[Z06] Best bang for the buck LS7 H/C/I package
09-20-2023, 08:50 PM
#1
Best bang for the buck LS7 H/C/I package
Hi all,
I'm in the market for a Z06. Scared shitless of the engine problems. Still considering multiple options (think engine swap), but here I'm focussing on getting the most out of the LS7, since it is a mayor selling point of the car. I'm in Europe, there are very few shops here compared to the US, and it's a lot harder to find reviews, because it is such a niche market. I will likely get something pre-assembled in the US, so the bare minimum of work has to be done over here, but that is not set in stone. Parts will have to come from the US anyway. Since there's a good amount of work involved, I'd like to tackle head, cam and intake in 1 go and get it over with.
Goal of the car is to use it as a weekend warrior and road course car. Reliability is a mayor concern. I want to avoid having to check the heads every few 1000 miles. More power is better, but spending 10k for 10 hp is not very efficient. Based on my research here, a lot of "fixed" heads seem to fail anyway, even from reputable shops. Even been reading that the issue might exist with all OEM castings. With that in mind, I prefer to play it safe, and would look at an aftermarket casting.
For the heads, I'm leaning to Trick Flow heads as used by Mamo Motorsport. They have a different casting and he gets really good results with them. Tony's package looks very good, but is rather expensive and I suspect (hence this topic) the "stock" items that he uses might already give ~90% of the result. If money was unlimited and shipping/tax wasn't so silly, things would be different, but now it requires a bit more work.
Intake: the MSD Atomic Air intake seems to do well in high power NA builds.
Cam: no idea
Other stuff I might be missing: no idea
What would you suggest?
EDIT: Important: pump gas. No E85 available here. Premium fuel here is should be the same as US 93 grade.
I'm in the market for a Z06. Scared shitless of the engine problems. Still considering multiple options (think engine swap), but here I'm focussing on getting the most out of the LS7, since it is a mayor selling point of the car. I'm in Europe, there are very few shops here compared to the US, and it's a lot harder to find reviews, because it is such a niche market. I will likely get something pre-assembled in the US, so the bare minimum of work has to be done over here, but that is not set in stone. Parts will have to come from the US anyway. Since there's a good amount of work involved, I'd like to tackle head, cam and intake in 1 go and get it over with.
Goal of the car is to use it as a weekend warrior and road course car. Reliability is a mayor concern. I want to avoid having to check the heads every few 1000 miles. More power is better, but spending 10k for 10 hp is not very efficient. Based on my research here, a lot of "fixed" heads seem to fail anyway, even from reputable shops. Even been reading that the issue might exist with all OEM castings. With that in mind, I prefer to play it safe, and would look at an aftermarket casting.
For the heads, I'm leaning to Trick Flow heads as used by Mamo Motorsport. They have a different casting and he gets really good results with them. Tony's package looks very good, but is rather expensive and I suspect (hence this topic) the "stock" items that he uses might already give ~90% of the result. If money was unlimited and shipping/tax wasn't so silly, things would be different, but now it requires a bit more work.
Intake: the MSD Atomic Air intake seems to do well in high power NA builds.
Cam: no idea
Other stuff I might be missing: no idea
What would you suggest?
EDIT: Important: pump gas. No E85 available here. Premium fuel here is should be the same as US 93 grade.
Last edited by Terror Factor; 09-20-2023 at 09:08 PM.
09-20-2023, 11:59 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
You can buy a full top end package from Race Proven Motorsports. That includes heads, cam, and intake. I'm sure they include gaskets and pushrods and such. If not, they can get you some as well. Pretty much a one stop shop.
09-21-2023, 06:09 AM
#3
Hi all,
I'm in the market for a Z06. Scared shitless of the engine problems. Still considering multiple options (think engine swap), but here I'm focussing on getting the most out of the LS7, since it is a mayor selling point of the car. I'm in Europe, there are very few shops here compared to the US, and it's a lot harder to find reviews, because it is such a niche market. I will likely get something pre-assembled in the US, so the bare minimum of work has to be done over here, but that is not set in stone. Parts will have to come from the US anyway. Since there's a good amount of work involved, I'd like to tackle head, cam and intake in 1 go and get it over with.
Goal of the car is to use it as a weekend warrior and road course car. Reliability is a mayor concern. I want to avoid having to check the heads every few 1000 miles. More power is better, but spending 10k for 10 hp is not very efficient. Based on my research here, a lot of "fixed" heads seem to fail anyway, even from reputable shops. Even been reading that the issue might exist with all OEM castings. With that in mind, I prefer to play it safe, and would look at an aftermarket casting.
For the heads, I'm leaning to Trick Flow heads as used by Mamo Motorsport. They have a different casting and he gets really good results with them. Tony's package looks very good, but is rather expensive and I suspect (hence this topic) the "stock" items that he uses might already give ~90% of the result. If money was unlimited and shipping/tax wasn't so silly, things would be different, but now it requires a bit more work.
Intake: the MSD Atomic Air intake seems to do well in high power NA builds.
Cam: no idea
Other stuff I might be missing: no idea
What would you suggest?
EDIT: Important: pump gas. No E85 available here. Premium fuel here is should be the same as US 93 grade.
