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[Z06] Stay Away from Dedicated Motorsports

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Old 05-16-2017, 03:25 PM
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Josh B.
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Default Stay Away from Dedicated Motorsports

I really hate passing along this kind of information but I really hate shops that rip off ideas and pass them off as their own. Dave Steck launched his DSXtuning.com website and made his tuning and flex fuel products and harnesses available only there. As he transitioned away from Dedicated Motorsports he took his DSX designed products with him. Well.....Dedicated Motorsports has launched and relabeled several DSX flex fuel kits under the DMS label.

For the Z06 owners out there interested in buying products from the people who devote themselves to their craft, I would stay away from DMS. Intead of ceasing the sale of DSX products DMS just ripped them off instead. No ethics, just intellectual property theft. Every shop has their pros/cons, but this case is particularly disturbing, especially if you have seen firsthand just how much detail DSX pours into their kits.

I hope there are legal consequences that come of this, but regardless of that, I would not patronize DMS again. Just bad business.
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:42 PM
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I hear and agree with you in large part, but many large corporations retain legal rights to all inventions and designs by their employees, whilst employed by said corporations. In fact, the original designer may even be legally barred from selling his own designs after he left if the corporation wanted to press it. No idea what the situation is in your case, but look at the guy who invented Post-it notes for 3M - 3M had all the rights to them and not the inventor.
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:44 PM
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When did Dave leave Dedicated?

Isnt that where he tuned your car last month?

Has he severed all business dealings with them?
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:46 PM
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Those are great points that you made. However, the DSX kit was developed before Dave was employed by DMS, they were all pre-existing.

The ethics bother me a great deal.
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Old 05-16-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rjacobs View Post
When did Dave leave Dedicated?

Isnt that where he tuned your car last month?

Has he severed all business dealings with them?
Dave left several weeks ago, his announcements for standing up DSXTuning.com were on FB. Yes, Dave was and IS my tuner, and I am extremely satisfied with all elements of his expertise and support.

According to Dave's announcements, he would only interact with DMS in a limited capacity as a tuner. All product related dealings were severed, however.
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Old 05-16-2017, 04:24 PM
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It seems like the previous deal between the two was mutually beneficial. Dave had the expertise to design a high quality Flex Fuel product line, and Dedicated had a way to get maximum market exposure. Certainly can't fault Dave for wanting to be in total control of his product line. Perhaps he had the foresight to protect his product designs. It's a complicated situation, and after the split maybe Dedicated benefits more than Dave in the short term, which would seem unfair. In the end Dave has full control of his products, and the potential to far exceed whatever deal he had in place with Dedicated. It looks like a slap in the face if they just flat out ripped off exact copies of his products. When they could have agreed to continue purchasing them for resale for a period of time before transitioning to their own line of similar products. Based on the expertise Dave has in his field and the quality of products he puts out, I bet he will look back at this and know he made the right move.

Last edited by redcycle13; 05-16-2017 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 05-16-2017, 04:37 PM
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How much of the flex fuel kits are not GM products?

Whether or not what they did is illegal, may hinge on how much of the kit was custom. I'm not trying to diminish the value of the kits or Dave's effort/ingenuity, but I'm not sure how much IP there is. I don't have a kit to know much more than what I see on the internet.

Last edited by Tech; 05-17-2017 at 01:18 PM. Reason: After reading Dedicated's response, too much gray area to condemn them
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Old 05-16-2017, 05:08 PM
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I just compared the photos on the sites. So what did they rip off? The wire harness? Or the idea in general? Looks like the plumbing is different and it's just a GM sensor, right?
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Old 05-16-2017, 05:21 PM
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Here are some examples of DMS relabeling DSX kits. Every component is identical.

DSX:



DMS relabel:
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Old 05-16-2017, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh B. View Post
Here are some examples of DMS relabeling DSX kits. Every component is identical.

DSX:



DMS relabel:
Ah ok.. I just looked at the C6 stuff. Looks like they are both sourcing the plumbing from the same place.
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Old 05-16-2017, 05:44 PM
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Heard about this earlier today. It sucks. Dave is awesome.

Hopefully his new business is successful, and I definitely would not deal or recommend DMS after what went down with them/Dave.
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Old 05-16-2017, 09:49 PM
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Well as from past experience and learnings you can copy a product as long as its 20% different than the other item....for example look at headers look at American racings and look at everyone else's...hope this helps
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:33 AM
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Where to start.

There is a lot more to this story. Not everyone knows the entire story and this is not the place to tell it. The one thing that should be known is. Dedicated Motorsports has been manufacturing and selling Flex Fuel kits from day one. It was our first and biggest capitol investment. We cannot simply forget that.

The kit you posted was designed and test fit on a car at DMS with my own hands. The picture you posted is a image that was taken from the DMS website and the logo removed before being used on the DSX page here's the original image. Guess who owns the nearly $4000 crimp machine to make those hoses? DMS does.




