New Mamo heads, MSD intake, cam build
06-25-2017, 09:38 PM
#21
Advanced
Thread Starter
Alex....thanks very much for taking the time to post and share your results. I've been slammed the last week and this is the first I am even seeing this thread!
Regarding the numbers, assuming they are all off the SAME dyno they are very legit (and I don't know for a fact if that's the case....Alex can confirm or deny).
I say everything is legit if you look at the progression of the build starting with the baseline numbers he discusses which most would agree are very much inline.
Looks like he started at 498 STD corrected with the mods he had at the time (headers, tune, CAI, etc.)...those numbers certainly make sense and if anything are a touch low factoring in they are STD correction factor which reads approximately 4% higher than the SAE correction most use to post chassis dyno results.
Looks like he added my ported MSD after that which picked up almost 40 RWHP (I have seen that type of gain with my ported MSD alot more than once btw). That puts him at 540 STD correction (520 ish SAE....very much inline) and then he installs my MMS 265 heads, medium sized cam and my valvetrain gear and basically picked up another 100 and some small change landing at 644 STD.....which is closer to 620 SAE and that makes alot of sense to me based on all the other combo's I have built and spec'ed. Not to mention if all of this was on the same dyno its hard to argue the results! Larger headers would add a minimum of 10 RWHP
Alex....can you confirm that this was all the same dyno and also confirm the final SAE numbers....644 on the STD correction factor should be closer to 620 SAE, not 630....want everyone to have the correct information. Either way the numbers are extremely impressive for a modest cam and 1.75 headers even at 620 SAE.
Guys I have worked long and hard on my LS7 gear and Im a huge fan of this platform....in fact I work on a lot of different stuff....have some killer BBC parts....awesome 23' Gen 1 offerings, some killer inline Ford products (blasphemy I know!), but the LS7 is my personal favorite and I have devoted a large portion of the last three years dedicated to this platform (since leaving AFR in 2014)....working on my LS7 program is really where I have dedicated the bulk of my R&D time.
So as you can see Im very passionate about this product and the results you guys are seeing didnt happen by accident....alot of time has been dedicated to the development of the entire combination (not just the heads) that I am helping you guys with.....for you guys sitting on the fence reading I suggest you take advantage of this. I have driven a few of my customer's cars with my complete packages installed and they are nothing short of thrilling to drive....explosive everywhere....even the bigger cammed stuff just gets up and goes regardless of RPM....its not lazy at any RPM. The smaller more efficient port designs in my new heads promoting high air speed and high airflow (the winning combination) which is what really makes all this a reality.
More results are coming....I have another dozen of so packages in the works right now I am completing for forum members that Im sure a handful of them will post their final results as well.
Long live the LS7....simply the baddest production car SBC on the planet....nothing else comes close IMO with the exception of the new Hemi. Guys with my NA packages in C6Z's are walking past boosted C7Z's at the tracks....even modded C7's....its not even a contest.
Cheers,
Tony
PS....Here is a short video (poor quality but the audio track says it all) of me driving one of my customers cars that made 640+ RWHP with my MMS 265 complete LS7 package. It was a steering wheel mounted go pro (hence the turning landscape as I make a right turn on a road I probably shouldn't have went this fast on), and you need to excuse the vibrations etc from the camera mount....but focus on how this car just explodes in first and rips thru the gears. This is the stock tall gearing also but you would think otherwise by how fast we get into 4th. Also this car hooked like glue on the 17" ET Street radials even in first gear....was pinned to the seat as a I mashed it from a 3500 RPM roll....enjoy!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/njtmld8bod...ckage.mpg?dl=0
Regarding the numbers, assuming they are all off the SAME dyno they are very legit (and I don't know for a fact if that's the case....Alex can confirm or deny).
I say everything is legit if you look at the progression of the build starting with the baseline numbers he discusses which most would agree are very much inline.
Looks like he started at 498 STD corrected with the mods he had at the time (headers, tune, CAI, etc.)...those numbers certainly make sense and if anything are a touch low factoring in they are STD correction factor which reads approximately 4% higher than the SAE correction most use to post chassis dyno results.