I'm in the market for a Z06. Scared shitless of the engine problems. Still considering multiple options (think engine swap), but here I'm focussing on getting the most out of the LS7, since it is a mayor selling point of the car. I'm in Europe, there are very few shops here compared to the US, and it's a lot harder to find reviews, because it is such a niche market. I will likely get something pre-assembled in the US, so the bare minimum of work has to be done over here, but that is not set in stone. Parts will have to come from the US anyway. Since there's a good amount of work involved, I'd like to tackle head, cam and intake in 1 go and get it over with.
Goal of the car is to use it as a weekend warrior and road course car. Reliability is a mayor concern. I want to avoid having to check the heads every few 1000 miles. More power is better, but spending 10k for 10 hp is not very efficient. Based on my research here, a lot of "fixed" heads seem to fail anyway, even from reputable shops. Even been reading that the issue might exist with all OEM castings. With that in mind, I prefer to play it safe, and would look at an aftermarket casting.
For the heads, I'm leaning to Trick Flow heads as used by Mamo Motorsport. They have a different casting and he gets really good results with them. Tony's package looks very good, but is rather expensive and I suspect (hence this topic) the "stock" items that he uses might already give ~90% of the result. If money was unlimited and shipping/tax wasn't so silly, things would be different, but now it requires a bit more work.
Intake: the MSD Atomic Air intake seems to do well in high power NA builds.
Cam: no idea
Other stuff I might be missing: no idea
What would you suggest?
EDIT: Important: pump gas. No E85 available here. Premium fuel here is should be the same as US 93 grade.
Based on what your looking for my Stg 1 heads fit the bill perfectly.....they flow over 400 CFM in a port that is actually smaller in volume than an unported factory head (so big gains in flow and airspeed which is one of the reasons they work so well).
They are 100% CNC ported.....come with lightweight custom Ferrea hollow stem stainless intake valves and a solid stem exhaust (both valves are light and weigh around 100 grams). They are equipped with dual valvesprings and titanium retainers that are rated for .640 lift and I offer other spring packages if required. The pricing on my Stg 1 heads also includes cc'ing and milling the chambers to our target volume to maximize your compression ratio based on the fuel quality you will use and your application.
Its an affordable turn key solution and you still have your OEM heads to sell which should help cover a third or so of the purchase price of the far more efficient and effective aftermarket castings.
Its also imperative to upgrade your rockers to a roller style rocker arm and Im a big fan of the Yella Terra Ultralites which are also very affordable and they simply work great.
I have used them on 95% of ALL my LS builds over the last two decades (LS1, LS3, and LS7 platforms) and have literally hundreds of customers out there successfully running them including my own LS powered projects as well
Note a BIG part of the OEM problem is attributed to the OEM rocker design which scrubs and sideloads the valve stems and valve guides creating the hour glass shaped wear that leads so many people to have failed the "wiggle" test.
At some point that wear worsens and reduces performance from poor valve seal and increased oil consumption from the excessive clearance. Left unchecked if the wear gets really bad it can contribute to valve failure as well especially on the very fragile OEM exhaust valve
Heads and rocker upgrade is a must if your looking to truly sidestep the OEM LS7 valvetrain issues
A custom cam to compliment the package is always recommended and even a very mild cam optimized to take advantage of the new flow numbers my heads offer can provide substantial gains in performance without negatively affecting drivability and even pass smog if that is required.
Of course you can get more aggressive should you choose to.....it really just depends on what your goals are for the package.....every cam I design for my customer is aimed at optimizing his goals for the car and how aggressive or mild he is looking to be.
A ported MSD is simply a no brainer from the standpoint of power per dollar.....for under two thousand dollars you get a bolt on mod that would add 35 RWHP even with a milder combo and over 40 at the tire with a more aggressive camshaft profile.
Its very difficult to find that type of performance for so little money. Most mods cost $75 to $100 a pony.....this is literally half that and it really helps round out the performance potential of the upgrades
Those four items would be my recommendation but the two really important items to change from the standpoint of sidestepping all the OEM valvetrain issues like I mentioned above is the aftermarket more efficient head design coupled with swapping out the OEM rockers.
The cam and manifold upgrade is mostly to add power and potentially a little more personality to your Z06 but neither are really necessary if your just looking for reliability enhancements and peace of mind
I suggest you reach out to me via email or phone and we can discuss this situation and what your looking to accomplish in more detail.
Regards,
Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 09-21-2023 at 05:42 PM.
09-21-2023, 03:10 PM
#6
I'll say this. I've had 2 LS 427s in my C5. First had AFR 225s (designed by Tony) on it, as they were the only aftermarket heads available then, in 2005. The current 427 has LS7 heads on it. Current combo makes about 35 more whp than the 225 headed combo. That is the ONLY place the current combo holds any advantage. The smaller ported 225 headed version felt way faster, and got 25+mpg. If I'd have run DRs or slicks, the earlier combo would've been a 10 second car. It ran 11s@125+mph in the 1/4 on PS2s, in an A4. Tonys new setup, with a smaller port than the LS7, with more flow.....Having your cake, and eating ALL of it yourself, too!!! Smaller port with more flow is damn hard to do.....
09-21-2023, 03:18 PM
#7
I’m pretty happy with my Mamo package. There’s something to be said with an entire package put together instead of a build piecemealed together. The results of the dyno’s don’t lie.
