[Z06] MSD Intake Info (Stock vs Ported, MSD vs FAST, Mamo vs ??)
12-07-2016, 04:27 AM
#1
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
MSD Intake Info (Stock vs Ported, MSD vs FAST, Mamo vs ??)
Guys,
I know this topic has been the subject of numerous threads but coming from my perspective, no matter how many independent threads come up with folks touting the gains from the work I did, so many people I speak with still question "Is it worth it....will I see a difference"....blah blah blah. I suspect this comes from a past history of buying mods that were underwhelming (or didn't work at all) when the smoke cleared which is certainly a sucky feeling after spending all the cash. I think that in some respects, guys that have been through this (no matter how much info is out there), the "Doubting Thomas" in most manages to get the upper hand unfortunately.
So with that out of the way if you are on the fence and need more convincing as to why you should be doing business with me I have some....LOL....but its a bit of a long read so grab a cup of your favorite beverage and enjoy
First topic....ported vs unported
I have touched on this numerous times in other threads so Im not going to spend alot of time here. The abridged version is the MSD is rough out of the box...some alot worse than others I might add. I have seen partial injector holes closed from plastic flashing....big mismatches from the runner to runner base transition. They are very much a moving target so the gains going from unported to ported will also be a moving target but so far I have three independent scenarios provided by my customers, two of them showing to be 20 or more horsepower gained from ported vs unported....the most recent showing close to double that (clearly his stock intake was one of the worst of the "moving targets" I mentioned earlier). Here is a copy of the dyno sheet that customer just provided me today. Same car....same dyno....same tuner....no other changes except removing his stock MSD and installing one of my ported MSD's instead.
That picture says a thousand words so there is no need to elaborate.
The other two situations can be found by clicking these links if you would like to see other independent validation of how worth it the porting is over a stock unported MSD
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...orted-msd.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...tony-mamo.html
2nd Topic (MSD vs Ported FAST)
Heard back from a well known tuner this morning after he recently swapped on one of my ported MSD intakes in place of a FAST
Also self explanatory and backing up many other customer testimonials I have handled in the last year that have had the opportunity to do the same (swap on a ported MSD in place of a ported FAST). The least power I have seen or heard about was 15 RWHP.....the most was 29 RWHP, and the rest was all in between those amounts in the low mid 20's similar to these results I heard or found out about this morning. Once again, if you have the time and would like to read more, this is another thread discussing the gains of my ported MSD versus the ported FAST with a handful of other results scattered in the thread as well (trying to keep this thread of reasonable length!)
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...msd-gains.html
3rd Topic....Mamo Motorsports porting vs ??
Another hot topic if your sitting in my seat. I get calls that sound like this sometimes....."Well known shop XYZ sells a ported MSD and charges half of what you do to port it. Im sure it all works the same".
NO....it doesnt....and its usually apples and oranges. Just like all "ported heads" dont work the same, a ported manifold is only as good as the guy wielding the grinder. What is his background....how much R&D has been invested....how talented and consistent is he with the grinder. Lets face it there are a hundred variables here. I have been designing cylinder heads and intake manifolds for the better part of twenty years professionally....what are the qualifications of the guy at shop XYZ....is their specialty and expertise truly related to designing the most efficient "air paths". Especially working with these composite intakes.... I pioneered porting these FAST 90's and 92's back in 2004 when most shops were asking why and telling their customers you didnt have to. I could fill a garage with all the plastic I have removed from them over the years which brings me to my last show and tell of the day.
This is a bag of chips we just removed from an unported brand new MSD. I should say at least the bulk of which we could clean up off the bench top when we were through....some of it inevitably flies on your clothing and on the floor close by but this is what we swept off a clean work station after one brand new MSD LS7 intake was ported. In essence here is what "volume" of porting is required to add 20+ ponies to your bottom line! (Coke can inserted for "scale")
Its a significant amount of carefully/strategically removed material and it can take up to 10 hours to complete an intake from start to finish.
Now....here is a pile of plastic we removed from a customer's manifold that was previously "ported" (all sounds and reads the same) from a well know shop. Dont ask because I wont name names....it doesn't matter....I see this type of thing all the time.
Not much different right....its no surprise as this intake was just a "shine job".....it was sandrolled a couple of inches at the outlet and that's it. There was no real material removal....just enough done to hopefully have the unsuspecting customer not ask questions when he removed it from the box.
