[Z06] GM response to LS7 valve guide issue summary confirmed
10-11-2012, 01:46 PM
#641
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2002
Location: North shore,Ma./Naples Florida
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I don't think they should be responsibe for a modded engine. They never have before and they should not in this case. When you mod, it becomes your problem from that point on.
That said, the statement is pretty much as I had stated it would be in previous posts. It actually says next to nothing and only includes some of the 08 model year because they are still at the tail end of their regular warranty. Once that is done, of course the 08's will no longer be on the list. I don't think much will ever be done on this issue short of a well organized class action lawsuit to get their attention and maybe have them take some VIN related action. It certainly does nothing to allieviate the fears so many of us have about the longevity and dependibility of our unmodified engines. The damage that has been done to the ZO6 name is bad enough as it is.
That said, the statement is pretty much as I had stated it would be in previous posts. It actually says next to nothing and only includes some of the 08 model year because they are still at the tail end of their regular warranty. Once that is done, of course the 08's will no longer be on the list. I don't think much will ever be done on this issue short of a well organized class action lawsuit to get their attention and maybe have them take some VIN related action. It certainly does nothing to allieviate the fears so many of us have about the longevity and dependibility of our unmodified engines. The damage that has been done to the ZO6 name is bad enough as it is.
Last edited by Frankie2blue; 10-11-2012 at 01:49 PM.
10-11-2012, 01:48 PM
#642
Race Director
Those that are not satisfied, are not because the statement does not support its a wide-spread problem as you and others believe it is.
I am copying GM's statement here, hard copy and electronically.. according to them 06's and 07's did not have the issue... my car is an 07 I have 0 worries about this (not that I really had any to begin with)
10-11-2012, 01:57 PM
#643
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Every case is unique whether realized or not. I don't see how anyone can expect specific responses publicly to cover so many different questions. Heck, nobody here could agree on what they would want even if there was a GM genie in the bottle.
I have seen contradictory and misinformed posts describing dealership service center conversations. The number of replaced motors is nowhere near the calamity its made out to be here.
This is why whether you wanted to hear more info or not, the GM post is helpful:
There has never been any one specific method or person to spearhead all the questions that have popped up and provide factual consistent responses -- there is now. Take advantage of it.
Seems a little premature to scream from the rooftops until giving that a try. I suspect this will appease the majority of owners and remove all the overblown anxiety.
Mike
10-11-2012, 02:08 PM
#644
Drifting
This is how I see it:
Every case is unique whether realized or not. I don't see how anyone can expect specific responses publicly to cover so many different questions. Heck, nobody here could agree on what they would want even if there was a GM genie in the bottle.
I have seen contradictory and misinformed posts describing dealership service center conversations. The number of replaced motors is nowhere near the calamity its made out to be here.
This is why whether you wanted to hear more info or not, the GM post is helpful:
There has never been any one specific method or person to spearhead all the questions that have popped up and provide factual consistent responses -- there is now. Take advantage of it.
Seems a little premature to scream from the rooftops until giving that a try. I suspect this will appease the majority of owners and remove all the overblown anxiety.
Mike
Every case is unique whether realized or not. I don't see how anyone can expect specific responses publicly to cover so many different questions. Heck, nobody here could agree on what they would want even if there was a GM genie in the bottle.
I have seen contradictory and misinformed posts describing dealership service center conversations. The number of replaced motors is nowhere near the calamity its made out to be here.
This is why whether you wanted to hear more info or not, the GM post is helpful:
There has never been any one specific method or person to spearhead all the questions that have popped up and provide factual consistent responses -- there is now. Take advantage of it.
Seems a little premature to scream from the rooftops until giving that a try. I suspect this will appease the majority of owners and remove all the overblown anxiety.
Mike
)
10-11-2012, 02:09 PM
#645
Melting Slicks
It identifies which MY are effected, what the cause of the problem is, what to do about it.. gives contact information to follow up.. seems to me it says quite a bit.
Those that are not satisfied, are not because the statement does not support its a wide-spread problem as you and others believe it is.
I am copying GM's statement here, hard copy and electronically.. according to them 06's and 07's did not have the issue... my car is an 07 I have 0 worries about this (not that I really had any to begin with)
Those that are not satisfied, are not because the statement does not support its a wide-spread problem as you and others believe it is.
I am copying GM's statement here, hard copy and electronically.. according to them 06's and 07's did not have the issue... my car is an 07 I have 0 worries about this (not that I really had any to begin with)
10-11-2012, 02:12 PM
#646
Race Director
This is how I see it:
Every case is unique whether realized or not. I don't see how anyone can expect specific responses publicly to cover so many different questions. Heck, nobody here could agree on what they would want even if there was a GM genie in the bottle.