09-21-2023, 07:18 PM
#8
Drifting
Hi all,
I'm in the market for a Z06. Scared shitless of the engine problems. Still considering multiple options (think engine swap), but here I'm focussing on getting the most out of the LS7, since it is a mayor selling point of the car. I'm in Europe, there are very few shops here compared to the US, and it's a lot harder to find reviews, because it is such a niche market. I will likely get something pre-assembled in the US, so the bare minimum of work has to be done over here, but that is not set in stone. Parts will have to come from the US anyway. Since there's a good amount of work involved, I'd like to tackle head, cam and intake in 1 go and get it over with.
Goal of the car is to use it as a weekend warrior and road course car. Reliability is a mayor concern. I want to avoid having to check the heads every few 1000 miles. More power is better, but spending 10k for 10 hp is not very efficient. Based on my research here, a lot of "fixed" heads seem to fail anyway, even from reputable shops. Even been reading that the issue might exist with all OEM castings. With that in mind, I prefer to play it safe, and would look at an aftermarket casting.
For the heads, I'm leaning to Trick Flow heads as used by Mamo Motorsport. They have a different casting and he gets really good results with them. Tony's package looks very good, but is rather expensive and I suspect (hence this topic) the "stock" items that he uses might already give ~90% of the result. If money was unlimited and shipping/tax wasn't so silly, things would be different, but now it requires a bit more work.
Intake: the MSD Atomic Air intake seems to do well in high power NA builds.
Cam: no idea
Other stuff I might be missing: no idea
What would you suggest?
EDIT: Important: pump gas. No E85 available here. Premium fuel here is should be the same as US 93 grade.
I'm in the market for a Z06. Scared shitless of the engine problems. Still considering multiple options (think engine swap), but here I'm focussing on getting the most out of the LS7, since it is a mayor selling point of the car. I'm in Europe, there are very few shops here compared to the US, and it's a lot harder to find reviews, because it is such a niche market. I will likely get something pre-assembled in the US, so the bare minimum of work has to be done over here, but that is not set in stone. Parts will have to come from the US anyway. Since there's a good amount of work involved, I'd like to tackle head, cam and intake in 1 go and get it over with.
Goal of the car is to use it as a weekend warrior and road course car. Reliability is a mayor concern. I want to avoid having to check the heads every few 1000 miles. More power is better, but spending 10k for 10 hp is not very efficient. Based on my research here, a lot of "fixed" heads seem to fail anyway, even from reputable shops. Even been reading that the issue might exist with all OEM castings. With that in mind, I prefer to play it safe, and would look at an aftermarket casting.
For the heads, I'm leaning to Trick Flow heads as used by Mamo Motorsport. They have a different casting and he gets really good results with them. Tony's package looks very good, but is rather expensive and I suspect (hence this topic) the "stock" items that he uses might already give ~90% of the result. If money was unlimited and shipping/tax wasn't so silly, things would be different, but now it requires a bit more work.
Intake: the MSD Atomic Air intake seems to do well in high power NA builds.
Cam: no idea
Other stuff I might be missing: no idea
What would you suggest?
EDIT: Important: pump gas. No E85 available here. Premium fuel here is should be the same as US 93 grade.
the most reliable package would probably be a set of Mamo’s heads with PSI 1511 springs, the STOCK camshaft, an ‘09+ dry sump, and LT headers/ no cats, you could do a Mamo MSD and NW 102 while you are in there but make sure you have a good tuner because they aren’t easy to tune. Have your tuner tune it to 12.5:1 a/f or .85 lambda with around 20 degrees of timing. You should be able to make 550 RWHP give or take with this combo and have better than stock reliability.
09-22-2023, 06:48 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
depends a little on your power goals.
the most reliable package would probably be a set of Mamo’s heads with PSI 1511 springs, the STOCK camshaft, an ‘09+ dry sump, and LT headers/ no cats, you could do a Mamo MSD and NW 102 while you are in there but make sure you have a good tuner because they aren’t easy to tune. Have your tuner tune it to 12.5:1 a/f or .85 lambda with around 20 degrees of timing. You should be able to make 550 RWHP give or take with this combo and have better than stock reliability.
the most reliable package would probably be a set of Mamo’s heads with PSI 1511 springs, the STOCK camshaft, an ‘09+ dry sump, and LT headers/ no cats, you could do a Mamo MSD and NW 102 while you are in there but make sure you have a good tuner because they aren’t easy to tune. Have your tuner tune it to 12.5:1 a/f or .85 lambda with around 20 degrees of timing. You should be able to make 550 RWHP give or take with this combo and have better than stock reliability.
09-22-2023, 07:31 AM
#10
I think with my MMS 265 heads, long tubes, a good CAI, one of my ported MSD intakes, a larger 103mm TB and a good tune it would be real close to 550 at the wheels.