Looks like he added my ported MSD after that which picked up almost 40 RWHP (I have seen that type of gain with my ported MSD alot more than once btw). That puts him at 540 STD correction (520 ish SAE....very much inline) and then he installs my MMS 265 heads, medium sized cam and my valvetrain gear and basically picked up another 100 and some small change landing at 644 STD.....which is closer to 620 SAE and that makes alot of sense to me based on all the other combo's I have built and spec'ed. Not to mention if all of this was on the same dyno its hard to argue the results! Larger headers would add a minimum of 10 RWHP
Alex....can you confirm that this was all the same dyno and also confirm the final SAE numbers....644 on the STD correction factor should be closer to 620 SAE, not 630....want everyone to have the correct information. Either way the numbers are extremely impressive for a modest cam and 1.75 headers even at 620 SAE.
Guys I have worked long and hard on my LS7 gear and Im a huge fan of this platform....in fact I work on a lot of different stuff....have some killer BBC parts....awesome 23' Gen 1 offerings, some killer inline Ford products (blasphemy I know!), but the LS7 is my personal favorite and I have devoted a large portion of the last three years dedicated to this platform (since leaving AFR in 2014)....working on my LS7 program is really where I have dedicated the bulk of my R&D time.
So as you can see Im very passionate about this product and the results you guys are seeing didnt happen by accident....alot of time has been dedicated to the development of the entire combination (not just the heads) that I am helping you guys with.....for you guys sitting on the fence reading I suggest you take advantage of this. I have driven a few of my customer's cars with my complete packages installed and they are nothing short of thrilling to drive....explosive everywhere....even the bigger cammed stuff just gets up and goes regardless of RPM....its not lazy at any RPM. The smaller more efficient port designs in my new heads promoting high air speed and high airflow (the winning combination) which is what really makes all this a reality.
More results are coming....I have another dozen of so packages in the works right now I am completing for forum members that Im sure a handful of them will post their final results as well.
Long live the LS7....simply the baddest production car SBC on the planet....nothing else comes close IMO with the exception of the new Hemi. Guys with my NA packages in C6Z's are walking past boosted C7Z's at the tracks....even modded C7's....its not even a contest.
Cheers,
Tony
PS....Here is a short video (poor quality but the audio track says it all) of me driving one of my customers cars that made 640+ RWHP with my MMS 265 complete LS7 package. It was a steering wheel mounted go pro (hence the turning landscape as I make a right turn on a road I probably shouldn't have went this fast on), and you need to excuse the vibrations etc from the camera mount....but focus on how this car just explodes in first and rips thru the gears. This is the stock tall gearing also but you would think otherwise by how fast we get into 4th. Also this car hooked like glue on the 17" ET Street radials even in first gear....was pinned to the seat as a I mashed it from a 3500 RPM roll....enjoy!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/njtmld8bod...ckage.mpg?dl=0
Yes, same dyno since the car was new back in 2007. In fact I've been using this dyno since the late 90's... very consistent and know the owner so no funny business.
Car runs very hard... will be hitting the dyno again this week to get a bit more aggressive with the tune and fine tune the part throttle bits.
I don't have the sae numbers... I'll stop by and copy the file and post up when I do.
Most important for everyone here is that the car picked up over 100 hp at peak and about 130hp around 7000 rpm. His combos make silly power and they do everything he says and more. Do your research, talk to people, ask questions, know what you want... or just call tony and let him spec you a package like this and you will be very happy.
Last edited by 07raw; 06-26-2017 at 06:12 PM.
06-26-2017, 01:10 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
To the OP, great results. If your not running the newer computer from DSX Tuning, you may want to consider it. I upgraded my 2006 to the newer style computer, and it made a huge difference in part throttle and idle manners. My car drives very well by way, with a cam seems pretty close to yours.
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07raw (06-26-2017)
06-30-2017, 12:15 PM
#23
They are hard to believe until you work with Tony, and buy a fully optimized package he put together. I recently dynoed my Mamo combo with a little smaller cam 236/248 and put down 637/539 SAE, and 647/550 STD. This combo blew away the previous best heads and cam LS7 by nearly 50hp. I have a thread here with before and after dyno graphs on the same dyno if you search for it.
To the OP, great results. If your not running the newer computer from DSX Tuning, you may want to consider it. I upgraded my 2006 to the newer style computer, and it made a huge difference in part throttle and idle manners. My car drives very well by way, with a cam seems pretty close to yours.
