RamAir972003

MaTE=American Heritage 3;15getting7suefronto post up to have rantthat our PM guides we use are not GM guides or off the shelf guides.
Our Hardened PM guides we have manufactured here locally to our specs and tolerances (proprietary to us).
We have quite a few Package 4 heads with well over 60,000 miles on them and still well within spec (still right where we set them up at).
Just wanted to make that clear.

Our Hardened PM guides are a proven guide for both street and track use. However we do recommend our Moldstar90 guides for those that are going to be doing serious track duty and those looking for an "overkill guide" for the street/strip.

Feel free to give us a call
310-326-2399
or email us at
Parts@americanheritageperformance.com
for any additional information. We are always glad to answer any questions.

http://www.americanheritageperformance.com/[/QUOTE]


Ok my response to this will be no disrespect torward anyone but frustration now...

Now nobody said AH guides were Gm correct, it was stated with your testing of guides and in house guides which show hardness...of each one correct.

Now I'm sorry AH your saying you have 60K miles on your packages? That means to go that many miles on what's a few in your terms, 5 10 20. That means when back in 08 09 when valves where dropping none of the other company or people could figure this dilemma out all the testing and valve weighing and theory's done by katech wcch and so on are obsolete and then there is the person I really respect Darin the f man Morgan he does not like internet bickering at all as he posted his thread, and what it takes for him to post anything.About my current situation on valve guides and why he kept the pm guides in there at the time, not going to quote him..as he posted.

If these people on your stage 4 packages went 60k were are they? I mean everyone on here is asking how many miles and so on. I have a sticky on WHO DID YOUR HEADS REGISTRY. Also I know for a fact Quick and propain would have not sold there cars. Im sorry where is this data I asked you when you first came here on the scene and were introducing yourself to the forum Im sure you know what the most asked question was? I got an indirect response from you like always as when I asked you again numerous times about your 625hp to wheels on pump gas you would not respond to my question till I said something like its the pump gas correct ....Now just to be clear not taking anything away from your company, you have done great work no doubt but coming here and trying to say you have 60k miles on few cars with you pm guides to market your company in my thread that is not cool at all AH and basically the response that was made by Darin Morgan is obsolete? Now there is different guides and so on but if my car only went 22k with .0015 and your stating your in house guides have gone 60k? we on the forum failed trying all theses years.....

Again Im not mad just frustrated on all this BS valve guide dillema.....please understand my frustration and everyone else's. I have done 4 sets of heads with Darin not because they went bad I helped people and kept spares for times like this . I will be selling these heads after I freshen them up to recover my loss in doing another heads and cam again......

So please AH no disrespect at all I don't know you personally or so on but stating something like this is a very very very big Issue especially since gm is getting sued over this and people have lost their minds over this now you see where Im coming from .....just to be clear out of respect for Darin Morgan and others I would like you not to attack anyone on this issue because they have been in the game for longer than before I was even driving , and this thread will get locked which I do not want please this suppose to help everyone Pm me if you can answer my questions for me please....

C5 Hardtop

Did you find any that were not within spec?

outhouse

Your guides were STOCK guides, which are not the same guides that AHP uses.


I have heard nothing but positive responses from this company, and NO negative at all. Not even unkind words.



Then be mad at GM. By not addressing the guides earlier, you were left in this situation.


Your heads are the same as everyone else with stock heads EXCEPT you modified your car with an aggressive valve train which accelerated wear. Which if you read a long was minor and just a hair out of spec.


Hell GM produced heads out of spec from the factory brand new never ran.

RamAir972003

Um when did I say my guides weren't stock and say they are the same as AH. In my past posts from years I told everyone from 2012 if you research and see. Second of all put myself in what situation by not addressing the guides earlier? I had the work done 2011 2012 It was determined that there was nothing wrong with the pm guide. Darin Morgan even quoted it unless now your an expert and know more than me and Darin smh....really I put myself in this situation? I have STATED IN PAST IM ON PM GUIDES BACK IN 2011 2012....people on here have gone 100k on stock guides and your telling me now experts are wrong and I put myself in this situation..... no I think you just have your opinion which you entitled to but experts on the other side are obsolete correct is that what your saying... back then if you remember people were saying its the hollow stem valves remember Quick would argue back and forth on this. I never pointed the finger at anyone that's why I quoted numerous times its time for me to check my heads and cam, also cam is small lift not big and people were also quoting that its the cam now see where this is going its all speculation. Now these heads have pac springs ferrea valves and still look new Darin said all hey need is guides and refreshing. And no my heads are not the same as everyone else's you are wrong again

outhouse

Well obviously someone was wrong here because your guides are not in spec are they? That means the determination was faulty.


I'm sorry that we all know now that the stock PM guides are a problem. that is why we all have harder guides put in.


I understand your frustrated because back then it was thought they were tolerance poorly due to QC, well they were. But they are ASLO soft when setting up an aggressive valvetrain.


Knowledge has changed in 4 years and now we can look back and see who guessed right and who guessed poorly.

RamAir972003

There in spec but show minimal wear the car can still be driven the way it is but why when there's better parts now.....

I understand what your saying but back then technology has come up....and better quality parts are out now....frustrated yes I'm probably the few that have actually driven there car with heads and cam for over 20k that says something and also I want to help everyone on this forum, heads and cam and more heads are not cheap.....hell I have spent some money that's not counting the other toys I have yes I'm frustrated but I want to help people on here not speculate....