With a very mild custom ground cam (I'm talking small enough to pass smog here in Commiefornia) it would definitely hit 550 at the wheels
Maybe the OP is game to try....this type of engine combination is exactly what he is looking for assuming he wants to get in a little deeper than just resolving the OEM valvetrain issues
-Tony
With a very mild custom ground cam (I'm talking small enough to pass smog here in Commiefornia) it would definitely hit 550 at the wheels
Maybe the OP is game to try....this type of engine combination is exactly what he is looking for assuming he wants to get in a little deeper than just resolving the OEM valvetrain issues
-Tony
The following users liked this post:
grinder11 (09-26-2023)
09-22-2023, 06:50 PM
#11
Drifting
it’s all in the heads. AIs or MMS and yes it’s achievable. I made 528 (STD) with AI heads stock ported intake manifold, Mamo ported stock TB, stock exhaust manifolds with gutted cats (3rwhp), Honker, corsa x-pipe stock catback. Baseline was 440. 93 octane 20 deg of timing and .85 lamda
Last edited by niphilli2; 09-22-2023 at 07:26 PM.
09-23-2023, 07:45 AM
#12
Burning Brakes
My Stg 1 LS7 heads are $4350.....that is a premium head that comes with all the TLC and attention to detail as my heads that cost more due to optional hand finishing options, valve options, and spring hardware options. ...........They are 100% CNC ported.....come with lightweight custom Ferrea hollow stem stainless intake valves and a solid stem exhaust (both valves are light and weigh around 100 grams). They are equipped with dual valvesprings and titanium retainers that are rated for .640 lift and I offer other spring packages if required. The pricing on my Stg 1 heads also includes cc'ing and milling the chambers to our target volume to maximize your compression ratio based on the fuel quality you will use and your application. ...............Its also imperative to upgrade your rockers to a roller style rocker arm and Im a big fan of the Yella Terra Ultralites which are also very affordable and they simply work great.
I'm in the exact same boat as the OP. My heads are currently off my car and in BAD shape. I daily drive my car but also subject it to at least ~5-6 track days a year (at Mosport) and I definitely punish the car! LoL
Just curious if you have heads in-stock, ready to go, or what kind of timeframe would be required?
Also curious your thoughts on upgrading to a set Johnson lifters - link-bar vs. standard drop-in? Again, looking for something that's going to handle sustained/repeated high-RPM operation.
Lastly, if going to the link-bar lifters w/axle oiling, would you recommend an upgraded oil pump (ie: Katech blue?).
Not trying to steal the OP's thread, but hoping to get some meaningful advice which may benefit all!
Thanks in advance!
09-23-2023, 09:22 AM
#13
Drifting
Member Since: Dec 2017
Location: Baie-D'Urfe, Quebec
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2023 Corvette of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
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Just wondering...weren't your heads already fixed once? Stock cam?
09-23-2023, 09:50 AM
#14
Tony,
I'm in the exact same boat as the OP. My heads are currently off my car and in BAD shape. I daily drive my car but also subject it to at least ~5-6 track days a year (at Mosport) and I definitely punish the car! LoL
Just curious if you have heads in-stock, ready to go, or what kind of timeframe would be required?
Also curious your thoughts on upgrading to a set Johnson lifters - link-bar vs. standard drop-in? Again, looking for something that's going to handle sustained/repeated high-RPM operation.
Lastly, if going to the link-bar lifters w/axle oiling, would you recommend an upgraded oil pump (ie: Katech blue?).
Not trying to steal the OP's thread, but hoping to get some meaningful advice which may benefit all!
Thanks in advance!
I'm in the exact same boat as the OP. My heads are currently off my car and in BAD shape. I daily drive my car but also subject it to at least ~5-6 track days a year (at Mosport) and I definitely punish the car! LoL
Just curious if you have heads in-stock, ready to go, or what kind of timeframe would be required?
Also curious your thoughts on upgrading to a set Johnson lifters - link-bar vs. standard drop-in? Again, looking for something that's going to handle sustained/repeated high-RPM operation.
Lastly, if going to the link-bar lifters w/axle oiling, would you recommend an upgraded oil pump (ie: Katech blue?).
Not trying to steal the OP's thread, but hoping to get some meaningful advice which may benefit all!
Thanks in advance!
Realistically I could be mailing you something the last week in October....maybe a little sooner (in 2023 that's what we call pretty good lead time with all the problems getting parts these days!)
Johnson no longer makes the drop in lifters as guys were trying to push them too hard where they should have been in the race lifters. Anyway we could do a 2116LSR (limited travel link bar style lifter)
Those work real well or if your OK about spending time measuring for pushrods we do the short travel axle oiling lifters. They just take more time to set up due to having to measure every cylinder for pushrod length if you want to have a really quiet very effective valvetrain.
Those also reduce oil pressure but I sell a high volume ported ZR1 dry sump pump that moves a bunch of oil (I port the scavenge side as well), so that will offset the loss in pressure from the axle oiling lifters.
Best thing to do is to just ring me up and we can discuss things in more detail. My cell number is 661-714-1317
I would pair the heads up with the upgrade YT Pro roller rockers with the 10mm hardware upgrade (I drill and tap the heads on the CNC for the larger fasteners).
Again....we can get into this deeper on the phone. Look forward to speaking with you.
Regards,
Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 09-24-2023 at 06:37 AM.
09-23-2023, 10:01 AM
#15
My Stg 1 LS7 heads are $4350.....that is a premium head that comes with all the TLC and attention to detail as my heads that cost more due to optional hand finishing options, valve options, and spring hardware options.
