[ZR1] Road & Track - ZR1 vs. C6.R
03-05-2012, 03:31 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by range96
So, my next question is how do you make the ZR1 PDE car outhandle a stock Z06 Z07 on tight courses without radical changes...
Given the same driver and track configuration, on the same day, the Z06 can be as fast or faster than the ZR1. How can that be? Because a tighter course will not allow the ZR1 driver to exploit their cars strengths and therefore the Z06 can be as fast or faster for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post in this thread. That is, given a driver who recognizes both cars strengths and weaknesses and can use them to advantage.
However, given a track configuration that favors the ZR1, that being one with longer straights (plural), it will likely be faster.
Conversely, I guarantee you there are cars that will annihilate a ZR1 in a parking garage race but stand no chance just about anywhere else.
Again, it comes down to knowing ones strengths and being able to exploit them by knowing your opponents weaknesses. And everything has its weaknesses. Of course one must also guard against the other guy exploiting their strenghths.
Any other fighter pilots here know exactly what I'm talking about and it's really not much different with cars.
By the way, I have a 2011 ZR1. TR with chromies. And of course it's lighter and faster than any other "bone stock" ZR1 on the planet.
03-05-2012, 03:40 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
03-05-2012, 05:16 PM
#44
Melting Slicks
An age old question. And the answer is simple: improve the driver before the car. A lot of people focus on their car as though putting more money into it will somehow make them a better driver. It's rather like telling a great chef or writer, "You're a great chef! You must have nice pots and pans" or, "You're a wonderful writer! You must have a nice set of pens." As though their tools are what make them great.
Given the same driver and track configuration, on the same day, the Z06 can be as fast or faster than the ZR1. How can that be? Because a tighter course will not allow the ZR1 driver to exploit their cars strengths and therefore the Z06 can be as fast or faster for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post in this thread. That is, given a driver who recognizes both cars strengths and weaknesses and can use them to advantage.
However, given a track configuration that favors the ZR1, that being one with longer straights (plural), it will likely be faster.
Conversely, I guarantee you there are cars that will annihilate a ZR1 in a parking garage race but stand no chance just about anywhere else.
Again, it comes down to knowing ones strengths and being able to exploit them by knowing your opponents weaknesses. And everything has its weaknesses. Of course one must also guard against the other guy exploiting their strenghths.
Any other fighter pilots here know exactly what I'm talking about and it's really not much different with cars.
By the way, I have a 2011 ZR1. TR with chromies. And of course it's lighter and faster than any other "bone stock" ZR1 on the planet.
Given the same driver and track configuration, on the same day, the Z06 can be as fast or faster than the ZR1. How can that be? Because a tighter course will not allow the ZR1 driver to exploit their cars strengths and therefore the Z06 can be as fast or faster for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post in this thread. That is, given a driver who recognizes both cars strengths and weaknesses and can use them to advantage.
However, given a track configuration that favors the ZR1, that being one with longer straights (plural), it will likely be faster.
Conversely, I guarantee you there are cars that will annihilate a ZR1 in a parking garage race but stand no chance just about anywhere else.
Again, it comes down to knowing ones strengths and being able to exploit them by knowing your opponents weaknesses. And everything has its weaknesses. Of course one must also guard against the other guy exploiting their strenghths.
Any other fighter pilots here know exactly what I'm talking about and it's really not much different with cars.
By the way, I have a 2011 ZR1. TR with chromies. And of course it's lighter and faster than any other "bone stock" ZR1 on the planet.
03-05-2012, 07:40 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
An age old question. And the answer is simple: improve the driver before the car. A lot of people focus on their car as though putting more money into it will somehow make them a better driver. It's rather like telling a great chef or writer, "You're a great chef! You must have nice pots and pans" or, "You're a wonderful writer! You must have a nice set of pens." As though their tools are what make them great.
Given the same driver and track configuration, on the same day, the Z06 can be as fast or faster than the ZR1. How can that be? Because a tighter course will not allow the ZR1 driver to exploit their cars strengths and therefore the Z06 can be as fast or faster for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post in this thread. That is, given a driver who recognizes both cars strengths and weaknesses and can use them to advantage.
However, given a track configuration that favors the ZR1, that being one with longer straights (plural), it will likely be faster.
Conversely, I guarantee you there are cars that will annihilate a ZR1 in a parking garage race but stand no chance just about anywhere else.
Again, it comes down to knowing ones strengths and being able to exploit them by knowing your opponents weaknesses. And everything has its weaknesses. Of course one must also guard against the other guy exploiting their strenghths.
Any other fighter pilots here know exactly what I'm talking about and it's really not much different with cars.
By the way, I have a 2011 ZR1. TR with chromies. And of course it's lighter and faster than any other "bone stock" ZR1 on the planet.
