MikeOC

Build is almost done so it's time for a thread.

I only want to run E85 in this car and I primarily use it as a GT car and later I after taking some classes I would like to start tracking it. Mods were selected for efficiency, cruising MPG, daily use convenience, later track use, and torque, because torque is fun and I love it.

Parts already owned being re-used:

FIC 1000cc injectors
Fast LSXR (unported)
MSD Fuel pump voltage booster
Dsteck FlexFuel kit
E85 fuel filter
Walbro 267
ARH 1 7/8 Headers and X-pipe with high flo cats
Halltech Superbee MF103
Katech rear spoiler
Katech splitter and brace
Z07 wheels with PS2ZPs
Stock crank
Stock Rods
Stock clutch
LED side markers
Debadge front and rear
ARP header stud kit


New mods
My LS7 core --> ERL SuperDeck I 6 bolt
* ARP 1/2 studs, oring head gasket system, main girdle
AHP port and port match Fast102
Katech LS7 piston squirters
AHP machine block for piston squirters
Katech billet belt tensioner
Dewits Radiator w/oil lines
Ceramic coat headers
Katech HD slave cylinder w/bleeder
Katech ported LS9 pump
Katech powder coated valve covers
Katech undertray and brake duct kit
RHS 6 bolt LS7 heads CNCed
milled to 52cc
AHP port heads for velocity
AHP MS90 guides
Cermanic coat exhaust ports
AHP supplied Ti Int and Ex valves WPC + moly
Johnson slow leak short travel lifters with oiling
AHP select and supply pushrods
AHP select and supply springs
AHP select and supply plugs
JE rings
Crower SS shaft rockers w/ roller bearing upgrade
JE LS7 pistons 4.125
EPS Custom Cam for full time E85 226/242 120 + 5 .639"/.604" 8620 Core
(I requested low to no fumes, highway MPG, broad flat tq)
ATI 10% UD pulley
Avaid Sump and pan upgrades
Lingenfelter oil pan upgrade
Katech bearing upgrade for rods
ARP rod bolts
MMS PCV catch can
Tick master cylinder
intake heat shield
Hinson Motorsports Engine Mounts
WPC + Moly all applicable longblock parts
Hood vents
LG front and rear tow hooks
Oil pre priming system

Not sure what kind of HP it will make with such a mild cam but that really isn't my goal. I'm mostly concerned with efficient tq and and it should be high with the E85 and compression.

MikeOC

Hood cut for Camaro and Mustang vents

saved as much bracing as possible

not done yet (use any measurements at your own risk), still to do:

• reinforce center brace
• permanently attach vents

Click the link below each picture for the full size picture.


Shoutout to my buddy Justin, two brains and two sets of hands and eyes made this much easier and less nerve racking to attempt.


Started with a good taping, which saved me from putting a nick or two into my hood. Removal was also fast and easy because of the way I tapped. I started on the right side which you can see is worse than the left side. I bought the widest tape they had and overlapped each stripe onto the tape before it, going long to wrap around each edge. This allowed me to pull it up with minimal effort when I was done. Then I put a second layer on doing the same thing. I'm glad I had that much tape, my cutting wheel grazed the top side of the hood once, but it didn't go through the tape.

http://imgur.com/tkTA1OH.jpg


We made templates with some of that thick brown paper that comes on a roll. Put your vent on top of the paper with a weight so it doesn't move and trace the outline of the vent with a fine point sharpie, making sure to keep the pen as vertically level on all axis as possible so you get a consistent line. This gives you a template of the outside edge, but don't cut it out yet. Take a measurement of the lip on the underside of the vent, and make hash marks on the inside of your line at those distances. Then flip the vent over, and use the edge of the vent to trace your new inside line. You now have a smaller template inside your larger template which represents your actual cut. Cut your smaller template out and trace it out where you want it. I erred on the side of cutting inside with each measurement we took, and you can see the difference in the initial cut vs the final shape here. By the 3rd vent, we had it dialed in to cut it on the first pass.

http://imgur.com/rVjf7O2.jpg


I wanted to save as much bracing as possible, so we positioned the Camaro vent to straddle the center brace, one vent forward of the brace, the rest behind. This worked well and only required a little plastic to be removed from the vent to clear the brace, you'll see where with the vent in hand. Its on the underside of the vent, not visible once installed. It's bracing that runs longwise, and between the first and second vents from the nose side. Centerline of the back of the Camaro hole is approximately 10 5/8" from the windshield side of the hood, and the front side is approximately 14 3/8" from the nose of the hood, BUT this depends on how you made your template, so use those as a guide ONLY. We made my template so the the back of the vent has more overhang than the other 3 edges.

http://imgur.com/DGp5D1y.jpg


I wasn't careful enough, a put a couple small nicks into the brace, but it wasn't too bad. Also, when you cut near any bracing, you have to go very slow and shallow with the cutting wheel from above to separate the top fiberglass.