Based on what your looking for my Stg 1 heads fit the bill perfectly.....they flow over 400 CFM in a port that is actually smaller in volume than an unported factory head (so big gains in flow and airspeed which is one of the reasons they work so well).
They are 100% CNC ported.....come with lightweight custom Ferrea hollow stem stainless intake valves and a solid stem exhaust (both valves are light and weigh around 100 grams). They are equipped with dual valvesprings and titanium retainers that are rated for .640 lift and I offer other spring packages if required. The pricing on my Stg 1 heads also includes cc'ing and milling the chambers to our target volume to maximize your compression ratio based on the fuel quality you will use and your application.
Its an affordable turn key solution and you still have your OEM heads to sell which should help cover a third or so of the purchase price of the far more efficient and effective aftermarket castings.
Its also imperative to upgrade your rockers to a roller style rocker arm and Im a big fan of the Yella Terra Ultralites which are also very affordable and they simply work great.
I have used them on 95% of ALL my LS builds over the last two decades (LS1, LS3, and LS7 platforms) and have literally hundreds of customers out there successfully running them including my own LS powered projects as well
Note a BIG part of the OEM problem is attributed to the OEM rocker design which scrubs and sideloads the valve stems and valve guides creating the hour glass shaped wear that leads so many people to have failed the "wiggle" test.
At some point that wear worsens and reduces performance from poor valve seal and increased oil consumption from the excessive clearance. Left unchecked if the wear gets really bad it can contribute to valve failure as well especially on the very fragile OEM exhaust valve
Heads and rocker upgrade is a must if your looking to truly sidestep the OEM LS7 valvetrain issues
A custom cam to compliment the package is always recommended and even a very mild cam optimized to take advantage of the new flow numbers my heads offer can provide substantial gains in performance without negatively affecting drivability and even pass smog if that is required.
Of course you can get more aggressive should you choose to.....it really just depends on what your goals are for the package.....every cam I design for my customer is aimed at optimizing his goals for the car and how aggressive or mild he is looking to be.
A ported MSD is simply a no brainer from the standpoint of power per dollar.....for under two thousand dollars you get a bolt on mod that would add 35 RWHP even with a milder combo and over 40 at the tire with a more aggressive camshaft profile.
Its very difficult to find that type of performance for so little money. Most mods cost $75 to $100 a pony.....this is literally half that and it really helps round out the performance potential of the upgrades
Those four items would be my recommendation but the two really important items to change from the standpoint of sidestepping all the OEM valvetrain issues like I mentioned above is the aftermarket more efficient head design coupled with swapping out the OEM rockers.
The cam and manifold upgrade is mostly to add power and potentially a little more personality to your Z06 but neither are really necessary if your just looking for reliability enhancements and peace of mind
I suggest you reach out to me via email or phone and we can discuss this situation and what your looking to accomplish in more detail.
Regards,
Tony
Based on what your looking for my Stg 1 heads fit the bill perfectly.....they flow over 400 CFM in a port that is actually smaller in volume than an unported factory head (so big gains in flow and airspeed which is one of the reasons they work so well).
They are 100% CNC ported.....come with lightweight custom Ferrea hollow stem stainless intake valves and a solid stem exhaust (both valves are light and weigh around 100 grams). They are equipped with dual valvesprings and titanium retainers that are rated for .640 lift and I offer other spring packages if required. The pricing on my Stg 1 heads also includes cc'ing and milling the chambers to our target volume to maximize your compression ratio based on the fuel quality you will use and your application.
Its an affordable turn key solution and you still have your OEM heads to sell which should help cover a third or so of the purchase price of the far more efficient and effective aftermarket castings.
Its also imperative to upgrade your rockers to a roller style rocker arm and Im a big fan of the Yella Terra Ultralites which are also very affordable and they simply work great.
I have used them on 95% of ALL my LS builds over the last two decades (LS1, LS3, and LS7 platforms) and have literally hundreds of customers out there successfully running them including my own LS powered projects as well
Note a BIG part of the OEM problem is attributed to the OEM rocker design which scrubs and sideloads the valve stems and valve guides creating the hour glass shaped wear that leads so many people to have failed the "wiggle" test.
At some point that wear worsens and reduces performance from poor valve seal and increased oil consumption from the excessive clearance. Left unchecked if the wear gets really bad it can contribute to valve failure as well especially on the very fragile OEM exhaust valve
Heads and rocker upgrade is a must if your looking to truly sidestep the OEM LS7 valvetrain issues
A custom cam to compliment the package is always recommended and even a very mild cam optimized to take advantage of the new flow numbers my heads offer can provide substantial gains in performance without negatively affecting drivability and even pass smog if that is required.
Of course you can get more aggressive should you choose to.....it really just depends on what your goals are for the package.....every cam I design for my customer is aimed at optimizing his goals for the car and how aggressive or mild he is looking to be.
A ported MSD is simply a no brainer from the standpoint of power per dollar.....for under two thousand dollars you get a bolt on mod that would add 35 RWHP even with a milder combo and over 40 at the tire with a more aggressive camshaft profile.
Its very difficult to find that type of performance for so little money. Most mods cost $75 to $100 a pony.....this is literally half that and it really helps round out the performance potential of the upgrades
Those four items would be my recommendation but the two really important items to change from the standpoint of sidestepping all the OEM valvetrain issues like I mentioned above is the aftermarket more efficient head design coupled with swapping out the OEM rockers.
