[Z06] Mobil 1 is crap oil
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06-26-2016, 09:20 AM
Drifting
Engine oils have a specification sheet available and meet certain tests just as say...an engine would. People take time to learn about the obvious when specifying an engine such as CID, horsepower and torque....well, engine oils have basic specs readily available to tell you how they will perform. Then, people learn about particulars concerning engines such as compression ratio, redline, where it makes most power, fuel injection, what type of pistons etc. Well, engine oils have spec sheets similar to that of engines in a way that tells someone who wants to take the time to learn all he needs to know.
When we buy or build an engine we dont look at advertizing but we look at specs.
If it werent for chemical companies and the majors such as Exxon/Mobil, Shell, chevron and companies like these that actually refine lubricants and then develope the additives to sell back to blenders such as castrol, royal purple...joe shmo and others we would not even have all these brands. Dupont, atlantic richfield, and others even divisions of major oil companies.
All lubricant companies do not have refineries. Hence, where do they buy their oil? Duh...from exxon, shell, chevron.....so, when Mobil pioneers synthetic base stocks and improves technology the rest benifit.
How does a smaller company like Royal Purple claim to have a better oil than Mobil one? Well, they can have a better product and if not better then a more specialized product for your application. Realize though, that the smaller lubricant companies can only improve products when the major companies offer them improved additives and base stocks.
By choosing the components....say Mobil has a great synthetic base stock and Shell has a great anti foaming agent, Dupont has a great detergent and so on, then a small indpendent lubricant company can put together a package that in theory can out perform the other company's product. In theory.
More zinc, more calcium/magnesium and other additives.
Testing these oils is super expensive.
Companies such as Chevron will go out to taxi fleets or truck fleets across the country and perform real world testing with a group of 50 to 100 behicles, then tear down the engines and look at everything from deposit control to cylinder scoring, valve guide wear etc.
Sometimes a pre measured engine test is performed: each bearing, piston ring, and other engine parts are weighed at assembly then weighed after the testing with certain motor oils to determine how much weight loss per component occured hence how much actual wear occured....not just an opinion of what looks good as new. Appearance is part of the test though too. Even the amount of sludge under valve covers.
Small lubricants companies cannot afford these tests every year when specs change so they rely on the major companies to do it for them, then sell them the additives, then the smaller companies claim performance based upon the results of these tests.
All the chemicals and I mean all of them come fom the majors and then the blenders choose what combinations they wish to use, then describe their theory as to why they think that their special blend of additives will work better.
Some companies simply buy refined base stock and then blend oils using complete additive packages from the majors. Some go through the trouble to source seperate components to try and make the absolute best package possible regardless of price. Almost all companies are forced to offer different price points.
Some companies simply private label from the majors such as exxon/modil and repackage or order some special color or some slightly different specification.
Blending these products can even be carried out by contract blenders that specialize in compounding chemicals. These facilities might make everything from paint to bugspray to engine oil. Lets say the oil needs to be heated and pressurized, then static charged to keep certin additives from settling to the bottom while on the shelf....a small oil company that cannot possibly compete with the majors will send their oil and additives to one of these contract custom blenders....hence the label will say custom blended...which is not a bad thing and quality is likely better controlled since the custom blenders invest in state of the art equipment.
One thing that bugs me a bit and is often practiced, even forced by the consumer, is when oil companies package the same product but label as if it were different levels of protection. It is perfectly ok to do this as long as you use the highest quality products and then discount the highest quality products under a step down label.
If you would realize just how much of that product you swear upon comes from the 3 major oil companies you might just go ahead and buy the major brand product.
I could go on about oils for a long time but really, all you need to do is get a spec sheet and learn what the specs mean just as you learned about engines. Then there wont be any silly threads of wives tales.
We could discuss lubricants in the same way we discuss engines, transmissions, cooling fans or cylinder heads.