I have seen contradictory and misinformed posts describing dealership service center conversations. The number of replaced motors is nowhere near the calamity its made out to be here.
This is why whether you wanted to hear more info or not, the GM post is helpful:
There has never been any one specific method or person to spearhead all the questions that have popped up and provide factual consistent responses -- there is now. Take advantage of it.
Seems a little premature to scream from the rooftops until giving that a try. I suspect this will appease the majority of owners and remove all the overblown anxiety.
Mike
Every case is unique whether realized or not. I don't see how anyone can expect specific responses publicly to cover so many different questions. Heck, nobody here could agree on what they would want even if there was a GM genie in the bottle.
I have seen contradictory and misinformed posts describing dealership service center conversations. The number of replaced motors is nowhere near the calamity its made out to be here.
This is why whether you wanted to hear more info or not, the GM post is helpful:
There has never been any one specific method or person to spearhead all the questions that have popped up and provide factual consistent responses -- there is now. Take advantage of it.
Seems a little premature to scream from the rooftops until giving that a try. I suspect this will appease the majority of owners and remove all the overblown anxiety.
Mike
1000% Mike, there are many that just will never be satisfied here. GM could have posted the schematic to the space shuttle and a Mars probe and people would complain bitch and whine.Then you have some that are just unreasonable and expect GM to cover a cammed motor, with tune and all the goodies and want GM to have to prove it was not the mods that caused a failure
NO manufacturer would support that, I'd bet my car on it.Thanks for keeping us informed and taking the lead on getting more information. I think most of us knew no matter what GM said, there would be people still complaining and upset.
I think those that are so disappointed with this situation and so upset they should just sell the dam car... I know I would if I felt as strongly as some do here.
10-11-2012, 02:13 PM
#647
Race Director
10-11-2012, 02:22 PM
#648
Melting Slicks
I appreciate the feedback in this thread but why the privacy? Many, including myself have ask some pretty understandable and basic questions.
Will STOCK cars that are out of warranty coverage that fall within the years you mentioned be covered if they fail due to this issue?
Most of us don't have any issues right now but if we do fall into unfortunate minority of failures 1 year from now and are out of warranty will this DEFECT from the factory be covered?
I disagree Short Throw about removing anxiety. Unless a blanket statement publicly made by GM stating:
"Its our fault and if you own a 2008-09-10 Z06 and it fails due to this error on our part and you are stock IT WILL BE COVERED on our dime"
Without the above statement along the the admission of a defect in the car I see many people selling in the near future when out of warranty.
10-11-2012, 02:26 PM
#649
Melting Slicks
1000% Mike, there are many that just will never be satisfied here. GM could have posted the schematic to the space shuttle and a Mars probe and people would complain bitch and whine.Then you have some that are just unreasonable and expect GM to cover a cammed motor, with tune and all the goodies and want GM to have to prove it was not the mods that caused a failure
NO manufacturer would support that, I'd bet my car on it.Thanks for keeping us informed and taking the lead on getting more information. I think most of us knew no matter what GM said, there would be people still complaining and upset.
I think those that are so disappointed with this situation and so upset they should just sell the dam car... I know I would if I felt as strongly as some do here.
Last edited by gatti-man; 10-11-2012 at 02:28 PM.
