Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

To elaborate further on Ben's response, we went back and forth on the static CR for quite awhile.....what we settled on was like the half pregnant deal....LOL

What I told him was if we keep it at 12 to 1 we could get away with straight pump fuel so why invest the time and money in E85 if your not really taking advantage of it (to me that didnt make sense).

What we ended up with was a combo that could still run fine on pump gas (and still put up a number), knowing upfront that we would likely be soft on timing with the additional compression. However, this allowed the E85 set-up to add some value (with the higher static compression) and we always had pump gas and octane boost as a 3rd alternative.

All of this was carefully planned and honestly the results worked out exactly as I hoped they would. We didnt over do the compression so much where we couldn't get a solid number on straight pump fuel yet we added enough to help the E85 numbers look reasonably strong (and make a big enough difference that there was value in running it).

It worked out really well....also the Boostane test was impressive and to be honest we didnt spend alot of time with that knowing we were picking up the heavy bat and looking towards the sky with the E85 tune.

When the smoke cleared we had great results with all three fuels we tried which was sweet




-Tony

Spartan07

Another great job from Tony! Looks like I will be selling my PRC heads to get a new Heads/Cam package from you! Quick question, did you port match the MSD intake to the heads?

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Thanks....but I have to to also mention the best parts in the world wont look so good come dyno time with a so so rushed install. I did coach Ben on alot of the valvetrain stuff but he took to it like a fish to water....LOL

Im confident he did a more thorough job than most shops and as such netted all the gains the good parts he installed had to offer.

To answer your question regarding the intake, the majority of the porting is spent inside the runner....the outer flange that meets the head is thin already and has an O-ring groove there so there isn't much port matching you can do. The port exit kind of is what it is from MSD but thats one area where out of the box they kind of got it right as the oultet size and shape fits most heads pretty good and happens to fit my MMS 265 heads really well.

The real magic regarding the porting happens just inboard of the exit as you transition from the outlet flange into the runners....lots of plastic chips are flying at that point. That's where the majority of the work is performed opening up the runners and straightening the shape of the port as it transitions from the middle of the runner towards the exit. There is a solid increase in the cross section of the runner and a much more streamlined shape when Im finished comparing ported vs unported.



-Tony

double06

I could see the work that Tony did on my manifold and he has a picture on a thread here where there is a washer that is the exact width of the port. On the stock MSD it goes in maybe 1/2 inch and stops. With his ported intake the washer goes all the way in and out the other side. So this shows the work is really done inside the manifold mainly in the first few inches from the head.

Spartan07

Tony, so I would not have to send in my current Mamofied MSD to get matched to a set of your heads??

Bad_AX

Tony, with 12.4:1 compression, did you make any adjustments to the intake valve closing to control cylinder pressure?

Great build and great results.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Nope....no need

If you already have a Mamo ported MSD you can just purchase my heads and know that you will still have a very optimal combination regarding the heads and intake manifold




This wasn't extremely high static compress that really would require something very specific regarding cam timing (the same cam on a 111 LSA would have been an issue regarding potentially too much cylinder pressure for pump fuel). I guess what Im saying is I knew it wouldn't be an issue with the later intake closing point a 114 LSA cam offers. A slightly larger cam would have tolerated even more ignition lead on straight 93 but we would have been getting away from our goals of building a really good driver....something that had excellent street manners. Basically a conscious choice was made to sacrifice some of the peak numbers for better low speed tractability, improved (wicked) throttle response, and cleaner idle.....better low RPM tip in etc.....all of the above being something a cam with less duration has to offer. Of course the allure of 600 RWHP was always on the table but Ben was willing to miss that by a little bit if that meant a car he could better live with and enjoy every day. Like most of us he had a car in his past he went a little too aggressive with and didnt want to feel the same regret with this combination.



Regards,
Tony

redcycle13

That's a perfect description. Tony made me aware from the beginning that some peak power was going to be left on the table with our cam choice, and he suggested we would still have pretty good manners with a larger cam. Just before the cam went in ( I already had the cam in hand) we actually discussed increasing cam size to insure we made the 600 number on pump fuel. At the end of the day I'm happy with the initial cam choice, and it obviously made good power.

Tony would have a better idea if this statement would be true, but I believe a slightly smaller cam could hit 600 rear wheel with his package. I think the compression would need to be 12.1-12.2 so full timing could be realized on pump fuel. I can tell you my timing on 93 is conservative and could potentially be pushed further, but the tuner (Dynospeed's Forrest Luster) was adamant we stay safe on 93 considering we had E85 to tune with for max power. I spoke with him at length regarding the safety of this tune up, and he said without question the car could be beaten on with either fuel and no worry.