To the OP, great results. If your not running the newer computer from DSX Tuning, you may want to consider it. I upgraded my 2006 to the newer style computer, and it made a huge difference in part throttle and idle manners. My car drives very well by way, with a cam seems pretty close to yours.
I'm a little puzzled at these results on the dynos. I've put down 615/575 SAE on 93 using a mustang dyno with essentially the same setup and different cam. Where is all your torque going?
06-30-2017, 01:25 PM
#24
I talked with DSX (Dave Steck) and he mentioned the new computer would only really benefit my 2008 for a more radical FI build than anything else.
I'm a little puzzled at these results on the dynos. I've put down 615/575 SAE on 93 using a mustang dyno with essentially the same setup and different cam. Where is all your torque going?
I'm a little puzzled at these results on the dynos. I've put down 615/575 SAE on 93 using a mustang dyno with essentially the same setup and different cam. Where is all your torque going?
Bottom line....dyno's are tuning tools and results will vary immensely. I would suggest you roll your car on a few other dyno's just to see and witness that yourself. The engine and car in question made the most power a H/C stock 427 C6Z has ever made on this particular dyno.....if that was only 580 RWHP it's saying alot and what it would be saying (in my hypothetical situation) is that this particular dyno reads very stingy.
You have to know the "lay of the land" when you dyno a car unless its a dyno you own and already know whats good, what's average, and whats exceptional etc. Look around and you will see most if not every 427 C6Z isnt making 575 RWTQ which is what prompted your question in the first place. In fact that's the equivalent of 650 or so at the flywheel which would be over 1.52 Ft/lbs per cube....not happening on a pump gas 427. I build and dyno test alot of engines....1.4 - 1.45 torque per cube (not HP....torque) is a very stout number but attainable with a really good combo. 600 or low 600's at the flywheel is a very good torque number for a 427 cube engine which is low/mid 500's at the wheel.
Hoping I explained this well enough for most of you to understand....torque output is limited by cubes and compression....that makes up the bulk of that number. HP is how well the engine breathes and carries that torque and that's based on how good the heads, intake, and exhaust is....size of camshaft etc. It's much less fixed than torque output and is a better indicator of how well a particular engine breathes.
I could go on for pages about this stuff....pretty much dedicated the bulk of the last 40 years on this planet dedicated to it in one form or fashion
Cheers,
Tony
PS....A good example of what it really takes to make in the realm of 575 RWTQ would be Josh Bauer's 454 build that was well documented on this forum. That engine was 13.5 to 1 compression and had the benefit of 454 cubes as well (like I said....cubes and compression primarily dictate torque output). Im pretty sure Josh made like 585 RWTQ and I know he made 700 RWHP (notice the big spread....engine was breathing really well). Using my formula he would be more in the 1.45 torque per cube at the flywheel due to the high compression....that would be 658 ft/lbs on an engine dyno (454 X 1.45) and high 500's on a chassis dyno with the powertrain loss involved which is exactly where he landed.
Josh's build thread is here
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...hortblock.html
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 06-30-2017 at 10:50 PM.
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redcycle13 (07-02-2017)
06-30-2017, 01:40 PM
#25
I talked with DSX (Dave Steck) and he mentioned the new computer would only really benefit my 2008 for a more radical FI build than anything else.
I'm a little puzzled at these results on the dynos. I've put down 615/575 SAE on 93 using a mustang dyno with essentially the same setup and different cam. Where is all your torque going?
I'm a little puzzled at these results on the dynos. I've put down 615/575 SAE on 93 using a mustang dyno with essentially the same setup and different cam. Where is all your torque going?
Add that to the fact that you say it was recorded on a Mustang dyno instead of a DynoJet makes it even more over the top !!!
edit: never mind...I see Tony Mamo sees the same thing
07-01-2017, 11:41 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
I talked with DSX (Dave Steck) and he mentioned the new computer would only really benefit my 2008 for a more radical FI build than anything else.
I'm a little puzzled at these results on the dynos. I've put down 615/575 SAE on 93 using a mustang dyno with essentially the same setup and different cam. Where is all your torque going?