Look at TBN (the ability of an oil to neutralize acids)
pour point (helps us determine on a cold day how quickly the oil will reach certain parts) zinc content ( an anti wear agent meant to cusion in cases of metal to metal contact, more to it...diminishing returns as zinc content rises btw, thats why most have about the same amount, also the zinc will not burn as oil does, leaving deposits)
Ash content (like a cigarette, what is left after an oil burns, as it seeps into the cylinder past rings and valve quides gives us an idea of what we can expect in deposits. Oil burns relatively clean, as our gasoline is basically oil, but all the things we put in the oil do not burn well as they are metalic or some other compound, but we need them.)
There are a few other major specs to look at in engine oils. Transmission fluids, gear oils etc. All have spec sheets, greases are another item highly misunderstood and again there are spec sheets to hint at performance.
As corvette guys we are generally an intelligent bunch that enjoys learning and improving whatever we can related to our mechanicals.
So, get the spec sheet of your favorite oils and learn the basics as what they mean.
I worked with a motor oil manufacturer for 15 years and regularly, the major companies would come and teach us what they had learned and also to sell us their products.
You would be surprised that although a rivalry may exist in sales that the small companies get a huge amount of support from the major oil companies. Without the majors there would be no amsoil, royal purple and others. It can only be through selecting slightly better additives can a small company out perform a major companiy product and again that is in theory.
Then the next year, the majors come out with something better. The majors are so far ahead of the small companies it is astonishing.
Just like GM might add direct injection and piston cooling nozzles....performance shops didnt offer this...
when the so called geniuses at our performance shops make a few changes and become heroes, but really cannot make huge steps until the majors develop a new product and choose a few components.
So, the title of this thread about Mobil One is disturbing as is the fact that is was left there without being deleted.
When we buy or build an engine we dont look at advertizing but we look at specs.
If it werent for chemical companies and the majors such as Exxon/Mobil, Shell, chevron and companies like these that actually refine lubricants and then develope the additives to sell back to blenders such as castrol, royal purple...joe shmo and others we would not even have all these brands. Dupont, atlantic richfield, and others even divisions of major oil companies.
All lubricant companies do not have refineries. Hence, where do they buy their oil? Duh...from exxon, shell, chevron.....so, when Mobil pioneers synthetic base stocks and improves technology the rest benifit.
How does a smaller company like Royal Purple claim to have a better oil than Mobil one? Well, they can have a better product and if not better then a more specialized product for your application. Realize though, that the smaller lubricant companies can only improve products when the major companies offer them improved additives and base stocks.
By choosing the components....say Mobil has a great synthetic base stock and Shell has a great anti foaming agent, Dupont has a great detergent and so on, then a small indpendent lubricant company can put together a package that in theory can out perform the other company's product. In theory.
More zinc, more calcium/magnesium and other additives.
Testing these oils is super expensive.
Companies such as Chevron will go out to taxi fleets or truck fleets across the country and perform real world testing with a group of 50 to 100 behicles, then tear down the engines and look at everything from deposit control to cylinder scoring, valve guide wear etc.
Sometimes a pre measured engine test is performed: each bearing, piston ring, and other engine parts are weighed at assembly then weighed after the testing with certain motor oils to determine how much weight loss per component occured hence how much actual wear occured....not just an opinion of what looks good as new. Appearance is part of the test though too. Even the amount of sludge under valve covers.
Small lubricants companies cannot afford these tests every year when specs change so they rely on the major companies to do it for them, then sell them the additives, then the smaller companies claim performance based upon the results of these tests.
All the chemicals and I mean all of them come fom the majors and then the blenders choose what combinations they wish to use, then describe their theory as to why they think that their special blend of additives will work better.
Some companies simply buy refined base stock and then blend oils using complete additive packages from the majors. Some go through the trouble to source seperate components to try and make the absolute best package possible regardless of price. Almost all companies are forced to offer different price points.
Some companies simply private label from the majors such as exxon/modil and repackage or order some special color or some slightly different specification.
Blending these products can even be carried out by contract blenders that specialize in compounding chemicals. These facilities might make everything from paint to bugspray to engine oil. Lets say the oil needs to be heated and pressurized, then static charged to keep certin additives from settling to the bottom while on the shelf....a small oil company that cannot possibly compete with the majors will send their oil and additives to one of these contract custom blenders....hence the label will say custom blended...which is not a bad thing and quality is likely better controlled since the custom blenders invest in state of the art equipment.
