[Z06] MSD Intake Info (Stock vs Ported, MSD vs FAST, Mamo vs ??)
12-07-2016, 05:50 PM
#21
Team Owner
I digress though...getting off topic. Sorry Tony.
12-07-2016, 07:11 PM
#22
Team Owner
What about some of the sheet metal intakes that fit under the stock hood floating around out there? I know the short runners are an area of concern with an NA motor...but how about boost? Haven't really searched the FI section much...but shorter runners aren't a huge detriment under boost are they? I suppose, the next question would be...is there a benefit to that type of manifold over the OE intake?
I digress though...getting off topic. Sorry Tony.
I digress though...getting off topic. Sorry Tony.
12-07-2016, 10:44 PM
#24
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
I sure will....
I know the actual manufacturer of this intake (it's made in Detroit....not El Paso!). I worked with them for years while I was still at AFR (note MSD partnered with this company on the design/execution of their line of composite intake manifolds). I know for a fact this manifold was pressure tested in a special device to over 150 PSI and showed no signs of failure. That was 50 PSI above what both companies involved deemed more than acceptable.
It will laugh at any levels of boost you guys are willing to throw at it. There is nothing fragile about its design at all. A solid thick composite plastic base with stout cross ram style runners plastic welded into the base (the location of some might be an issue which I touched on earlier). Then all eight runners are bolted together for even more strength with a threaded rod that goes from front to back. The top is O-ringed around the entire perimeter with 20 or so bolts keeping it snug to the base. There is nothing that is going to fail here
I tried to provide documented independent results and real world tangible information in this thread....lets see pics and real world documentation of an MSD (or a 102 FAST for that matter which is similar construction) blown into pieces. Good luck with that. This is (unfortunately) once again a case of bad information spread around the Internet
Guys....this is what the guts of an MSD intake looks like.....find me a weak link in this simple yet robust design
Regarding power output.....another lie the Internet spreads is "You don't need a good intake manifold (or good heads) with boost.....because air is pushed into the engine, not sucked into the engine like an N/A application".
That would be incorrect....air is pushed into the engine in both situations....one of them has normal atmospheric pressure doing that job (N/A).....the other has atmospheric pressure and a little more (or alot more perhaps....14 PSI for instance would be double atmospheric pressure etc.). But it works and functions all the same....in fact you could say an N/A car at Atco raceway in December when the D/A might be approaching negative 2000 feet is experiencing a super charged effect and that wouldn't be a lie. Its probably the equivalent of a couple of lbs of boost at sea level.
Point is an N/A engine and a boosted engine all function exactly the same as I previously stated and that's an important concept to wrap your head around. Better heads....better exhaust....better CAI....anything you do to improve flow will help both an N/A combo and a forced induction combination. In fact a boosted combination has the opportunity to take even MORE advantage of better intake manifold flow because it will allow the additional air the blower is trying to cram in there to actually pass through it (not just increase the number on your boost gauge which is simply a function of back pressure....not horsepower!).
So if you are running boost you could actually see higher gains on a F/I application swapping to one of my ported MSD's....especially if the rest of the combination is ripe to accept the extra airflow the intake is able to pass through it (good heads, 2" headers, etc. etc.)
OK....enough myth busting for one post....LOL....hope this info helps!
-Tony
I know the actual manufacturer of this intake (it's made in Detroit....not El Paso!). I worked with them for years while I was still at AFR (note MSD partnered with this company on the design/execution of their line of composite intake manifolds). I know for a fact this manifold was pressure tested in a special device to over 150 PSI and showed no signs of failure. That was 50 PSI above what both companies involved deemed more than acceptable.