I'm a little puzzled at these results on the dynos. I've put down 615/575 SAE on 93 using a mustang dyno with essentially the same setup and different cam. Where is all your torque going?
07-02-2017, 02:47 AM
#28
Burning Brakes
I would consider my car to be a fairly radical N/A combo (I say this because of the sheer number of parts that are completely different from stock, and they require extensive tuning to maximize), but with a medium sized cam, and the correct combo of parts to make it a very good driver. I make more power than some boosted LS7's, and picked up 170 horsepower over stock baseline. Part of the reason the computer upgrade made such a difference on my car was the fact I'm using ID850 injectors. These injectors exceed the hard coded injector size limits on the stock 2006 computer, and forced me to scale the tune. Scaling takes away resolution in the airflow tables as well as many others, and that compromises the ability to really dial the tune in perfectly. Don't get me wrong, a scaled tune can work, and has been done for years with decent results. It mostly comes down to the computer upgrade being another part of the system used to obtain optimal results, but not 100% necessary. Sort of like a 102 throttle body in the fact you can make nearly the same power on a ported stocker, but it's not the absolute best for power production. You also get some additional tables with a newer style computer that help to tame the idle. I suspect the reason Dave said it really benefits boosted cars is because those combos are more likely to run injectors that are too big for the coded limits in the stock computer and therefore need to be scaled. It seems to me that more and more N/A LS7's are making big power and running E85 which necessitates injectors that are past the old computers limits. The computer upgrade will make almost no difference in the peak power numbers, but that's not where I see the real benefit anyway.
Last edited by redcycle13; 07-02-2017 at 02:57 AM.
07-02-2017, 03:36 AM
#29
Team Owner
In for the Dyno graph for 615/575 SAE on 93. 
07-02-2017, 08:17 AM
#30
Melting Slicks
I would consider my car to be a fairly radical N/A combo (I say this because of the sheer number of parts that are completely different from stock, and they require extensive tuning to maximize), but with a medium sized cam, and the correct combo of parts to make it a very good driver. I make more power than some boosted LS7's, and picked up 170 horsepower over stock baseline. Part of the reason the computer upgrade made such a difference on my car was the fact I'm using ID850 injectors. These injectors exceed the hard coded injector size limits on the stock 2006 computer, and forced me to scale the tune. Scaling takes away resolution in the airflow tables as well as many others, and that compromises the ability to really dial the tune in perfectly. Don't get me wrong, a scaled tune can work, and has been done for years with decent results. It mostly comes down to the computer upgrade being another part of the system used to obtain optimal results, but not 100% necessary. Sort of like a 102 throttle body in the fact you can make nearly the same power on a ported stocker, but it's not the absolute best for power production. You also get some additional tables with a newer style computer that help to tame the idle. I suspect the reason Dave said it really benefits boosted cars is because those combos are more likely to run injectors that are too big for the coded limits in the stock computer and therefore need to be scaled. It seems to me that more and more N/A LS7's are making big power and running E85 which necessitates injectors that are past the old computers limits. The computer upgrade will make almost no difference in the peak power numbers, but that's not where I see the real benefit anyway.
This is seems more and more like:
A) Make an unbelievable claim
B) Ask others why they're missing the torque you are "making"
C) Narrate your ECM upgrade a lot, but leave out dyno graphs or cam specs.
07-02-2017, 10:49 AM
#31
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '05
Things have changed..used to be having a time slip now its running around holding a dyno sheet like its a ribbon from the fair and claming times they never got. Easy 10s! 
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jayyyw (07-16-2017)
07-02-2017, 11:12 AM
#32
1/4 mile stuff depends just as much on driver skill and car setup as it does horsepower.....the 1/2 mile stuff is usually more about horsepower and aerodynamics
Last edited by FNBADAZ06; 07-02-2017 at 11:18 AM.
07-02-2017, 11:35 AM
#33
Race Director
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Wanna Go Fast is coming back to Dallas in Nov... I'll be attending with my recent build. Can't wait! I don't drag race my Z as I suck at it.... Roll racing is another story...
07-03-2017, 08:39 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
07-16-2017, 01:35 AM
#35
Any dyno graphs? I am thinking of doing his package as well. I talk to him today and he was very helpful. Can't wait!!!!