Will do one better....we weighed the chips in the exact same gallon size/brand ziplock bag
Essentially the other shop removed 5% of what we take out when we completely port an LS7 MSD intake. Was half the porting cost worth it? Hell you could have had more fun lighting those Ben Franklins on fire in front of your friends because you certainly didnt add any additional horsepower to your bottom line with the porting money you sent to shop XYZ
To be real honest I could be a lot more profitable charging half the money I normally do and only do 10% of the work right? I would sell a ton more manifolds and I could probably get through one of these intakes in well under an hour if that was what I was willing to put my name on and kick out the door. That's not what Im about and those of you that know me and have dealt with me (or followed my career over the years) know the pride and effort I invest in anything Im willing to put my name on. I try to offer you guys the best value and value doesnt always mean spending less money....in fact life has shown me it's usually just the opposite. Be willing to spend a little more if it gets you ALOT more....get the most benefit from the dollars you spend and sometimes that entails spending more dollars.
And that's IT....Im off my soap box....hope you guys enjoyed and learned a little from what I spent a fair bit of time writing tonight.....and if your reading this and own an LS7 powered hot rod and dont have my MSD intake yet....seriously....its the best power per dollar your likely to invest in your car. Keep in mind all the examples provided in this thread were ported MSD versus unported....ported MSD vs ported FAST....most of the guys Im helping with stock inductions are seeing in the vicinity of 40 RWHP or better on the more aggressive builds. Thats an incredible amount of power for a Saturday afternoon spent bolting on an intake manifold.....you guys need to be all over this.
One last example for you guys....here is a thread (and a dyno graph for the lazy) to see what kind of gains you can see going from a stock LS7 intake/TB to one of my ported MSD intakes on a fairly aggressive build (BTR Stg 4 etc.)
And the thread discussing those results if your wanting to read in more detail about the swap
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ort-gains.html
Guys, thanks for taking the time to read all this....did my best to stay on point and still cover all the ground I wanted to concerning the various topics I deal with often speaking to perspective customers about this intake and the porting itself.
If any of you have any questions, would like to get something ordered perhaps etc; dont hesitate to PM, email me, or pick up the phone.
Cheers,
Tony
I know this topic has been the subject of numerous threads but coming from my perspective, no matter how many independent threads come up with folks touting the gains from the work I did, so many people I speak with still question "Is it worth it....will I see a difference"....blah blah blah. I suspect this comes from a past history of buying mods that were underwhelming (or didn't work at all) when the smoke cleared which is certainly a sucky feeling after spending all the cash. I think that in some respects, guys that have been through this (no matter how much info is out there), the "Doubting Thomas" in most manages to get the upper hand unfortunately.
So with that out of the way if you are on the fence and need more convincing as to why you should be doing business with me I have some....LOL....but its a bit of a long read so grab a cup of your favorite beverage and enjoy
First topic....ported vs unported
I have touched on this numerous times in other threads so Im not going to spend alot of time here. The abridged version is the MSD is rough out of the box...some alot worse than others I might add. I have seen partial injector holes closed from plastic flashing....big mismatches from the runner to runner base transition. They are very much a moving target so the gains going from unported to ported will also be a moving target but so far I have three independent scenarios provided by my customers, two of them showing to be 20 or more horsepower gained from ported vs unported....the most recent showing close to double that (clearly his stock intake was one of the worst of the "moving targets" I mentioned earlier). Here is a copy of the dyno sheet that customer just provided me today. Same car....same dyno....same tuner....no other changes except removing his stock MSD and installing one of my ported MSD's instead.
That picture says a thousand words so there is no need to elaborate.
The other two situations can be found by clicking these links if you would like to see other independent validation of how worth it the porting is over a stock unported MSD
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...orted-msd.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...tony-mamo.html
2nd Topic (MSD vs Ported FAST)
Heard back from a well known tuner this morning after he recently swapped on one of my ported MSD intakes in place of a FAST
Also self explanatory and backing up many other customer testimonials I have handled in the last year that have had the opportunity to do the same (swap on a ported MSD in place of a ported FAST). The least power I have seen or heard about was 15 RWHP.....the most was 29 RWHP, and the rest was all in between those amounts in the low mid 20's similar to these results I heard or found out about this morning. Once again, if you have the time and would like to read more, this is another thread discussing the gains of my ported MSD versus the ported FAST with a handful of other results scattered in the thread as well (trying to keep this thread of reasonable length!)