It will laugh at any levels of boost you guys are willing to throw at it. There is nothing fragile about its design at all. A solid thick composite plastic base with stout cross ram style runners plastic welded into the base (the location of some might be an issue which I touched on earlier). Then all eight runners are bolted together for even more strength with a threaded rod that goes from front to back. The top is O-ringed around the entire perimeter with 20 or so bolts keeping it snug to the base. There is nothing that is going to fail here
I tried to provide documented independent results and real world tangible information in this thread....lets see pics and real world documentation of an MSD (or a 102 FAST for that matter which is similar construction) blown into pieces. Good luck with that. This is (unfortunately) once again a case of bad information spread around the Internet
Guys....this is what the guts of an MSD intake looks like.....find me a weak link in this simple yet robust design
Regarding power output.....another lie the Internet spreads is "You don't need a good intake manifold (or good heads) with boost.....because air is pushed into the engine, not sucked into the engine like an N/A application".
That would be incorrect....air is pushed into the engine in both situations....one of them has normal atmospheric pressure doing that job (N/A).....the other has atmospheric pressure and a little more (or alot more perhaps....14 PSI for instance would be double atmospheric pressure etc.). But it works and functions all the same....in fact you could say an N/A car at Atco raceway in December when the D/A might be approaching negative 2000 feet is experiencing a super charged effect and that wouldn't be a lie. Its probably the equivalent of a couple of lbs of boost at sea level.
Point is an N/A engine and a boosted engine all function exactly the same as I previously stated and that's an important concept to wrap your head around. Better heads....better exhaust....better CAI....anything you do to improve flow will help both an N/A combo and a forced induction combination. In fact a boosted combination has the opportunity to take even MORE advantage of better intake manifold flow because it will allow the additional air the blower is trying to cram in there to actually pass through it (not just increase the number on your boost gauge which is simply a function of back pressure....not horsepower!).
So if you are running boost you could actually see higher gains on a F/I application swapping to one of my ported MSD's....especially if the rest of the combination is ripe to accept the extra airflow the intake is able to pass through it (good heads, 2" headers, etc. etc.)
OK....enough myth busting for one post....LOL....hope this info helps!
-Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 12-08-2016 at 02:49 AM.
12-07-2016, 11:11 PM
#25
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
I also wanted to thank some of the guys that took the time to post in this thread, who shared some positive experiences about my products, customer service etc....word of mouth is pretty much what my business is built on and its much appreciated!
Thought grabbing a few more pics of the base/runner design might be helpful for some folks....this is the front of the intake with the teflon lock nut that ties and locks all the runners together with the long threaded rod I mentioned in my last post
And here is the rear view....no nut on the back....that's a threaded insert that the rod is screwed into behind the rear most runner (it acts just like a nut on the back). I believe there is loctite on the back of that rod when its assembled at the factory....some manifolds you can see the leftover loctite behind the insert (in fact you can see traces in this pic also)
Regards,
Tony
Thought grabbing a few more pics of the base/runner design might be helpful for some folks....this is the front of the intake with the teflon lock nut that ties and locks all the runners together with the long threaded rod I mentioned in my last post
And here is the rear view....no nut on the back....that's a threaded insert that the rod is screwed into behind the rear most runner (it acts just like a nut on the back). I believe there is loctite on the back of that rod when its assembled at the factory....some manifolds you can see the leftover loctite behind the insert (in fact you can see traces in this pic also)
Regards,
Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 12-08-2016 at 02:36 AM.
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95rtturbo (12-12-2016)
12-08-2016, 12:54 AM
#26
Melting Slicks
Thanks for the great information Tony. Very detailed, easy to follow, somehow my brain adds your voice when I'm reading your comments and it adds to the entertainment value.
I've written it a dozen times, but I'll write it again. Tony is the best. Straight forward, no non-sense, parts get returned very well-packaged and usually with another T-Shirt. And most importantly, the heads/manifolds move the most air through the smallest runners. No inflated claims, just results. I was a Marine Officer so I really respected a vendor who wouldn't put his name on something unless he believes in it, a quality that gets seared into officers...that our word and our signature is the "...special trust and confidence..." for why we were commissioned. Also, free T-Shirts.
I've written it a dozen times, but I'll write it again. Tony is the best. Straight forward, no non-sense, parts get returned very well-packaged and usually with another T-Shirt. And most importantly, the heads/manifolds move the most air through the smallest runners. No inflated claims, just results. I was a Marine Officer so I really respected a vendor who wouldn't put his name on something unless he believes in it, a quality that gets seared into officers...that our word and our signature is the "...special trust and confidence..." for why we were commissioned. Also, free T-Shirts.