One thing that bugs me a bit and is often practiced, even forced by the consumer, is when oil companies package the same product but label as if it were different levels of protection. It is perfectly ok to do this as long as you use the highest quality products and then discount the highest quality products under a step down label.
If you would realize just how much of that product you swear upon comes from the 3 major oil companies you might just go ahead and buy the major brand product.
I could go on about oils for a long time but really, all you need to do is get a spec sheet and learn what the specs mean just as you learned about engines. Then there wont be any silly threads of wives tales.
We could discuss lubricants in the same way we discuss engines, transmissions, cooling fans or cylinder heads.
Look at TBN (the ability of an oil to neutralize acids)
pour point (helps us determine on a cold day how quickly the oil will reach certain parts) zinc content ( an anti wear agent meant to cusion in cases of metal to metal contact, more to it...diminishing returns as zinc content rises btw, thats why most have about the same amount, also the zinc will not burn as oil does, leaving deposits)
Ash content (like a cigarette, what is left after an oil burns, as it seeps into the cylinder past rings and valve quides gives us an idea of what we can expect in deposits. Oil burns relatively clean, as our gasoline is basically oil, but all the things we put in the oil do not burn well as they are metalic or some other compound, but we need them.)
There are a few other major specs to look at in engine oils. Transmission fluids, gear oils etc. All have spec sheets, greases are another item highly misunderstood and again there are spec sheets to hint at performance.
As corvette guys we are generally an intelligent bunch that enjoys learning and improving whatever we can related to our mechanicals.
So, get the spec sheet of your favorite oils and learn the basics as what they mean.
I worked with a motor oil manufacturer for 15 years and regularly, the major companies would come and teach us what they had learned and also to sell us their products.
You would be surprised that although a rivalry may exist in sales that the small companies get a huge amount of support from the major oil companies. Without the majors there would be no amsoil, royal purple and others. It can only be through selecting slightly better additives can a small company out perform a major companiy product and again that is in theory.
Then the next year, the majors come out with something better. The majors are so far ahead of the small companies it is astonishing.
Just like GM might add direct injection and piston cooling nozzles....performance shops didnt offer this...
when the so called geniuses at our performance shops make a few changes and become heroes, but really cannot make huge steps until the majors develop a new product and choose a few components.
So, the title of this thread about Mobil One is disturbing as is the fact that is was left there without being deleted.
#2
Melting Slicks
well first off, you are way late to the game if you are JUST now realizing Mobil 1 is crap. Especially if you have based your research on that article which was written in what, the 80's or 90's?
And second that test they performed as ABSOLUTELY GARBAGE and I dont even think is used anymore. The test machine can be manipulated to show vegetable oil or sex lube to be a better lubricant than real motor oil based on how quickly or slowly they apply the load. Its not a repeatable test. I didnt read the article, but all the pictures point to the conclusions being reached based on the wear on the race.
And second that test they performed as ABSOLUTELY GARBAGE and I dont even think is used anymore. The test machine can be manipulated to show vegetable oil or sex lube to be a better lubricant than real motor oil based on how quickly or slowly they apply the load. Its not a repeatable test. I didnt read the article, but all the pictures point to the conclusions being reached based on the wear on the race.
#3
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It is an interesting article but I remain unconvinced that their method of testing accurately replicates how these oils actually function in an engine. It looks like most of the oils tested fared poorly. Many of us have run hundreds of thousands of miles on Mobil with no problems. Oil is one of those subjects that get beaten to death on Forums. The reality is, as long as you change it regularly, most of the modern synthetics are very good, especially compared to oils produced many years ago.
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Yet it seems there are no reported engine failures directly caused by the Mobil 1 brand of oil when used per the manufacturers specs. Hmmmm!
I'd seriously question someone who would pay excessive amounts for the product and then use 80 year old technology to test several different weights of oil in a direct comparison of scar length while using different contact pressures.
