Halltech

What competitors would that be?

Our F1 only made 8 RWHP/6 ft. lbs more than stock. Nothing dynoed by an independent dyno has beat those numbers until today.

Jim

UBNZO6D

Seriously, you have competitors and I'm sure we all know who they are...I had great success with you Stinger on my C5 and that is why I'm considering the KB...Is this price correct?

Greg

2KZ28CAM

I think you should PM some other members that have bought it, and make the decision for yourself. Luweegy would be a great place to start.

Not to mention, the history of the efforts and rationale to bring this product to the Z06 community are well-documented in other threads. You may want to read up on the other threads regarding this product.

kelp

I guess I don't get it. I redyno'd my baseline and F1 filter to be sure my VCU settled in everything and netted +12 HP and +15 ft/lb torque RW.

Is this comparing the Killer Bee over the F1 or over stock, because the F1, according to my measurements, appears better.

Edit
Sorry, bad math. That's +7 RWHP, +16 RWTQ with F1. Of course this is peak, did not compare areas under curve. But it's a start for comparisons.

UBNZO6D

I am well aware of Jim's efforts and appreciate them very much...He has developed the KB at considerable expense and certainly time...Why would I have to PM someone when this forum is for discussion...I just want to know if I am reading the price correctly...Jim has been the marketing king for this product and has kept us all very much informed about his progress... I'm curious why I should buy this over his competitors..I feel that is a fair question...It appears to have some gains but at considerable expense or the so called Vette Tax...His competitor has been lambasted for about the same price, so I want to know why I should buy his...

Greg

2KZ28CAM

Yes, thats a very fair question. I misread your knowledge of the history and development of the product.

My suggestion to PM current owners only meant you could probably gather more information faster that way in terms of details and overall satisfaction.

I'm sure the discussion will continue.

Halltech

Greg, that is a fair question. I promise to answer that tomorrow. There is a good reason. HP and Tq. are just one part of the whole.

JDRacing

I continue to be puzzled by the focus on dyno results as the measurement of effectiveness of an AIS. The purpose of such systems is to transmit cool/dense ambient air to the intake as efficiently as possible with little, if any, temperature increase from ambient to intake air temperature. Denser air makes more power than rarified air, with appropriate adjustments to fuel to keep the ratio near stoich (through jetting or MAF maps). Ask any two stroke engine tuner or drag racer. Lower intake air temperature, and you make more power than you do with higher intake temperatures. Maybe I missed a lecture somewhere, but that's my understanding of why people should be buying these things. So, how can any AIS prove itself to be make more power than a stock system sitting stationary on a dyno? Chances are, with the hood open and the fan blowing, they're both sending the same temperature air to the intake manifold. What you're really measuring, is which air filter is more restrictive, and probably not much more.

Sitting in a dyno shop/room, with little air flow and therefore little opportunity to lower air temperatures, I don't see how the KB dyno numbers could be better than a stock AIS with the stock restrictive air filter removed. What Jim's tests today tell me is that his filter sitting on the end of the KB flows a hell of a lot more air than a stock filter. In fact, something on the order of the F1 race filter, with much better filtering characteristics.

The video Jim posted showing the speed with which the KB lowers the IAT from 110+ degrees (from sitting at a stoplight idling) to 65 degrees or so (once he's moving at a brisk pace) says a lot more about why I'm buying the KB than a series of static dyno pulls. Less than a minute and the KB reduced a high IAT to ambient. That efficiency in bringing about a large decrease in intake air temperature, and thus increase in air density, is what makes power, and in my view, why you buy a KB.

The real question is, how much quicker/better/more efficient is the KB over stock in reducing IAT from high underhood temperatures to lower ambient air temperatures at any given speed. Looking at the video, the KB did a very good job of that. But you can't meaure that on a dyno unless it happens to be sitting in a temperature-controlled wind tunnel.

That's why race teams (at least the national championship motorcycle race team I tuned for) relied on radar gun speeds rather than dynos to determine the effect of changes, particularly when testing intakes. Dynos are useful tools for many things, but in my view the efficiency (and thus effictiveness) of an AIS is not one of them.

05C6spdvert

It looks cool, but for the price you better throw in a decal of the pissed off bee.

Halltech

Here is our first dyno. There will be more. Pull 1,2, and 3 were the Killer Bee AAIS. Pull 4 was with the stock LS7 AIS with the stock filter; Pull 5 was back to the Killer Bee AAIS.

The torque was up +11, but spiked on the graph in so many places that I did not graph it. I have the charts on www.CorvetteLS7.com

JDRacing

I don't doubt this for a minute--because the AAIS reduces IAT much more quickly and below that of the stock AIS (no matter what filter the stock one is carrying), right?

Halltech

The price is $499.00 for forum members after you Register. The pricing automatically changes then when you sign in.

Jim

427 C6Z

And you wonder why I call you Doctor J...

deereman

Copied from Post #12 - "What you saw was the effect of leaner air fuel ratios that normally disappear with relearn. We saw the K*N dyno 15 more than stock in the initial dynos posted here, then when the car was redynoed after relearn it dynoed the same as stock with no increase in RWHP."

Question - Jim, based on your statement above, without springing for a tune, what keeps the KillerBee from "relearning" air fuel ratios like the K*N? OR, does it do the same thing?

RGT

Gregg
I am going to A&A on June 4th to have AHR headers installed. I expect to receive Jim's KillerBee UPS delivery today. I will have it installed by the time I have the AHR's installed. I already have the Halltech stage 1 tune now, and I am very happy with it. That's the extent of my mods. I will let you know the dyno results after the headers are installed. Your numbers look pretty good to me. With an intake, you should be over 500RWHP.
Roger