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12-08-2016, 02:42 AM
#27
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
It was alot heavier before moving to the left coast 16 years ago!
PS....Looking forward to the results of out project together Josh....Im making headway on those exhaust ports....still hoping to ship the heads by the 16th which puts them in your hands before the Holiday break
12-08-2016, 08:24 AM
#28
Team Owner
I'll stay out of this thread since its Tony's, but I've seen several fast come apart and have pictures of them. Stock manifolds that are also nice thick pieces come apart at a certain level. Was just talking to a guy last week that has blown apart 3 stock plastic intakes.
Anyways, Tonys MSDs are awesome.
Anyways, Tonys MSDs are awesome.
12-08-2016, 09:06 AM
#29
Melting Slicks
Do you get the (moderately tamed) NY accent when reading some of the words as well!?....LOL
It was alot heavier before moving to the left coast 16 years ago!
PS....Looking forward to the results of out project together Josh....Im making headway on those exhaust ports....still hoping to ship the heads by the 16th which puts them in your hands before the Holiday break
It was alot heavier before moving to the left coast 16 years ago!
PS....Looking forward to the results of out project together Josh....Im making headway on those exhaust ports....still hoping to ship the heads by the 16th which puts them in your hands before the Holiday break
Can't wait to start wrenching again! Everything just grinds to a stop during the holidays so that is awesome to get the heads before that, thanks!
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HC Mechanic (12-15-2017)
12-08-2016, 11:51 AM
#31
Granted this was the first time using a non DP system on the MSD but it appears to effect fueling with a wet shot. I should also say I don't think this has anything to do with the Mamo porting, just the MSD design.
Last edited by lt1z; 12-08-2016 at 11:52 AM.
12-10-2016, 12:31 AM
#32
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
But....the MSD design is a straighter shot runner and due to that fact is more in the way of the entry of the intake manifold (I will have to grab a pic of this later and repost here). Close to half the entry way of the TB opening has a line of sight to the wall of the first runner....there is room for the air to go on top or below but perhaps a little more attention has to be paid to the direction of the nozzle upstream of the TB if you have that type of set-up.
In Matt's test it still picked up on spray but only made 5 more HP on spray than with the FAST versus the comparison normally aspirated where my ported MSD showed a 22 RWHP advantage over the FAST.
It would be interesting to move and aim the nozzle slightly different with the MSD intake....I would be surprised if it didnt change the results slightly.
Either way the numbers were higher with the ported MSD....they were just alot higher normally aspirated.....but no matter how you slice it, it's still the definitive intake to own for the LS7 platform (versus the FAST which is better in most applications running a cathedral head). Perhaps one of you guys spraying an MSD in this fashion (single nozzle down stream from the TB) acould actually test my theory about the repositioning of the nozzle potentially improving the power output if it was aimed more optimally toward the (open) lower part of the plenum.
-Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 12-10-2016 at 12:34 AM.
12-10-2016, 09:48 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 1,078
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St. Jude Donor '13
Matt and I discussed this briefly....I think the aiming of the nozzle if your injecting nitrous in front of the TB (versus direct port) is more critical on the MSD to maximize the fueling and the gains from the kit. I know others spraying as well with my ported MSD and haven't had any issues
But....the MSD design is a straighter shot runner and due to that fact is more in the way of the entry of the intake manifold (I will have to grab a pic of this later and repost here). Close to half the entry way of the TB opening has a line of sight to the wall of the first runner....there is room for the air to go on top or below but perhaps a little more attention has to be paid to the direction of the nozzle upstream of the TB if you have that type of set-up.
In Matt's test it still picked up on spray but only made 5 more HP on spray than with the FAST versus the comparison normally aspirated where my ported MSD showed a 22 RWHP advantage over the FAST.
It would be interesting to move and aim the nozzle slightly different with the MSD intake....I would be surprised if it didnt change the results slightly.