To my knowledge this is currently the smallest camshaft in a combo that has cleared 600 wheel horsepower on pump fuel.

Brandon619

Great results from a Mamo build.

Ghost Knight

Great build and results! I especially love how it holds power through redline. I suspect it may be due to the 2" headers and/or the heads.

I'm not sure about this part. Your cam is nearly identical to the BTR 3 (a hair less duration, but a bit more lift, similar LSA). Plenty have hit over 600 (I did 615whp, 560wtq SAE on 93, of course with a Mamo ported MSD and AI ported stock heads, stock TB, 1 7/8 headers, catted).

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

I appreciate you chiming in and taking the time to post

My thoughts on the cam comparison and the dyno reults

Ben's cam is actually a good bit smaller than a BTR 3.....I believe that cam has 18' of overlap where Ben's cam is 14'.....that's not an insignificant difference....four degrees less overlap is a big enough change to have better idle quality and better driving manners....in fact listen to Ben's idle clip....its smoother than a BTR 3 without question.

Also....as I mentioned in my original post, you have to know the lay of the land when it comes to dyno's. There are dynos that read high and dynos the read low....you can drive a little under an hour in my area and get a 30-40 delta rolling the car on different equipment (and its like this in every major city). Its why I took the time to mention that Ben's car set a record on this dyno....there were certainly a handful of C6Z's that rolled on the same equipment as Ben but the highest H/C C6Z they tested didnt even make 590 which we cleared by a comfortable margin (a blow out when we ran the better fuel).

To be honest for ***** and grins I'm going to encourage Ben to roll on a different local dyno whenever he can find the time. I bet its 620+ on pump gas and a bunch more on the corn. It would be cool to see the car on a different dyno....the shape of the curve etc. I know Ben is a busy guy running his own business but if he could find the time it would be an interesting comparison and I would want him to ask the operator of that facility the typical range there as well because once again the dyno is just a barometer and a tuning tool.

This hobby would be a better place (and easier place for the end user to navigate) if all dyno's and all flowbenches read the same but it's never going to happen....you have to learn how to navigate all the above and spend alot of time doing so to get the straight scoop on stuff. I wish all of you guys had the benefit of all the stuff I have learned and seen over the years....I feel bad for the private individuals having to do the best they can navigating the mine fields....LOL

Regards,
Tony

jayyyw

Amazing results. Were the heads as cast or was there some port work done to them?

Josh B.

Very impressive results! Well done, I enjoyed reading the details.

Buddy A

I'd venture to say Tony worked those heads over very extensively. Doubt he would sell them without working them over

Brandon619

Tony works over his as cast heads alittle bit. I went with his Sportman TF heads last year

jayyyw

Navy Blue 210

Redcycle13
Congrats on your build & outstanding results!

To those who asked re Cast.

ALL of the MMS LS HEADS are CNC'd except the Sportsmen 223
Cathedral which are as Cast, then hand finished to varying degrees,
Depending on customer's wants.
Some of the CNC Heads are also Hand finished AKA
MAMOFIED, for those that want the last 3% LOL!
I selected a set of MMS LS3's MAMOFIED along with a
MAMOFIED FAST 102 W/ Mid Length Runners that made 690 HP from
396" at WesTech's Engine Dyno with a medium sized LLSR and only
11.7:1 comp.

Tony's Cylinder Heads & Manifold Porting are the Best!

redcycle13

Not sure if I said so in your build thread, but your combo definitely helped to inspire this one. Thanks for pushing the envelope, and for sharing the E38 computer swap. That computer made a huge difference in idle and low speed quality.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

These are my MMS 265 LS7 heads....they only come one way which is fully CNC ported and they come hand finished in the bowls and chambers at no charge (its all included in the price). They are a very optimized set of heads the way I normally deliver them to my customers. The only real options are a larger fully hand finished exhaust port and hollow stem (larger diameter) exhaust valves. Also a titanium intake valve is an option but it's pricey and unnecessary for most guy's needs.

Ben made these numbers with my standard MMS 265 package which also includes the milling required to increase the static compression of the combination to each of my customer's requirements (most guys opting for 11.6 - 12 to 1 depending on their local octane available at the pump....some higher that are running E85 like we did for Ben's application).



Regards,
Tony

Da Z06

Great results and congrats!

Question for Tony:

How does the MMS differs from the CNC Trick Flow? Only asking about the port design.

Does the MMS gets "additional" or a "different" CNC program? I understand that you may, depending on the customer needs/request head blend/work the exhaust port. Outside of that, what are the differences?

Thank you Tony.