10-11-2012, 02:31 PM
#650
Drifting
Member Since: Feb 2012
Location: CHARLOTTE NC
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The National Corvette Museum! THE LS7!! The Largest,Most powerful Small Block Ever Built!! The last paragraph is titled, BUILT BY HAND. Assembly of every LS7 engine is preformed by hand by a dedicated team at GM,s new performance build center. The engines are pushed through approximately 15 sub-assembly stations,where only the components and tools necessary to complete the stations task are at hand. Tools such as eletric-torque wrenches provide repeatable accuracy for the engines precise tolerances,while the eyes of the specially trained team members provide intangible attention to detail. Team members are engine build specialist from GM,s Experimental engine lab, and they complete about 30 LS7,s per day.Upon completion, each engine is balanced and subjected to a 20 min heat test. It is then transported to the corvette assembly plant in Boiling Green KY. to be married with a new Corvette Z06! It just never accured to me that the heads where not(Hand Built)along with the rest of the engine at the same location. And Now,as of Feb,2011 100% inspection af all heads. I readily admit i have no expertise at engine building, but i will bet that if these heads where assembled( like the rest of the LS7) At GM,s performance Build Center, this kind of problem would have never happened. I have stood beside the LS7 and GM on this issue in that i have not been apart of the so called sky is falling brigade. No disrespect intended toward anyone!! I just wonder what % of the heads were being inspected before feb.2011? As advertised, All LS7 engines are assembled by hand useing procedures normally associated with the building of racing engines! Indeed, the LS7 engineers spent as much time at racetracks as they did at engine dynometers. Everything from the Cylinder Heads to the unique dry-sump oiling system has a direct link back to the racing program! But while the LS7 has racing roots, it delivers its performance with uncompromising smoothness and tractability-Qualities that make the Corvette Z06 a daily-drivable SuperCar! It looks like GM,s managment teams had the production for the Z06 perfect, all except one thing. The inspection of ALL the Heads before being each LS7 motor was compleated. And that to me is inexcusable when building a car that is being advertised as a SuperCar! Let me finish by saying im still a very proud owner of my 2009 Z06! A Katech #56 Z06!! By far the most amazing automobile iv ever owned without question! Buying this car opened up a world i would have never found otherwise. Meeting some really cool people and my first Track Attack was something ill never forget! But, something is nagging at me, why was there not a memo put out after the issue was discovered?
10-11-2012, 02:32 PM
#651
Drifting
My problem is that I will not have put enough miles on my 2008 Z06 (currently 4200 miles) to find if my heads have the machining error to cause excessive valve guide wear until well out of warranty.
Even when it ran out of warranty I was planning on keeping this car for a very long time. I just can't be concerned that one day at 17,000 miles or so I looose my engine.
I was looking/hoping for a real technical response and solution. Such as, GM can inspect the head to determine if it has the machining error. If it does the corrective action is to ...
Although I love my Z06 there is no way I'm going to keep it. This will be my last Corvette and any GM car for our family.
Even when it ran out of warranty I was planning on keeping this car for a very long time. I just can't be concerned that one day at 17,000 miles or so I looose my engine.
I was looking/hoping for a real technical response and solution. Such as, GM can inspect the head to determine if it has the machining error. If it does the corrective action is to ...
Although I love my Z06 there is no way I'm going to keep it. This will be my last Corvette and any GM car for our family.
10-11-2012, 02:42 PM
#652
10-11-2012, 03:22 PM
#653
Le Mans Master
This is how I see it:
Every case is unique whether realized or not. I don't see how anyone can expect specific responses publicly to cover so many different questions. Heck, nobody here could agree on what they would want even if there was a GM genie in the bottle.
I have seen contradictory and misinformed posts describing dealership service center conversations. The number of replaced motors is nowhere near the calamity its made out to be here.
This is why whether you wanted to hear more info or not, the GM post is helpful:
There has never been any one specific method or person to spearhead all the questions that have popped up and provide factual consistent responses -- there is now. Take advantage of it.
Seems a little premature to scream from the rooftops until giving that a try. I suspect this will appease the majority of owners and remove all the overblown anxiety.
Mike
Every case is unique whether realized or not. I don't see how anyone can expect specific responses publicly to cover so many different questions. Heck, nobody here could agree on what they would want even if there was a GM genie in the bottle.
I have seen contradictory and misinformed posts describing dealership service center conversations. The number of replaced motors is nowhere near the calamity its made out to be here.
This is why whether you wanted to hear more info or not, the GM post is helpful:
There has never been any one specific method or person to spearhead all the questions that have popped up and provide factual consistent responses -- there is now. Take advantage of it.
Seems a little premature to scream from the rooftops until giving that a try. I suspect this will appease the majority of owners and remove all the overblown anxiety.
Mike
Instead, I think GM should have provided specific info on which cars are suspect. I kind of find it hard to believe they can't give a detailed list of which cars are effected, considering how production of parts seems to be tracked via computers nowadays.
And if they can't do that, then they should offer a free inspection of the guides to verify the car is not going to be a problem.
10-11-2012, 03:28 PM
#654
Melting Slicks
I think the reason you're seeing these kind of responses is that people do not want to wait and see if their engine blows, even if GM promises to take care of it. To begin with, a windowed block can cause an accident that could kill you, your passenger and other people if you wreck.
Instead, I think GM should have provided specific info on which cars are suspect. I kind of find it hard to believe they can't give a detailed list of which cars are effected, considering how production of parts seems to be tracked via computers nowadays.
And if they can't do that, then they should offer a free inspection of the guides to verify the car is not going to be a problem.