http://imgur.com/gsek37j.jpg



http://imgur.com/Z5Kx3UV.jpg


For the Mustang vents we made the template the same way as the Camaro vents, but the lip is a little smaller so I'm glad we did the Camaro vent first. Once we had our template, instead of doing the initial placement from the top side like we did with the Camaro vent, we came from the underside so we could be sure we were missing the bracing. Using a white paint pen, we traced the two long side cuts first, then once we were happy with the two side cuts, cut as much of the front edge as I could with the angle grinder cutting wheel. A smaller diameter cutting wheel will be better than a large one, you'll be able to make smaller angles. Much hand filing was done in the rounded corners of both vents. Once we were happy with the two side cuts and the front cut, we traced the cuts on the back edges from the topside using the template, going slow and shallow to separate the top fiberglass from the bracing. Click on the link to the large picture and you can see 4 small relief cuts we made on the front side of the Camaro cut to clear small bracing in the vent. Since I didn't end up using those to mount the vent I probably could have just cut them off but this will give be the option of mounting them with a bar going across as most people do if it proves to be necessary later but I doubt it.

http://imgur.com/BJKdtiU.jpg


http://imgur.com/e5aMTau.jpg


Tape removed and hood cleaned up a little, gives you a good look at the remaining bracing.

http://imgur.com/B0SeYr8.jpg


Vents not yet painted or mounted, but I wanted to get an idea how they would look. Since the placement of all 3 vents was functional, I really grew to enjoy the look vs where I would have put the vents for looks only.

http://imgur.com/w1cUFMC.jpg



http://imgur.com/cqWHP9B.jpg


http://imgur.com/ypOZW9d.jpg


The Mustang vents would require some additional bolt studs to be permanently attached to mount them the way the Camaro vents are traditionally mounted so I decided permanently mounting the vents with an adhesive would be the easiest way to mount all 3 vents. Justin recommended windshield glue because it should grip well, and be tolerant of some flexing even as it ages. So I cut the single mounting bolt off the Mustang vents and ended up removing the foam on the edge of the Camaro vent. You can also see how the lip of the Camaro vent is a bit more forgiving than the lip of the Mustang vents.

http://imgur.com/HyVLJ8X.jpg

5/15 update

Decided to cut the mesh and grates out of both sets of vents so they match better, then while tooking at the Mustang vents, decided to widen the gap in the vents to make it match the Camaro vent more closely. Didn't take any pictures of the process but I'm happy with the choice.

Got the vents painted and the clear chip protection wrap on the hood. Less than 100% pleased with the quality of both. Oh well, good enough I suppose. More reason to get a DRED hood later like I really wanted. Still need to attach them and possibly add some support to the center strut on the hood.


http://imgur.com/iUgRhdQ.jpg


http://imgur.com/YE7tbM1.jpg


http://imgur.com/WB1JpJx.jpg


got a request for measurements, not sure if I left any out in the original descriptions, these aren’t perfect cuts but it will get you really close

also put a piece of aluminum bar stock in the brace I saved and epoxied over it for extra strength

https://imgur.com/a/ZjKjDHb

MTPZ06

Sub'd

Jayfabs

This is going to be really nice!

jayyyw

in for results!

Whis9

sub'd

Josh B.

Very impressive parts list Mike. This should be a very torquey combo that is well-suited for the track.

I would offer that you might want to reconsider the investment of coating your existing 1-7/8 headers if you are looking for efficiency. You could sell your existing headers and buy ARH 2" then have those coated. This upgrade in size would compliment the nature of the mods you listed (efficient mods but not necessarily inexpensive). You would definitely gain hp/tq. The thought of coated 1-7/8" headers on an engine with piston squirters and coated exhaust ports just doesn't seem right.

MikeOC

Thanks for the input Josh. The headers have been coated for a while now, so that boat has mostly sailed.

I know the current info is that 2" will pick up power everywhere, but I've only ever seen chassis dynos starting at 3k. Most people don't care much about the 800-3000 range but it's quite important to me. So I'm not clear that 2" would be better in that range. I would hate to loose cruising efficiency or throttle response in that range. I am also stock cubes and have no plans to bore it out.

Also, for parts like Fast vs MSD or 1 7/8" vs 2", maybe there would be some gain but the cost of this build has run away so much that combined with my guess that there might be a slight tq nod to the parts I already have that I am fine saying "good enough." My main focus was getting the longblock exactly the way I wanted it so it doesn't have to be opened for quite some time.

Unreal

How often are you WOT at 800-3000?

MikeOC

Almost never of course, but am I wrong in *assuming* that having more than you need for that range lowers throttle response? Genuinely asking, always happy to learn.

But again its moot, I've already spent more than I had wanted to, my main focus was getting the long block the way I wanted it.

About year ago or maybe even a little longer when I had them coated, I didn't see a lot of 2" chat at the time so it wasn't even on my radar. Now that I've already had them coated I'll just use them.

Turbo2L

In for the results. Shameless plug for a Mamo MSD or just out of the box MSD versus anyone's ported FAST. Leaving some power under the curve on the table for sure.