I'm not here to bash Dave or Josh. They're both great guys. What I'm here to say is, there's two sides to every story and a whole back story to this. I'm far from a crook and I'm not even remotely close to a guy who walks around stealing ideas. I'm a business man who cares about my business and its employee's.

Matt

Last edited by Dedicated-Matt; 05-17-2017 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:14 PM
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You're a great guy too Matt, that is not in dispute. DSX is almost synonymous with flex fuel and everyone knows that it was Dave's first and biggest product. I don't think DMS is reknowned for the same thing. Respecting the fact that there are always two sides to any story, I don't see how there are two sides to flex fuel kits and components being the property of two entities when they existed before Dave was employed at DMS.

If I could offer a recommendation it would be to focus on DMS products and not relabel any DSX products. You have a nice facility and the ability to make some great original products, but capitalizing off of Dave's designs will not sit will with average Joe consumers like me. I question the ethics involved in your decision making and I would not recommend anyone patronize your company. I hope you will make the right decision to focus on your own products.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:23 PM
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It douchetastic.

There are plenty of shops that buy/install DSX parts without ripping them off. I would strongly suggest doing that instead of copying.
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:43 PM
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Again there is way more to this than meets the eye.

From my point of view these are my products. I bought them with a capitol investment, before DSX was a real company and before Dave worked for DMS. From our first date of business we've put all of our focus on branding, marketing, dealer networking and standing behind the products. The amount of time and money invested in making this one of the most popular flex fuel kits was not simply handed to DMS. We were the only people manufacturing the kits. I have 4 employee's dedicated to manufacturing these products, why? Because that is what our company does and has been doing since day one.

Not to mention a lot of these products have been 100% designed, engineered, tested and manufactured under the DMS roof.

That's why I'm asking to stop and think before bashing my company. If the whole story was laid out on paper you guys would be singing a different tune. The fact that I'm not posting everything is out of respect for Dave.
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dedicated-Matt View Post
Again there is way more to this than meets the eye.

From my point of view these are my products. wow I bought them with a capitol investment, before DSX was a real company and before Dave worked for DMS. From our first date of business we've put all of our focus on branding, marketing, dealer networking and standing behind the products. The amount of time and money invested in making this one of the most popular flex fuel kits was not simply handed to DMS. We were the only people manufacturing the kits. I have 4 employee's dedicated to manufacturing these products, why? Because that is what our company does and has been doing since day one.

Not to mention a lot of these products have been 100% designed, engineered, tested and manufactured under the DMS roof.

That's why I'm asking to stop and think before bashing my company. If the whole story was laid out on paper you guys would be singing a different tune. The fact that I'm not posting everything is out of respect for Dave.
I wanted to reply directly to this quote because any reasonable person would edit it once they take a step back and note how purposely misleading it is. If you want to respect Dave, why don't you give him credit for the products he created? Products that were marketed as DSX Tuning Flex Fuel kits on your webpage until just recently? If you read your statement you will note that you admit you marketed his products since day one. If DMS developed the products, how were they available since day one? There is something intangible that you can't possibly deny, and that's the support and knowledge that Dave has brought to the LS community with flex fuel tuning. Before I contacted Dave almost 3 years ago I knew he was the flex fuel kit guru and I contacted him for a flex fuel tune. I only knew him by reputation. So no amount of "marketing" that you claim to have made from DMS means anything compared to the volume of marketing that Dave has made on different forums.

I think you're underestimating how much people hate bad business ethics. DSX will continue to be known for these products, and the products that he brings to market in the future, and I don't think this issue is going away, people are going to remember. Everyone knows what happens to the company that rips off other people's stuff.
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dedicated-Matt View Post
Again there is way more to this than meets the eye.

From my point of view these are my products. I bought them with a capitol investment, before DSX was a real company and before Dave worked for DMS. From our first date of business we've put all of our focus on branding, marketing, dealer networking and standing behind the products. The amount of time and money invested in making this one of the most popular flex fuel kits was not simply handed to DMS. We were the only people manufacturing the kits. I have 4 employee's dedicated to manufacturing these products, why? Because that is what our company does and has been doing since day one.

Not to mention a lot of these products have been 100% designed, engineered, tested and manufactured under the DMS roof.

That's why I'm asking to stop and think before bashing my company. If the whole story was laid out on paper you guys would be singing a different tune. The fact that I'm not posting everything is out of respect for Dave.

I know for a fact the Flex fuel kits were designed and done before Dave was working with you. I helped him build the harnesses prior. I'd venture to guess most of these products Dave had a big hand in designing and testing. You may have to tools to manufacture on a bigger level than him but they are still his products imo
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:11 PM
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:00 PM
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There is way more than you guys understand. Cover up one of your eyes and look at the world. THAT is all you're seeing right now.

I will not continue to air this publicly. Its probably best for Dave that he doesn't either. The one thing that I know hurts the both of us equally is the loss of a friendship.
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