Instead, I think GM should have provided specific info on which cars are suspect. I kind of find it hard to believe they can't give a detailed list of which cars are effected, considering how production of parts seems to be tracked via computers nowadays.
And if they can't do that, then they should offer a free inspection of the guides to verify the car is not going to be a problem.
All good points.
Are you sitting on a ticking time bomb? Maybe, maybe not but at least you have Evan to contact after you find out your one of the unlucky ones? Maybe your covered if your out of warranty, maybe not.
Sorry, I am going to need more than that. How anyone could think this statement could give anyone less anxiety is beyond me.
10-11-2012, 03:56 PM
#655
Race Director
As far as 06 and 07 cars go, how many have failed again? And how many have failed in fact due to guide wear? I have not seen that information specifically anywhere. I am aware of 06 and 07 cars on "the list" here that is all.
Cause (head milling issue)
MY effected
What to listen for
Who to contact
When the problem was contained.
And sorry but your wrong. I've seen 2 shops, not "every" shop say hard facts this is a widespread problem.. WCCH (and actually thats all coming third party here reporting on the forum) And then Carlos at Vetteair in so many words has said its widespread
LG and ECS, and Livernois have not said "guys this is a widespread problem high % of cars we have seen guide wear and fail" LG had 1 car fail, did not say its widespread.. ECS told another forum member to save his money when he inquired about it. Ligenfelter posted "when" they do see guide wear they recommend a fix ( I foget if it was bronze guides or what) and has never stated they see it as a widespread problem.
and I didn't even mention the "k" shop did I now
If people are concerned about "their" car , they should contact Evan directly, he stated that already..he will look into each on a case by case basis. That;s perfectly acceptable to me. A contact and resource has been provided for those that still have anxiety
Last edited by FrankTank; 10-11-2012 at 04:01 PM.
10-11-2012, 04:06 PM
#656
Drifting
[/QUOTE]If people are concerned about "their" car , they should contact Evan directly, he stated that already..he will look into each on a case by case basis. That;s perfectly acceptable to me. A contact and resource has been provided for those that still have anxiety[/QUOTE]
An avenue of recourse has been opened, if necessary, use it and see what happens.
An avenue of recourse has been opened, if necessary, use it and see what happens.
10-11-2012, 04:08 PM
#657
Le Mans Master
Another wonderful non-answer from GM. Since I'm well out of warranty, I guess I'll just have to hope and pray that nothing goes boom. Hopefully I'll have time this winter when the car is put away to pull the heads, measure the guides and repair, if necessary.
Never would have thought I'd be seriously considering pulling the heads on a car with only 34k miles.
Never would have thought I'd be seriously considering pulling the heads on a car with only 34k miles.
10-11-2012, 04:14 PM
#658
Melting Slicks
And sorry but your wrong. I've seen 2 shops, not "every" shop say hard facts this is a widespread problem.. WCCH (and actually thats all coming third party here reporting on the forum) And then Carlos at Vetteair in so many words has said its widespread
LG and ECS, and Livernois have not said "guys this is a widespread problem high % of cars we have seen guide wear and fail" LG had 1 car fail, did not say its widespread.. ECS told another forum member to save his money when he inquired about it. Ligenfelter posted "when" they do see guide wear they recommend a fix ( I foget if it was bronze guides or what) and has never stated they see it as a widespread problem.
He said on one car the entire drivers side was so completely out of spec he had no idea how it didn't fail.
Thats just 1 shop in my area. Did I happen to get lucky or is the problem a little more wide spread? Only GM knows.
10-11-2012, 04:14 PM
#659
If people are concerned about "their" car , they should contact Evan directly, he stated that already..he will look into each on a case by case basis. That;s perfectly acceptable to me. A contact and resource has been provided for those that still have anxiety[/QUOTE]
An avenue of recourse has been opened, if necessary, use it and see what happens.[/QUOTE]
I have. We'll see.
An avenue of recourse has been opened, if necessary, use it and see what happens.[/QUOTE]I have. We'll see.
10-11-2012, 04:14 PM
#660
Burning Brakes
Many were of the opinion that the 2009+ model years were good to go, because none had failed, the P/N changed on the exhaust valves, etc, etc.
If the 2006 and 2007s are excluded, then am I to believe there is ANOTHER completely separate issue causing 06-07 valve problems? I'm not inclined to believe so.
I'm sticking with the 2006 and 2007 engines aren't mentioned because they are all nearly out of the 5 year power train warranty by now. Warranty liabilities really only apply 2008+ at this time.