Given the same driver and track configuration, on the same day, the Z06 can be as fast or faster than the ZR1. How can that be? Because a tighter course will not allow the ZR1 driver to exploit their cars strengths and therefore the Z06 can be as fast or faster for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post in this thread. That is, given a driver who recognizes both cars strengths and weaknesses and can use them to advantage.
However, given a track configuration that favors the ZR1, that being one with longer straights (plural), it will likely be faster.
Conversely, I guarantee you there are cars that will annihilate a ZR1 in a parking garage race but stand no chance just about anywhere else.
Again, it comes down to knowing ones strengths and being able to exploit them by knowing your opponents weaknesses. And everything has its weaknesses. Of course one must also guard against the other guy exploiting their strenghths.
Any other fighter pilots here know exactly what I'm talking about and it's really not much different with cars.
By the way, I have a 2011 ZR1. TR with chromies. And of course it's lighter and faster than any other "bone stock" ZR1 on the planet.
I wasn't looking for a lecture on driver skills. Simply, suspension tips on how to improve handling of the ZR1.
By the way, I have a 2010 ZR1. AW with non-chrome wheels. And it is faster than yours. Bone stock.
03-05-2012, 07:42 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
03-05-2012, 08:34 PM
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Heat negatively affects any internal combustion engine. It also affects turbines or anything else that breathes air, including us. For the simple reason that warmer air is less dense and contains fewer oxygen molecules than cold air.
03-05-2012, 09:10 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by range96
I wasn't looking for a lecture on driver skills. Simply, suspension tips on how to improve handling of the ZR1.
Because the fact is the people who designed the ZR1 are those people and nothing you do short of building a full-on race car is going to radically improve the handing of a stock ZR1. Even Ferrari uses the GM/Delphi designed MSRC system.
And sticky tires and an alignment don't count. And neither does simply installing a bunch of aftermarket parts and calling it good because the vendors said so.
The parts themselves may be fine and even well engineered. However, they still require proper tuning in order to improve a given car in some areas. And the key to doing so is driver input and a lot of iterative adjustments based on it. In turn, that must often be repeated for different tracks as well as differing environmental conditions.
Simply put, like any production street car, there are a lot of compromises made. But the more one reduces those compromises the more specific to a given situation a car becomes.
03-05-2012, 09:28 PM
#50
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I think one needs to clarify what they really mean when theycask how to make _______ handle better... Advising one to improve their own skills is valid , however how many of us would tolerate excessive body roll, or excessive understeer... Or any bad handling habbit if we knew it could be improved.
So although asking how one can improve their own cars handling can look a bit silly to you lap junkies, how do you know if he is out to break the fastest lap time at his local track and not just looking to actually improve the cars driving characteristics....
Are you saying a better driver will make any car handle well? I think not
So although asking how one can improve their own cars handling can look a bit silly to you lap junkies, how do you know if he is out to break the fastest lap time at his local track and not just looking to actually improve the cars driving characteristics....
Are you saying a better driver will make any car handle well? I think not
03-05-2012, 11:18 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
Then you might want to ask a multi-billion dollar company who employs some of the best automotive engineers in the world instead of Joe Schmoe on the Internet.
Because the fact is the people who designed the ZR1 are those people and nothing you do short of building a full-on race car is going to radically improve the handing of a stock ZR1. Even Ferrari uses the GM/Delphi designed MSRC system.
And sticky tires and an alignment don't count. And neither does simply installing a bunch of aftermarket parts and calling it good because the vendors said so.
The parts themselves may be fine and even well engineered. However, they still require proper tuning in order to improve a given car in some areas. And the key to doing so is driver input and a lot of iterative adjustments based on it. In turn, that must often be repeated for different tracks as well as differing environmental conditions.
Simply put, like any production street car, there are a lot of compromises made. But the more one reduces those compromises the more specific to a given situation a car becomes.
Because the fact is the people who designed the ZR1 are those people and nothing you do short of building a full-on race car is going to radically improve the handing of a stock ZR1. Even Ferrari uses the GM/Delphi designed MSRC system.
And sticky tires and an alignment don't count. And neither does simply installing a bunch of aftermarket parts and calling it good because the vendors said so.
The parts themselves may be fine and even well engineered. However, they still require proper tuning in order to improve a given car in some areas. And the key to doing so is driver input and a lot of iterative adjustments based on it. In turn, that must often be repeated for different tracks as well as differing environmental conditions.
Simply put, like any production street car, there are a lot of compromises made. But the more one reduces those compromises the more specific to a given situation a car becomes.
Street cars are optimized for the street and can be improved for the track. Sticky tires and alignment do count. A lot. I think my original question was already answered in posts 20 and 21.