The cam and manifold upgrade is mostly to add power and potentially a little more personality to your Z06 but neither are really necessary if your just looking for reliability enhancements and peace of mind
I suggest you reach out to me via email or phone and we can discuss this situation and what your looking to accomplish in more detail.
Regards,
Tony
What rocker arms do you recommend when upgrading the cylinder heads to help with the wear problem?
Thanks, Trevor
09-23-2023, 11:52 AM
#16
My Stg 1 LS7 heads are $4350.....that is a premium head that comes with all the TLC and attention to detail as my heads that cost more due to optional hand finishing options, valve options, and spring hardware options.
Based on what your looking for my Stg 1 heads fit the bill perfectly.....they flow over 400 CFM in a port that is actually smaller in volume than an unported factory head (so big gains in flow and airspeed which is one of the reasons they work so well).
They are 100% CNC ported.....come with lightweight custom Ferrea hollow stem stainless intake valves and a solid stem exhaust (both valves are light and weigh around 100 grams). They are equipped with dual valvesprings and titanium retainers that are rated for .640 lift and I offer other spring packages if required. The pricing on my Stg 1 heads also includes cc'ing and milling the chambers to our target volume to maximize your compression ratio based on the fuel quality you will use and your application.
Its an affordable turn key solution and you still have your OEM heads to sell which should help cover a third or so of the purchase price of the far more efficient and effective aftermarket castings.
Its also imperative to upgrade your rockers to a roller style rocker arm and Im a big fan of the Yella Terra Ultralites which are also very affordable and they simply work great.
I have used them on 95% of ALL my LS builds over the last two decades (LS1, LS3, and LS7 platforms) and have literally hundreds of customers out there successfully running them including my own LS powered projects as well
Note a BIG part of the OEM problem is attributed to the OEM rocker design which scrubs and sideloads the valve stems and valve guides creating the hour glass shaped wear that leads so many people to have failed the "wiggle" test.
At some point that wear worsens and reduces performance from poor valve seal and increased oil consumption from the excessive clearance. Left unchecked if the wear gets really bad it can contribute to valve failure as well especially on the very fragile OEM exhaust valve
Heads and rocker upgrade is a must if your looking to truly sidestep the OEM LS7 valvetrain issues
A custom cam to compliment the package is always recommended and even a very mild cam optimized to take advantage of the new flow numbers my heads offer can provide substantial gains in performance without negatively affecting drivability and even pass smog if that is required.
Of course you can get more aggressive should you choose to.....it really just depends on what your goals are for the package.....every cam I design for my customer is aimed at optimizing his goals for the car and how aggressive or mild he is looking to be.
A ported MSD is simply a no brainer from the standpoint of power per dollar.....for under two thousand dollars you get a bolt on mod that would add 35 RWHP even with a milder combo and over 40 at the tire with a more aggressive camshaft profile.
Its very difficult to find that type of performance for so little money. Most mods cost $75 to $100 a pony.....this is literally half that and it really helps round out the performance potential of the upgrades
Those four items would be my recommendation but the two really important items to change from the standpoint of sidestepping all the OEM valvetrain issues like I mentioned above is the aftermarket more efficient head design coupled with swapping out the OEM rockers.
The cam and manifold upgrade is mostly to add power and potentially a little more personality to your Z06 but neither are really necessary if your just looking for reliability enhancements and peace of mind
I suggest you reach out to me via email or phone and we can discuss this situation and what your looking to accomplish in more detail.
Regards,
Tony
Based on what your looking for my Stg 1 heads fit the bill perfectly.....they flow over 400 CFM in a port that is actually smaller in volume than an unported factory head (so big gains in flow and airspeed which is one of the reasons they work so well).
They are 100% CNC ported.....come with lightweight custom Ferrea hollow stem stainless intake valves and a solid stem exhaust (both valves are light and weigh around 100 grams). They are equipped with dual valvesprings and titanium retainers that are rated for .640 lift and I offer other spring packages if required. The pricing on my Stg 1 heads also includes cc'ing and milling the chambers to our target volume to maximize your compression ratio based on the fuel quality you will use and your application.
Its an affordable turn key solution and you still have your OEM heads to sell which should help cover a third or so of the purchase price of the far more efficient and effective aftermarket castings.
Its also imperative to upgrade your rockers to a roller style rocker arm and Im a big fan of the Yella Terra Ultralites which are also very affordable and they simply work great.
I have used them on 95% of ALL my LS builds over the last two decades (LS1, LS3, and LS7 platforms) and have literally hundreds of customers out there successfully running them including my own LS powered projects as well
Note a BIG part of the OEM problem is attributed to the OEM rocker design which scrubs and sideloads the valve stems and valve guides creating the hour glass shaped wear that leads so many people to have failed the "wiggle" test.
At some point that wear worsens and reduces performance from poor valve seal and increased oil consumption from the excessive clearance. Left unchecked if the wear gets really bad it can contribute to valve failure as well especially on the very fragile OEM exhaust valve
Heads and rocker upgrade is a must if your looking to truly sidestep the OEM LS7 valvetrain issues
A custom cam to compliment the package is always recommended and even a very mild cam optimized to take advantage of the new flow numbers my heads offer can provide substantial gains in performance without negatively affecting drivability and even pass smog if that is required.