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...msd-gains.html
3rd Topic....Mamo Motorsports porting vs ??
Another hot topic if your sitting in my seat. I get calls that sound like this sometimes....."Well known shop XYZ sells a ported MSD and charges half of what you do to port it. Im sure it all works the same".
NO....it doesnt....and its usually apples and oranges. Just like all "ported heads" dont work the same, a ported manifold is only as good as the guy wielding the grinder. What is his background....how much R&D has been invested....how talented and consistent is he with the grinder. Lets face it there are a hundred variables here. I have been designing cylinder heads and intake manifolds for the better part of twenty years professionally....what are the qualifications of the guy at shop XYZ....is their specialty and expertise truly related to designing the most efficient "air paths". Especially working with these composite intakes.... I pioneered porting these FAST 90's and 92's back in 2004 when most shops were asking why and telling their customers you didnt have to. I could fill a garage with all the plastic I have removed from them over the years which brings me to my last show and tell of the day.
This is a bag of chips we just removed from an unported brand new MSD. I should say at least the bulk of which we could clean up off the bench top when we were through....some of it inevitably flies on your clothing and on the floor close by but this is what we swept off a clean work station after one brand new MSD LS7 intake was ported. In essence here is what "volume" of porting is required to add 20+ ponies to your bottom line! (Coke can inserted for "scale")
Its a significant amount of carefully/strategically removed material and it can take up to 10 hours to complete an intake from start to finish.
Now....here is a pile of plastic we removed from a customer's manifold that was previously "ported" (all sounds and reads the same) from a well know shop. Dont ask because I wont name names....it doesn't matter....I see this type of thing all the time.
Not much different right....its no surprise as this intake was just a "shine job".....it was sandrolled a couple of inches at the outlet and that's it. There was no real material removal....just enough done to hopefully have the unsuspecting customer not ask questions when he removed it from the box.
Will do one better....we weighed the chips in the exact same gallon size/brand ziplock bag
Essentially the other shop removed 5% of what we take out when we completely port an LS7 MSD intake. Was half the porting cost worth it? Hell you could have had more fun lighting those Ben Franklins on fire in front of your friends because you certainly didnt add any additional horsepower to your bottom line with the porting money you sent to shop XYZ
To be real honest I could be a lot more profitable charging half the money I normally do and only do 10% of the work right? I would sell a ton more manifolds and I could probably get through one of these intakes in well under an hour if that was what I was willing to put my name on and kick out the door. That's not what Im about and those of you that know me and have dealt with me (or followed my career over the years) know the pride and effort I invest in anything Im willing to put my name on. I try to offer you guys the best value and value doesnt always mean spending less money....in fact life has shown me it's usually just the opposite. Be willing to spend a little more if it gets you ALOT more....get the most benefit from the dollars you spend and sometimes that entails spending more dollars.
And that's IT....Im off my soap box....hope you guys enjoyed and learned a little from what I spent a fair bit of time writing tonight.....and if your reading this and own an LS7 powered hot rod and dont have my MSD intake yet....seriously....its the best power per dollar your likely to invest in your car. Keep in mind all the examples provided in this thread were ported MSD versus unported....ported MSD vs ported FAST....most of the guys Im helping with stock inductions are seeing in the vicinity of 40 RWHP or better on the more aggressive builds. Thats an incredible amount of power for a Saturday afternoon spent bolting on an intake manifold.....you guys need to be all over this.
One last example for you guys....here is a thread (and a dyno graph for the lazy) to see what kind of gains you can see going from a stock LS7 intake/TB to one of my ported MSD intakes on a fairly aggressive build (BTR Stg 4 etc.)
And the thread discussing those results if your wanting to read in more detail about the swap
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ort-gains.html
Guys, thanks for taking the time to read all this....did my best to stay on point and still cover all the ground I wanted to concerning the various topics I deal with often speaking to perspective customers about this intake and the porting itself.
If any of you have any questions, would like to get something ordered perhaps etc; dont hesitate to PM, email me, or pick up the phone.
Cheers,
Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 12-07-2016 at 04:56 AM.
