freaknbigpanda

MTPZ06

Remains to be seen, but I wouldn't expect anything for the foreseeable future. You're unfortunately on your own for now.

sam90lx

Add me to the list, all 16 valves were out of spec.
Car is bone stock down to the air filter, 17988 miles when it arrived to AHP to get repaired.

MTPZ06

Not surprised...welcome to the "less than 1% club".

dmuellenberg

We all know that the less than 1% club refers to those who have actually dropped a valve, not those that just have out of spec guides. That club is probably closer to 95%.

MTPZ06

Unfortunately, not everyone on here is aligned with that understanding.

Unreal

But plenty of people are claiming that less than 1% have out of spec guides. MTPz06 is correct. Plus, as mileage and age goes up, the drop valve part would be surprising if <1%. Just in the people I know it is far far higher than that.

Tonylmiller

Please post links to those posts. I do not recall seeing anyone who thinks that over 99% of valve guides are in spec for unmodified LS7 engines in service. I am expecting to see "plenty" of them.

It comes down to the definition of the term "failure". Has an engine with valve guides out of spec failed? I say, if the engine still runs normally and sounds normal, it has not failed.

How many engines have actually dropped a valve? It is a very difficult subject with incomplete data. And it is even more difficult because so many people have modified their heads, which hopefully drastically reduces the failure rate.

reasonable suspicion

Enough to know there is a real problem and pattern.

Tonylmiller

In your opinion, what percentage would it take to be "enough"?

AzDave47

In 2003 when BMW E46 M3s had blown 150 engines in the US, they did a recall on all of them to replace the main bearings under warranty. That was probably less than 1% of all the E46 M3s sold at that time.

From posts here, there have certainly been hundreds of blown engines due to dropped valves in the LS7 for the roughly 30,000 produced. At least one fellow has witnessed 8 blown engines and at least two forum members have had two replacement engines installed.

Tonylmiller

I would love for them to fix my engine, as long as they do it right. I have to say, 300 is still only 1%. But I have no evidence of that many. If I have a 99% probability that I won't have a failure, I will probably just take my chances.

Seriously, though, there is no wrong answer to this. Where would you put the threshold for a recall?

AzDave47

You think their only obligation is if the engine fails.

I expect they will sell cars that have heads in spec new and are still in spec during the warranty period. The high majority of heads of forum members that have been measured have been beyond the wear spec that GM says is bad. My engine had 14 of 16 valve guides out of spec at 46K miles, while the car was still under warranty and the LS7 was still stock with no mods.

BMW recalled and fixed ALL the E46 engines because of the bearing problem, not just to ones that failed. GM bet the heads wouldn't fail and had no problem making customers foot the bill (screw them) to repair out of spec heads as long as they didn't fail in the warranty peried.

c5c6c7

THE LAWYERS WILL GET IT ALL......Don't think any C6 owners will get a dime...well maybe a dime.

MTPZ06

I'm fine with that...as long as GM cuts a check (which they wont really feel), and they get the corresponding bad publicity through all major news outlets. Which again, wont amount to much other than some personal satisfaction...I'm cool with that.

reasonable suspicion

Good luck!

reasonable suspicion

Agreed..... just don't think they should be able to hide behind "old gm"

Tonylmiller

I think their only obligation is if the engine fails during the warranty period. They could do more for their customers, though. However, I bet many, many engines out there are running fine (of all types) that have something out of tolerance after 30,000 miles.

So no one is willing to say what they think is a reasonable failure rate threshold for recall? I'm just looking for opinions.

MTPZ06

A wide-spread and well documented manufacturing defect (guide to seat non-concentricity) should most certainly be grounds for a recall. The problem with that, until they rectify the manufacturing defect, there's no point in warrantying non-concentric heads with a new set of highlier than likely non-concentric heads. I'll stick with my AHP MS90 heads.

Again though...you and I define "failure" much differently.

Tonylmiller

Problem is, Chevy does not guarantee that everything on the car stays within tolerance. If you think about it, that would really be a nightmare. I can see their point on that.

What do you think would be a good threshold for recall for engines that fail (drop a valve)? I'm looking for a percentage of the total.