Of course you can get more aggressive should you choose to.....it really just depends on what your goals are for the package.....every cam I design for my customer is aimed at optimizing his goals for the car and how aggressive or mild he is looking to be.
A ported MSD is simply a no brainer from the standpoint of power per dollar.....for under two thousand dollars you get a bolt on mod that would add 35 RWHP even with a milder combo and over 40 at the tire with a more aggressive camshaft profile.
Its very difficult to find that type of performance for so little money. Most mods cost $75 to $100 a pony.....this is literally half that and it really helps round out the performance potential of the upgrades
Those four items would be my recommendation but the two really important items to change from the standpoint of sidestepping all the OEM valvetrain issues like I mentioned above is the aftermarket more efficient head design coupled with swapping out the OEM rockers.
The cam and manifold upgrade is mostly to add power and potentially a little more personality to your Z06 but neither are really necessary if your just looking for reliability enhancements and peace of mind
I suggest you reach out to me via email or phone and we can discuss this situation and what your looking to accomplish in more detail.
Regards,
Tony
This. I spent like an hour with Tony on the phone last Friday night.
I find there to be great appeal with an aftermarket casting.
09-24-2023, 06:41 AM
#17
Here.....I copied and pasted my portion of the response discussing rocker arms
Its also imperative to upgrade your rockers to a roller style rocker arm and Im a big fan of the Yella Terra Ultralites which are also very affordable and they simply work great.
I have used them on 95% of ALL my LS builds over the last two decades (LS1, LS3, and LS7 platforms) and have literally hundreds of customers out there successfully running them including my own LS powered projects as well
Note a BIG part of the OEM problem is attributed to the OEM rocker design which scrubs and sideloads the valve stems and valve guides creating the hour glass shaped wear that leads so many people to have failed the "wiggle" test.
At some point that wear worsens and reduces performance from poor valve seal and increased oil consumption from the excessive clearance. Left unchecked if the wear gets really bad it can contribute to valve failure as well especially on the very fragile OEM exhaust valve
Heads and rocker upgrade is a must if your looking to truly sidestep the OEM LS7 valvetrain issues
Hope this helps
-Tony
09-24-2023, 08:34 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
I actually have a set of Stg 2 heads for stock that I have stated working on ...
Johnson no longer makes the drop in lifters as guys were trying to push them too hard where they should have been in the race lifters. Anyway we could do a 2116LSR (limited travel link bar style lifter). Those work real well or if your OK about spending time measuring for pushrods we do the short travel axle oiling lifters. They just take more time to set up due to having to measure every cylinder for pushrod length if you want to have a really quiet very effective valvetrain.
Those also reduce oil pressure but I sell a high volume ported ZR1 dry sump pump that moves a bunch of oil (I port the scavenge side as well), so that will offset the loss in pressure from the axle oiling lifters.
I would pair the heads up with the upgrade YT Pro roller rockers with the 10mm hardware upgrade (I drill and tap the heads on the CNC for the larger fasteners).
Regards,
Tony
Johnson no longer makes the drop in lifters as guys were trying to push them too hard where they should have been in the race lifters. Anyway we could do a 2116LSR (limited travel link bar style lifter). Those work real well or if your OK about spending time measuring for pushrods we do the short travel axle oiling lifters. They just take more time to set up due to having to measure every cylinder for pushrod length if you want to have a really quiet very effective valvetrain.
Those also reduce oil pressure but I sell a high volume ported ZR1 dry sump pump that moves a bunch of oil (I port the scavenge side as well), so that will offset the loss in pressure from the axle oiling lifters.
I would pair the heads up with the upgrade YT Pro roller rockers with the 10mm hardware upgrade (I drill and tap the heads on the CNC for the larger fasteners).
Regards,
Tony
.Again, not trying to hijack the post - think the OP and I are looking for the same thing here (and pretty much everyone else) ............ RELIABILITY. I just want a bullet-proof engine that I can take to the track on occasion and scream to ~7k a few dozen times without having a guilty conscience about the whole thing! Hell, my old '02 LS1 Camaro was a BEAST - bought that car new when I was only 20 years old, drove the damn wheels off of it - drag race, road race, you name it - and ran it until over 150,000kms (over 90k miles) and never turned a single wrench on the engine!! That poor engine saw missed shifts, 1-2-1 upshifts and well over 7000RPM more times than I care to admit, yet it never burned oil or made any noise until the day it was retired to Car Heaven. It's a pity that the LS7 has earned such a bad rap, but sadly, it has EARNED it. This is now my 2nd LS7 and it's getting head work for the SECOND TIME, with only ~112k / 70k miles on the clock. My first LS7 took out the crank with less than 40k / 25k miles on it.
Anyway, appreciate all of the help & support around here!!!
09-24-2023, 09:10 PM
#19
Yeah, unfortunately I'm done for this season. My problems all started after a track day last month - ran great at the track, drove home, parked it, all smooth, then NEXT MORNING, it woke up with a "Check Engine" light (and "Service Active Handling"?!) and an obvious mis-fire. Cyl #7 was the initial culprit (very low compression) but once I got digging, found that the heads are pooched. YES, I already had new guides done ~45,000kms ago (~28k miles), with Moldstar 90 (not through AHP, but a local machine shop near me). Everything in the valvetrain is stock, otherwise - cam, lifters, springs, rockers. I was really hoping that the upgraded guide material AND the fact that they supposedly fixed any concentricity issues was going to give me MANY years & miles of trouble-free running, so I'm a little disappointed that I'm back to square-one. THANKFULLY, it didn't drop a valve, so the bottom end should be fine!