I very much agree with most of your points, however. The easiest way to lower lap times is seat time - driver experience and familiarity with the track. No doubt.
03-06-2012, 11:24 AM
#52
Drifting
All the R&T guys loved them all from the base to the ZR1! No comparisons to high end exotics, no interior bulls$%T. So they perfered the Z06 big deal. A magazine finally gave the whole line a great write up!!!! that's what's important.
03-06-2012, 11:51 AM
#53
Former Vendor
The Emco race transaxle is 70k$ with axles. ( Thats 15k axles, gear box, and differential)
The emco sequential transmission only, that bolts into stock corvettes is 27K$
The Zr1 will never out accelerate the C6R. The HP difference is minimal ( less than 50 hp) but the weight difference, as mentioned, is staggering. I believe the C6R ACO weight is 1200-1225kg ( 2700 lbs) no driver, where the Zr1 is 3300 lbs, no driver
Also, aerodynamics plays a HUGE role as well as the tires.
The emco sequential transmission only, that bolts into stock corvettes is 27K$
The Zr1 will never out accelerate the C6R. The HP difference is minimal ( less than 50 hp) but the weight difference, as mentioned, is staggering. I believe the C6R ACO weight is 1200-1225kg ( 2700 lbs) no driver, where the Zr1 is 3300 lbs, no driver
Also, aerodynamics plays a HUGE role as well as the tires.
03-06-2012, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by range96
Are you saying the Z06 designed by a multi-billion dollar company cannot be beat by the ZR1 designed by a multi-billion dollar company?
03-06-2012, 07:08 PM
#56
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The Emco race transaxle is 70k$ with axles. ( Thats 15k axles, gear box, and differential)
The emco sequential transmission only, that bolts into stock corvettes is 27K$
The Zr1 will never out accelerate the C6R. The HP difference is minimal ( less than 50 hp) but the weight difference, as mentioned, is staggering. I believe the C6R ACO weight is 1200-1225kg ( 2700 lbs) no driver, where the Zr1 is 3300 lbs, no driver
Also, aerodynamics plays a HUGE role as well as the tires.
The emco sequential transmission only, that bolts into stock corvettes is 27K$
The Zr1 will never out accelerate the C6R. The HP difference is minimal ( less than 50 hp) but the weight difference, as mentioned, is staggering. I believe the C6R ACO weight is 1200-1225kg ( 2700 lbs) no driver, where the Zr1 is 3300 lbs, no driver
Also, aerodynamics plays a HUGE role as well as the tires.
Last edited by timvette7; 03-07-2012 at 12:03 AM. Reason: spelling error
03-06-2012, 10:23 PM
#58
Originally Posted by Fizzex
Road racing is a series of drag races connected by turns of various types. And the faster laptime is usually the car which can maintain the highest average speed overall, not just on the straigh
Last edited by GR8-LIFE; 03-06-2012 at 10:25 PM.
03-07-2012, 09:45 AM
#60
Melting Slicks
And yet sadly even though both cars are as fast as anything out there they will still lose all the magazine comparisons to slower cars because...what is it this week, seats again? or maybe 'steering feel' or wait, tires.
I reread that Lightning Lap article where the Z kills every other car including the 458 Italia and GT3 by a mile and sets a figure 8 record and they still dog it to like 6th place.
I like what the editor of that Vette magazine said concerning the magazines complaints about seats and such making it lose comparisons. I mean if they were so bad wouldn't it have affected the performance and then the car wouldn't have been the fastest? It's a good column, worth reading.
Seems I am not the only person who has gotten sick of the overwhelming euro centric bias of most car mags. If it's made in the US apparently all praise must come with a caveat....and points subtracted. ( I mean really how many times in that one article did they complain about the tires (cheater race tires they called them) even though the Porsche had the same ones with 3 more grooves. But were it is awesome, they call the vette a sham. Ah, well.
I reread that Lightning Lap article where the Z kills every other car including the 458 Italia and GT3 by a mile and sets a figure 8 record and they still dog it to like 6th place.
I like what the editor of that Vette magazine said concerning the magazines complaints about seats and such making it lose comparisons. I mean if they were so bad wouldn't it have affected the performance and then the car wouldn't have been the fastest? It's a good column, worth reading.
Seems I am not the only person who has gotten sick of the overwhelming euro centric bias of most car mags. If it's made in the US apparently all praise must come with a caveat....and points subtracted. ( I mean really how many times in that one article did they complain about the tires (cheater race tires they called them) even though the Porsche had the same ones with 3 more grooves. But were it is awesome, they call the vette a sham. Ah, well.
Completely Then they give the 1st 2nd place honors to cars that cost double the price and do not perform as good... I just about quit reading all that nonsense
Last edited by Robert 2000; 03-07-2012 at 09:52 AM.