Josh B.

My hats off to you for your goals. You mentioned highway mileage as a goal for your cam. I am getting about 10/17 mpg city/highway, if I milk it just right, on E85. Because of my use of E my personal goal for good highway MPG went away, which bummed me out. E just burns more, alot more, and I just live with it. I also have a big cam and more cubes, which take their toll over a smaller cam in a 427. You might hit 20 mpg or so, as I'm sure you expected.

Michael_D

Should be a real stump puller, and will be a downright blast to drive!

The Crower's are a bit overkill for the lift, but what the hell...... With the right springs, you'll be golden.

1.875" primary headers are just fine for your goals. And if you follow logic and theory, they will outperform 2" when considering your goals and wish to have great off idle to 3000 rpm performance. No way to quantify a comparison between the two without an engine dyno, and running it up from off idle to peak. Tony Mamo should do this seeing how he likes to recommend 2" headers........and he has an engine dyno set up with ECM and harness for this engine. I'll chip in a couple hundred dollar bills for the test......

Josh B.

1-7/8" headers do not outperform 2" headers on an LS7, particularly on ARH headers with the merge collector they use. There are numerous examples scattered across this forum as it stands. What does Tony Mamo, and calling his judgment into question, have to do with this thread?

MikeOC

Before this I was getting 8/16 on E85 with a different cam, more overlap and 12.5 SCR. I could just barely make it to Vegas if I topped of on E85 in Ontario on the way out. I took a couple full 5 gallon gas (ethanol?) cans with me just in case, which I did not like doing. So cruising MPG was a big must for me this time. With E85 being about 30% less energy dense, yes I am hoping to hit at least 20 highway. I am also hoping to get a little more from the compression bump, and maybe some from the friction loss of the WPC w/Moly. But I'll also have a little more aero now, so who knows! Here's hoping!

Yes, I probably didn't need the Crowers but the RHS 6 bolt heads were set up for shaft rockers and I would had to modify them for OEM rockers. I sold my old heads complete so it seemed silly to me to rebuy some OEM rockers, I figured I didn't mind since there'll be less side loading.

I ask Geoff when he was speccing the cam if we should put more lift in because I had the Crowers but he said based on my head flow and where the powerband would be landing based on my goals it wouldn't be much and wouldn't be worth it, so I took his recommendation.

And thank you Michael, you were one of the brains I picked over PM if you remember as I was trying to learn. Very much appreciated!

Sounded like Michael was only talking about the sub 3k performance of the 2" headers, and stating that the only way to know would be an engine dyno like Tony's, not questioning his claims about performance over 3k. At least that's the way I read it.

Michael_D

I sure wish I had your engine building experience Josh B. I feel so humbled to just see you question me. I am not worthy of your attention.

Your claim is bunk. I can build a dozen LS7's, and if I want, everyone will have a distinctly unique curve, each requiring it's own exhaust. Buy a copy of PipeMax and play around.... (Oh, I actually build headers from time to time).

I DID NOT QUESTION Mamo's JUDGMENT.

I was quite clear and only a nuthugger would infer anything other than what I wrote.

Tony recommends 2" primary headers for the LS7 platform, in this C6 chasis - frequently, AND... he has an engine dyno already set up for this engine.

I have my own engine dyno, and know very well what all is involved to set up an engine for a particular engine and car, with its own ECM/PCM......... I also know time is money, so I offered to pony up $200 to chip in for a real test. Off idle to redline, same engine. No other changes but the headers and re-cal fueling to maintain target AFR when in PE.

No bullshit, just a real test with quantifiable results from a respected SME.

So there you go. I am putting money up to see the results of an actual test....a test I'd do but it would cost me well over a grand to set up to perform - plus the cost of the engine and the headers. Money ahead for me, and I actually learn something with REAL info - not internet bullshit from internet keyboard engine builders.

Josh B.

To my knowledge Tony does not own an engine dyno but has relied upon Steve at Westech for his engine dyno. I appreciate your interpretation, my own is that I read it as far more passive aggressive, hence the use of the double ellipses and name dropping him out of nowhere.

SCR will help mileage a bit, probably not enough to notice though. Tuning will have an affect on mileage too, of course. Who is tuning your car?

Josh B.

You name dropped him out of nowhere, you obviously question his judgment with parts selection. It seems odd that you threw some discredit on his recommendations when none were made and when no one mentioned his name at all before you. Like you're a competitor with him or something? Just kinda out of nowhere to mention him.

MikeOC

I haven't talked with Kohle about that yet. I think we are about two weeks out from a tune, so I'm sure I'll chat with him about it at some point.


As to the 1 7/8" vs 2"
I wouldn't mind chipping in a couple bills for a test since this board has given me so much knowledge, but it seems like a very small subset that cares about the low end more than the high end. I'm not sure there will be many more interested.

Hopefully that whole discussion doesn't blow up, I don't like to see people fighting

Josh B.

Awesome man. Cali is a lucky place to have some great tuners. You're going to need some sticky tires, and probably a new clutch