O7zeeO6

I'm in the Information Technology field and currently taking my masters in the field. One of my instructors mentioned about this threat that I've never hear of before, and I just thought I might want to share it to everyone in the CF.

Apparently, there is this scanner that scans frequencies given out by key FOB's and once this is stored, then all it has to do is to emit the same frequency thus giving access to whatever the key FOB was able to do.

The scenario how this will be implemented is a person with the scanner approaches a person which he knows has the keyless entry FOB in his/her possession and while keeping the owner pre-occupied the scanner goes to work.

My question is, is GM or anyone aware of this, if so what is being done about it?

OregonC6

well, this is one reason they invented car theft insurance.

mousecatcher

it is a known problem. almost all wireless technologies are susceptible to this kind of attack.

O7zeeO6

So I guess there is no counter defense against this threat, and we just hope that the crook operating in the area doesn't have this equipment?

I'm not sure if the convenience of not having to insert a key to the ignition or the door is worth this trouble. I would hate to find my car missing and my insurance will not cover the damages since no forced entry is discovered, thus I have to suffer from all the consequences.

Is there a way to dis-able the FOB and replace it with a remote control key?

bgrant_12002

I'll bet you could use one of these keychain remote controls (cat rc-11) from all electronics , like people are using to control the butterfly valve in the exhaust, but use it for the starter. Seems like maybe a forum member posted this earlier......so it's not my original idea.

dgdoc

While it is possible to build a scanner/detector/transmitter to do this, it's not quite as easy as you stated.

The RF locking systems used by GM and others are more complex than simply emitting a single frequency and presto, the doors are unlocked, etc.

Let's leave it at that rather than expose any more details.

Hope you sleep a little better....

O7zeeO6

It is more than just a remote control. It scans the frequency that the FOB emits without the knowledge of the owner, then mimics it sot hat the car's computer thinks it is the FOB.

ayousef

people are not that smart in Dubai, so were on the safe side I guess lol.

You made a good point though!!

crease-guard

As stated before, it's more complex than emitting a single RF frequency and being able to scan and then reemit said frequency. It's not that simple in these systems.

Jay

O7zeeO6

I understand its not that easy and simple. But the bad part is, this equipment exist, so don't be surprised if your car is not where you left it, that's all.

Shark Racer

Don't waste your time putting on the tin foil hat, you better get to the garage and keep an eye on your car, mang.

J HEBERT

I have been in the Locksmith/safe field since 1986, yes, the equipment exists......anyone w/ access to it (let alone OWN it) already makes enough money to stay honest and not steal your vette

AtlBlkZ06

For every security system, there exists a way to defeat it.

The point is to increase the workload required to exceed the threshold of the target group that might steal the car.

As a thief, with that level of technology in my hand, I'd rather go after Porsches and Ferraris, not measly <100k Vettes.

I'd be more worried about damage from lawn mowers, and hail, rock chips flying on the road, acid rain, kittens on the hood....hell just enjoy the car already

fiveodude

Exactly...Gathering a frequency is simple. You can pick up a frequency scanner for $10. Knowing the encryption/decryption algorithm is another story. It's just like capturing encrypted IP packets....(SSL)..I can capture them, but depending on the encryption strength, it might take years to dicipher....

Foosh

It could be worse. A hacker could gain access to your PC and steal your identity. Stealing my key fob frequency code is a rather minor worry in comparison.

carnutsx2

typically security systems use a rolling code- it just doesn't send the same signal back that was the technology used in the 80's. With the increase in popularity of security systems and the lack of bandwidth to create multiple channels manufactures came up with a security system that sends and encrypted code and most will go into a lock down mode if they see the same code repeated or a rash of wrong codes. For years there have been wives tales about scanners or code generators the just run through all codes from A to Z . Bottom line is if a person were that smart they would be hacking computer systems. Car theft is a lot of work and most thieves are lazy hence there chosen profession. In my area most car theft is from drug users- if they had an expensive scanner they would have sold it long ago for meth.

Its the rock ,crow bar and a roll deck truck you need to be afraid of.

TeddyFreddy

A simple scanner won't do. There is strong encryption involved and it takes lots of time to decrypt the codes.
Discussed previously here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1799813

z06Bigbird

Do a search here or on Google for stolen catalytic converters. $100 a pop. 10 minutes per converter; trucks are simple because they are elevated; this is great time of year for converter thieves because there are numbers numbers of cars in parking garages, malls, churches, etc.

2 per day, 5 days per week, $100 each = $1,000 per week. $50k yr
4 per day, 5 days per week, $100 each = $2,000 per week. $100k yr
10 per day, 5 days per week, $100 ea = $5,000 per week. $250k yr

Not bad for part time job. (Junk yards pay about $100 each.)

Less risk than selling lux cars.

O7zeeO6

Thanks for pasting this thread. It is a more realistic assessment of this threat which is much better than hearing a general claim regarding the issue.

From what I'm hearing so far, this is not yet a widespread problem in the Corvette community, thus GM probably will not spend any of its resources to try to stay ahead of these car thieves. I'd hate to be part of the statistics figure before GM is forced to develop a security upgrade. The price to get one of these sophisticated scanners is probably keeping them exclusively to those thieves who goes after more expensive cars, like the new ZR1 for example. But I think that its only a matter of time when these will become more available and affordable as the number of cars with keyless security increases since as with all prices of technology dependent equipment, they will only get cheaper with time.

The intent of this thread is definitely not to incite any kind of panic or make people worry, as some members seem to imply. I'm just trying to understand what the level of the real threat is and not over react to a news due to lack of understanding it real implications.

Although it is true that no car can be made theft proof, animal instincts dictates that with all other variables being alike, things which are easier to steal will have higher chances that it will be stolen. Knowing the existence of such security threat, installation of additional security devices might then be warranted to mainly serve as a theft deterrent by making it a "harder target," causing car thieves move to "softer targets" as we call it in the military.

fstyloz

In addition to my regular policy I have full coverage by Smith & Wesson