What will the aussies test next?
I'd seriously question someone who would pay excessive amounts for the product and then use 80 year old technology to test several different weights of oil in a direct comparison of scar length while using different contact pressures.
What will the aussies test next?
#7
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
"capevettes" gets a "Beacon of Reality" Award.
His statement about the testing method not replicating conditions present inside an engine is spot-on!
Mobil 1 is a reasonably good synthetic engine oil which offers a good balance between performance, protection and price, however, there are a couple of other brands of synthetics which are better because of more robust base stocks and how they are formulated. Obviously, better oils cost more.
One of these "premium synthetics is Driven Racing Oil which uses some recent base-stock technology (mPAO) developed a couple of years ago by Exxon-Mobil. Driven makes an excellent "everyday" 5W30 high-performance synthetic engine oil called LS-30, which is a step above Mobil 1 5W30 and several steps above "Dexos 1" 5W30, which is a synthetic blend.
Driven also markets a 5W40 called "DT-40" which is an excellent choice for extreme duty, ie: for tracking.
I'm using two different Driven products. LS-30 in my daily drivers and DT-40 in my LS6 and LS7.
Another very good synthetic is Red Line, which uses a proven, ester-base stock. In fact, up until a couple of years ago, I used Red Line 10W30, but have switched to Gibbs Driven because I was intrigued by Driven's use of mPAO base and that Driven formulates the 5W40 with VI improvers which are more shear-stable.
Last edited by Hib Halverson; 06-29-2016 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Corrected error in DT-40 description.
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capevettes (06-14-2016)
#8
Racer
Mobil 1 is crap oil
Boom.
"capevettes" gets a "Beacon of Reality" Award.
His statement about the testing method not replicating conditions present inside an engine is spot-on!
Mobil 1 is a reasonably good synthetic engine oil which offers a good balance between performance, protection and price, however, there are a couple of other brands of synthetics which are better because of more robust base stocks and how they are formulated. Obviously, better oils cost more.
One of these "premium synthetics is Driven Racing Oil which uses some recent base-stock technology (mPAO) developed a couple of years ago by Exxon-Mobil. Driven makes an excellent "everyday" 5W30 high-performance synthetic engine oil called LS-30, which is a step above Mobil 1 5W30 and several steps above "Dexos 1" 5W30, which is a synthetic blend.
Driven also markets a 0W40 called "DT-40" which is an excellent choice for extreme duty, ie: for tracking.
I'm using two different Driven products. LS-30 in my daily drivers and DT-40 in my LS6 and LS7.
Another very good synthetic is Red Line, which uses a proven, ester-base stock. In fact, up until a couple of years ago, I used Red Line 10W30, but have switched to Gibbs Driven because I was intrigued by Driven's use of mPAO base and that Driven formulates the 0W40 with VI improvers which are more shear-stable.
"capevettes" gets a "Beacon of Reality" Award.
His statement about the testing method not replicating conditions present inside an engine is spot-on!
Mobil 1 is a reasonably good synthetic engine oil which offers a good balance between performance, protection and price, however, there are a couple of other brands of synthetics which are better because of more robust base stocks and how they are formulated. Obviously, better oils cost more.
One of these "premium synthetics is Driven Racing Oil which uses some recent base-stock technology (mPAO) developed a couple of years ago by Exxon-Mobil. Driven makes an excellent "everyday" 5W30 high-performance synthetic engine oil called LS-30, which is a step above Mobil 1 5W30 and several steps above "Dexos 1" 5W30, which is a synthetic blend.
Driven also markets a 0W40 called "DT-40" which is an excellent choice for extreme duty, ie: for tracking.
I'm using two different Driven products. LS-30 in my daily drivers and DT-40 in my LS6 and LS7.
Another very good synthetic is Red Line, which uses a proven, ester-base stock. In fact, up until a couple of years ago, I used Red Line 10W30, but have switched to Gibbs Driven because I was intrigued by Driven's use of mPAO base and that Driven formulates the 0W40 with VI improvers which are more shear-stable.