Sounds like a solid setup, Tony! I'll give you a shout one day soon.
Again, not trying to hijack the post - think the OP and I are looking for the same thing here (and pretty much everyone else) ............ RELIABILITY. I just want a bullet-proof engine that I can take to the track on occasion and scream to ~7k a few dozen times without having a guilty conscience about the whole thing! Hell, my old '02 LS1 Camaro was a BEAST - bought that car new when I was only 20 years old, drove the damn wheels off of it - drag race, road race, you name it - and ran it until over 150,000kms (over 90k miles) and never turned a single wrench on the engine!! That poor engine saw missed shifts, 1-2-1 upshifts and well over 7000RPM more times than I care to admit, yet it never burned oil or made any noise until the day it was retired to Car Heaven. It's a pity that the LS7 has earned such a bad rap, but sadly, it has EARNED it. This is now my 2nd LS7 and it's getting head work for the SECOND TIME, with only ~112k / 70k miles on the clock. My first LS7 took out the crank with less than 40k / 25k miles on it.
Anyway, appreciate all of the help & support around here!!!
Sounds like a solid setup, Tony! I'll give you a shout one day soon
.Again, not trying to hijack the post - think the OP and I are looking for the same thing here (and pretty much everyone else) ............ RELIABILITY. I just want a bullet-proof engine that I can take to the track on occasion and scream to ~7k a few dozen times without having a guilty conscience about the whole thing! Hell, my old '02 LS1 Camaro was a BEAST - bought that car new when I was only 20 years old, drove the damn wheels off of it - drag race, road race, you name it - and ran it until over 150,000kms (over 90k miles) and never turned a single wrench on the engine!! That poor engine saw missed shifts, 1-2-1 upshifts and well over 7000RPM more times than I care to admit, yet it never burned oil or made any noise until the day it was retired to Car Heaven. It's a pity that the LS7 has earned such a bad rap, but sadly, it has EARNED it. This is now my 2nd LS7 and it's getting head work for the SECOND TIME, with only ~112k / 70k miles on the clock. My first LS7 took out the crank with less than 40k / 25k miles on it.
Anyway, appreciate all of the help & support around here!!!
Keep in mind that I can sell and produce whatever I want.....I have a good CNC program for OEM LS7 heads from back before the TFS castings were even offered. I can install whatever guide material I want. At the end of the day I feel the only thing that it really accomplishes is resetting the fuse on the OEM problems. Eliminating the OEM exhaust valves is good but the OEM Ti valves have surface finish issues that aggravate valve guide wear. Nothing with the valvetrain geometry is improved when you change guides and install all the same (or most) of the OEM components. And as I previously touched on the OEM rockers are a huge part of the problem sideloading the valve stem and the valve guides creating wear on both. And that's made even worse with more cam lift btw and more spring pressure.....if you didn't have an OEM cam in there it would have happened in half that time or less.
Moving into higher flowing better performing more efficient aftermarket heads offers a bunch of performance advantages besides truly offering a neat and clean solution to the valvetrain problems. It just seems like a no brainer to me to move in that direction
I also tell folks to Google "Blown up fixed heads" as there are enough cautionary tales out there now that they dont have to take my word for it.
Anyway....look forward to working with you at some point.....I recommend you plan ahead as lead times can vary a great deal based on timing of the order (how buried we are at the time) and parts availability. Could be 3 weeks and it could be four months or anything in the middle.
Cheers,
Tony
PS.....No sign of the OP since his first post and I don't see what your discussing as being any type of hijacking anyway.....its simply the sharing of good information for the community and that's why we are all here
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 09-24-2023 at 09:17 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports:
Cap'n Pete (09-25-2023),
grinder11 (09-26-2023)
09-25-2023, 05:15 AM
#20
I am still following, no worries! I also don't mind the "hijack". The thread is a bit centered around you Tony, not exactly what I was hoping for (no offence meant, but I knew about your offering and its good reputation).
It might be better if I just started looking for comparison reviews of the mayor individual components and then ask feedback here, but that will be a lot more work. I think ideally, I was hoping for feedback from a tuner or similar that has seen many different builds and has the numbers of them.
This is, for example, an interesting article: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hr...top-ls7-heads/, just like this is: https://www.streetmusclemag.com/tech...ls7-head-test/
Many many many different options however, not that easy to figure out all the intricacies as an V8 noob.
It might be better if I just started looking for comparison reviews of the mayor individual components and then ask feedback here, but that will be a lot more work. I think ideally, I was hoping for feedback from a tuner or similar that has seen many different builds and has the numbers of them.
This is, for example, an interesting article: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hr...top-ls7-heads/, just like this is: https://www.streetmusclemag.com/tech...ls7-head-test/
Many many many different options however, not that easy to figure out all the intricacies as an V8 noob.
The following users liked this post:
Cap'n Pete (09-25-2023)