Either way the numbers were higher with the ported MSD....they were just alot higher normally aspirated.....but no matter how you slice it, it's still the definitive intake to own for the LS7 platform (versus the FAST which is better in most applications running a cathedral head). Perhaps one of you guys spraying an MSD in this fashion (single nozzle down stream from the TB) acould actually test my theory about the repositioning of the nozzle potentially improving the power output if it was aimed more optimally toward the (open) lower part of the plenum.
-Tony
But....the MSD design is a straighter shot runner and due to that fact is more in the way of the entry of the intake manifold (I will have to grab a pic of this later and repost here). Close to half the entry way of the TB opening has a line of sight to the wall of the first runner....there is room for the air to go on top or below but perhaps a little more attention has to be paid to the direction of the nozzle upstream of the TB if you have that type of set-up.
In Matt's test it still picked up on spray but only made 5 more HP on spray than with the FAST versus the comparison normally aspirated where my ported MSD showed a 22 RWHP advantage over the FAST.
It would be interesting to move and aim the nozzle slightly different with the MSD intake....I would be surprised if it didnt change the results slightly.
Either way the numbers were higher with the ported MSD....they were just alot higher normally aspirated.....but no matter how you slice it, it's still the definitive intake to own for the LS7 platform (versus the FAST which is better in most applications running a cathedral head). Perhaps one of you guys spraying an MSD in this fashion (single nozzle down stream from the TB) acould actually test my theory about the repositioning of the nozzle potentially improving the power output if it was aimed more optimally toward the (open) lower part of the plenum.
-Tony
12-11-2016, 11:33 PM
#34
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
Do you think the same holds true with methanol injection? (aim it at the lower portion of the intake manifold opening) I was initially thinking of aiming methanol towards the upper portion because the AIT sensor would be positioned there. It makes more sense to aim at the lower portion of the TB opening with less obstructions to reach the back of the manifold.
Here is the entrance of the intake.....you can see what I mean by the runner is in the line of sight of half the throttle bore opening (there is room for air to go above the runner btw but not as more room as down below).
Aiming towards the lower part of the plenum would make more sense to me.
Thought this was a good picture to share also.....LOL
Various MSD's in the works (most of them with the Stealth top option!).....I bought alot of inventory before the price moves up Jan 1st of next year. Still trying to get ahead of the curve and put a few on the shelf for immediate delivery.....at least the lead times are more reasonable now (a few weeks typically.....sometimes less)
Cheers,
Tony
12-12-2016, 07:32 AM
#35
Melting Slicks
I think I see mine there on the shelf.
12-12-2016, 10:14 AM
#36
Drifting
Member Since: Nov 2011
Location: Chesterfield (St. Louis) MO
Posts: 1,377
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LOL re: NY accent! I thought you sounded like a New Yorker when speaking with you on the phone... I wasn't expecting it due to the location of your shop (CA), and not knowing where you came from. 
Someone should start a post about who has the most Mamo T Shirts...
Someone should start a post about who has the most Mamo T Shirts...
12-12-2016, 02:03 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
Can not say enough good things about Tony's work. As a long time customer of Tony's, he is the best period. He is the King of Airflow!
Thanks for all of your help Tony and look forward to another car project soon.
Joel G
Thanks for all of your help Tony and look forward to another car project soon.
Joel G
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95rtturbo (12-12-2016)
12-13-2016, 06:09 PM
#38
Drifting
Really great and informative thread here. Props to Tony Mamo.
12-16-2016, 07:11 PM
#40
Instructor
Below is my Before and After coming from stock MSD to Ported MSD. No other changes were made. Same dyno, wheels, tires, etc.. Tony is the man! 
Also, for people asking about them holding boost. There is a local Twin Turbo z06 running around with one that makes over 1200whp on 23-25lbs of boost with no issues. These intake are very sturdy and I wouldn't have any reservations about them holding a lot of boost.
Here is my before/after graph
Also, for people asking about them holding boost. There is a local Twin Turbo z06 running around with one that makes over 1200whp on 23-25lbs of boost with no issues. These intake are very sturdy and I wouldn't have any reservations about them holding a lot of boost.
Here is my before/after graph