Last edited by flyby763; 06-14-2016 at 07:14 PM.
#9
#11
For me much the same as suggested earlier. You get what you pay for. Better oil...higher cost. There are several threads here to go over the different brands. Please review and decide on one.
#12
I've been running Mobil 1 in my truck (5.7 HEMI) since day one, 190,000 miles and no issues nor any metal on the magnetic plug. Use LS30 in my car
#13
Melting Slicks
For off the bigmart shelf stuff Mobil 1's newest advanced formula has moved near the top 1/3 of the segment. Not the same stuff they made in the c5, early c6 gen. There is a test report on here that's pretty recent. Mobil 1 5w30 (regular) finished 2nd. Apples to apples. I am now running Mobil 0w30.
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For off the bigmart shelf stuff Mobil 1's newest advanced formula has moved near the top 1/3 of the segment. Not the same stuff they made in the c5, early c6 gen. There is a test report on here that's pretty recent. Mobil 1 5w30 (regular) finished 2nd. Apples to apples. I am now running Mobil 0w30.
#15
Melting Slicks
Last edited by REDZED2; 06-15-2016 at 01:52 AM.
#16
My question is if mobil one is so god awful why is it on the oil cap and recommend for almost every high end car???
Manufacturers who warranty the motors don't care how much oil is. It is of no issue to them how much an oil change cost the customer, however they warranty the motor.so I would assume they want to protect their exposure to failure at any cost. So my question is if redline, royal purple, amsoil, etc is so wonderful, why is it not standard issue??
Manufacturers who warranty the motors don't care how much oil is. It is of no issue to them how much an oil change cost the customer, however they warranty the motor.so I would assume they want to protect their exposure to failure at any cost. So my question is if redline, royal purple, amsoil, etc is so wonderful, why is it not standard issue??
#17
Le Mans Master
My question is if mobil one is so god awful why is it on the oil cap and recommend for almost every high end car???
Manufacturers who warranty the motors don't care how much oil is. It is of no issue to them how much an oil change cost the customer, however they warranty the motor.so I would assume they want to protect their exposure to failure at any cost. So my question is if redline, royal purple, amsoil, etc is so wonderful, why is it not standard issue??
Manufacturers who warranty the motors don't care how much oil is. It is of no issue to them how much an oil change cost the customer, however they warranty the motor.so I would assume they want to protect their exposure to failure at any cost. So my question is if redline, royal purple, amsoil, etc is so wonderful, why is it not standard issue??
Most any of the major brands of oil are going to protect your normal street driven vehicle for hundreds of thousands of miles. Much longer than the majority will ever own or drive their car. Unless you are racing, operating your vehicle outside the normal parameters, or participating in extended oil change intervals beyond manufacturers recommendations there's really no logical reason to use many of the higher priced specialty oils. Just my 2¢.
U.M.
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Crossofiron (06-18-2016)
#18
Drifting
Since most of us don't drive our Corvettes as many miles as a normal car, what is the actual difference between Mobil 1, over time - say 50,000 miles and 10 years, and Brand X, which these tests show as "better?" That's something I'd like to see. I bet the *tangible* difference (measurable/provable) is very little considering how little we drive our cars. Maybe after 150,000, 200, etc. miles there would be some difference? Until someone can show/prove that to me, I'll stick with my cheap/recommended Mobil 1.
#19
Anything Kendall...I use Kendall Euro 5w40 GT-1 Full Synthetic and it stopped my oil consumption in its tracks and its cheap (amazon). I switched from brad penn 10w 40 which had low oil change interval after a test of 1000miles of use. still good stuff just does not last for a daily usage.
Before that I used shell rotella, valvoline and practically every other off the shelf brand which were still decent but could not stop consumption.
according to the article Penrite seems to be one of the best and its an australian oil priced low, but shipping will stick you. Aussies have a huge V8 following in their racing circuit so that would be my next choice.
Last edited by donatez06; 06-15-2016 at 09:19 AM.
#20
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REDZED2 (06-15-2016)