Did you read the post they were measured and my valve train looked good they said and from what I observed....also just because you put a harder guide in there doesn't mean there cant be wear hell Chad before he got banned tested and videoed heads with bronze guides that failed now whats your theory on that....even katec and linghenfilter were using pm guides back then don't say they were not because people were arguing about that and threads were getting locked....

u have been here long enough to know that.....Let me ask you a question how many miles on your vette mine has 87k this wasn't by guessing the heads were inspected and guides were new but then gm came out and said it was QC not the guides and it affected certain years horse **** cough cough..so if it was the guides which was back in 2011 why would gm warranty new motor or heads if it was going to happen again? injuneers know better then us IJS...but now after all the **** hit the fan we now know that PM guides and not properly set up valavetrain causes the guide to wear out quicker....actually after seeing and testing friends new heads and pulling them after 2500 miles guide were was eminent that guide wear starts immediately...look it up after talking and seeing it with my own eyes....

RamAir972003

Sorry Dan took a while to reply heads made a little noise on cold start how do I know I have relationship with car I know her...they have wear but slightly car can still be driven....

dmuellenberg

Maybe you shouldn't have jumped the gun and claimed your guides were toast until you knew for sure then. You claim you want to help people but your speculation didn't help anyone.

RamAir972003

You know dm everything you say is always negative even in past I had my conversations with you, all you do is provoke please dont start with your remarks again please just stay out of my thread if you can't say anything useful...as for me jumping the gun how did I do that they do have guide wear not lot but still would u drive the car like dont think so and making noise at start up...lets think about that buddy...and my speculation saved my motor anytime I could have dropped a valve I drive my car some people hardly dont. Hope you can understand maybe comprehend a little bit with me that car had over 20k miles on set up and it was time to check them...You maybe dont care but I think I help on here as much as I can just being honest brother....hope you understand my frustration no offense taken I hope..sorry typing on cell phone...

Regardless me panicking you could also move guide before disassembled on head with hand clearly and hear tick tick tick now I dont know anybody that would example car could be driven still yes and risk it, how many miles 2 3 5 10 20k more who knows. 15k vs lets say 2500 3000k to refreshing and get her running again....

None of us should be going thru this situation let me ask how many miles on yours have you checked yours lately just because u don't hear anything or driven it a lot doesn't mean there can't be wear....thanks for listening...

outhouse

Nothing wrong with PM guides, provided they are not the stock pm guides.


Ive had my car 80 days, and its 90 day warranty is almost over. My heads are coming off tonight/tomorrow and being sent down to AHP Monday for their PM guides.



Simply it will more then likely be out of warranty before failure.


They are passing the buck. Admitting there is an issue would mean culpability, and they would have to back pay for ALL guide related repairs. This way they eat a few warranties, and trust me they kick a few. Odds are most cars are out of warranty before failure and they are really not out much.


Worn guides does not mean instant failure, it increases the odds of failure, because 75% of the cooling of the valve is done through the guide. When guides are worn the valve is retaining more heat and catching the lip on the seat can cause failure in some cases, but not always.


Admitting QC failure at Linamar plant for 2 years was one thing, but the failure rate is similar in all years and the problem IS dynamic. Its more then just guide clearance. So its more then just QC here.

RamAir972003

Question then wouldn't my case since I am using the GM stock pm guides help the case on that it affects clearly all years not just certain years heads clearly ITS BEEN PROVEN NOW WITH MY HEADS I HAVE PROOF....WHATS GM GOING TO SAY NOW....AGAIN THEY ATENT SHOT BUT STILL HAVE WEAR....

outhouse

No your car was modified making the pre existing issue worse.


I think it is safe to safe "most" with this issue are modified or tracked harder then most.

FSTFRC

These heads with 60,000 miles, are the cylinder heads LS7? That's a lot of mileage for c6 z06, most people don't put that kind of mileage on a Corvette. Can you share the builds of these cars?

Jimmyz28

Seems that CHE guides are the consensus bronze guides to use from my recent research. Just ordered WCCH's w/CHE guides from Vengeance.

RamAir972003

What compression u go with jimmy and what cam...

dmuellenberg

Well, when you say that your guides are worn out again and are 'toast', but then later admit that they are in spec with minimal wear, I'd say that is the definition of jumping the gun. So how does your false claim of worn out guides help the forum? All you did was start another tired debate.

FYI, I have 120,000+ miles on my Z06 - so you can't say I don't drive it much. I haven't checked lately, but as I told you before, I had the heads reworked at 100,000 and yes, some of the guides were out of spec. I've never said there wasn't a problem. I just don't think it does anyone any good to report that their heads are out of spec when in fact they aren't, that's all. I understand you are frustrated with the whole thing, I just don't agree with how you went about it.

RamAir972003

Ok well define what wear is for you...if you have any type of wear on a guide but are still capable of car being driven would u take the chance? Ok maybe I over reacted without disassembly first, but wiggling the valve by hand and it going clicky click is no good I'm sure your a smart person and not proceed to drive car, yes there have been members on here that yes there guides were horrible and still drove car till they changed them out. Ok glad we cane to an agreement in just like you said frustrated....have a good day....

RamAir972003

No I haven't and what's he care he doesn't even do ls7 or vetted anymore I mean he does know that we got into debate over why he did put pm guides in these he does not disclose any info about his head guy or shop that refreshing there heads....

These do have pac golds 660

Ferrea valves

And they look good still no damage or heat issue they will be up for sale after Darin Morgan reworks them and yes no pm guides lol bronze from now on.....

Tech

My head hurts from trying to follow this thread.

RamAir972003

Mine too brother sorry lol

Ill clean it up when I have time this week.