The following 12 users liked this post by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports:
95rtturbo (12-12-2016),
AzDave47 (12-07-2016),
CammedC6520 (07-01-2017),
ElisTwoCents (12-15-2019),
fred_S (02-06-2018),
and 7 others liked this post.
12-07-2016, 06:38 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Tony's work speaks for itself
My intake and TB are a piece of work, shame I had to put it on the car
Worth the money, you will not regret it
P.S. Love the shirt
My intake and TB are a piece of work, shame I had to put it on the car
Worth the money, you will not regret it
P.S. Love the shirt
Last edited by Whis9; 12-07-2016 at 06:40 AM.
12-07-2016, 07:55 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
I am getting mine in the next week or so. I got the stealth black one. Also getting a few other things from Tony.
12-07-2016, 09:21 AM
#4
Drifting
I don't have a comparison, but I can tell you that Tony's work is worth the money. He's helped me out with both my previous C5 Z06 and my current C6 Z06. My C6Z with a VERY mild cam, Tony's MSD, NW102, headers, K&N and Corsa exhaust laid down 556/490 this past fall. Very pleased with his products and service!
The following users liked this post:
95rtturbo (12-12-2016)
12-07-2016, 10:20 AM
#5
Team Owner
Thanks, Tony! You have always taken the time to answer questions...even repeated questions...on this forum.
Having said that, for a mild build (mild cam, stock-ish slightly worked heads, through catted exhaust) is the MSD worth the investment? And to further that, would a lightly ported MSD be even more worth it?
Thanks again for all your support!
Having said that, for a mild build (mild cam, stock-ish slightly worked heads, through catted exhaust) is the MSD worth the investment? And to further that, would a lightly ported MSD be even more worth it?
Thanks again for all your support!
12-07-2016, 11:11 AM
#7
I really enjoy Tony's posts. Im hoping to get a mamo ported intake in the future and having a local shop tune...maybe I can do the install.
Another thing I need to start looking into is the throttle body. What would I see with a ported MSD if using a NW throttle body vs a stock ported and if the extra money in the NW is worth it.
With a kid on the way, hp per $ is a big focus.
Another thing I need to start looking into is the throttle body. What would I see with a ported MSD if using a NW throttle body vs a stock ported and if the extra money in the NW is worth it.
With a kid on the way, hp per $ is a big focus.
12-07-2016, 11:37 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
Tony - I didn't get a shirt?? 
I noticed a driveability difference big time with it and the 102 - too bad I think it's slightly rubbing my firewall - springtime fix.
I noticed a driveability difference big time with it and the 102 - too bad I think it's slightly rubbing my firewall - springtime fix.
12-07-2016, 11:56 AM
#9
Instructor
My drivability is phenomenal with my stock MSD/NW102/big cam combo.
My tuner also spent 2-3 hours with off-dyno tuning.
Looks like I'll be sending mine off for a port-job soon with those results.
12-07-2016, 12:03 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
12-07-2016, 12:04 PM
#11
They flat out work if you have the budget for chasing every last hp in your combo. Obviously you need good heads and a decent sized cam to take full advantage. The last two cars I worked on with these manifolds made 625/542 and 642/555. The lower of the two was actually more impressive considering it has ported stock casting heads with less compression and 1 7/8" headers along with a similar cam.
Last edited by lt1z; 12-07-2016 at 12:08 PM.
12-07-2016, 12:27 PM
#13
Team Owner
Great comparison thread!
12-07-2016, 12:27 PM
#14
Safety Car
12-07-2016, 02:24 PM
#16
Team Owner
I've always read the Fast intakes had problems staying sealed under boost...I can only presume these would be the same. Especially with all the gasket/fitment/re-torqueing bolt issues associated with these. I'm sure somebody out there has tried by now though...
12-07-2016, 02:36 PM
#17
Team Owner
Fast not only like to lose seals, they blow apart and break. I talked to Tony about doing a MSD ported, but after seeing some in person, no way in hell I would put a bunch of boost through one.
12-07-2016, 02:42 PM
#18
They do best in N/A applications. The MSD also doesn't do very well with a wet shot by plate or fogger in front of the TB. Direct port would be the way to go there. The design does not work as well as the Fast or stock intake for nitrous unless using a DP.
Last edited by lt1z; 12-07-2016 at 02:43 PM.
12-07-2016, 05:27 PM
#20
Instructor