Racingswh

I am not sure I am understanding, which doesn't surprise me.

If you could elaborate on what you mean by not using the ARE system that would be great.

I like the curve too. I was happy with the way it presents and is broad. I am most happy that it carries and doesn't fall off.

I have a new ZR1 MH3 box going in with the 1.21 3rd gear so I will be able to carry 3rd to 134 mph at 7k rpm eliminating so many up to 4th back down to 3rd shifts that just waste time.

It will also go 164 in 4th, which they all do, but it will pull harder than it used to up to there with less RPM spread from 3rd to 4th and that's faster than I go at any road course I am on unless we make the tow down to Daytona.

sccaGT1racer

Its a little late now but you could have ditched the factory style pump and used a dry sump pump with 3 -5 scavenge stages to gain scavenge/crankcase vacuum for better ring seal. Anyways congrats on the new power.

Racingswh

We reused my stock LS7 cam. That's what I am telling everyone at the track. All I did was headers and some fancy mufflers.

I don't have the exact specs. Essentially I tried to be as explicit as I could explaining when the engine needed to make power and why. I keep looking at the curve and corner speeds in gear at the tracks I go to and honestly he nailed it. The fact that it eliminates the upshift to 4th so many places is going to be HUGE!!

Under the bridge at Summit for instance. Always 120 and change there requiring a shift. Not anymore. Full concentration on braking, roll more speed in AND it will pull harder off in 3rd gear and carry farther onto the main straight. Seriously, with my 93 pump fuel and livable compression requirements I am not sure I could ask for more than this.

Should be a lot of fun this season. I set the bar a little high at a couple places last season so I am going to have to really drive this thing. I am excited to try and meet that challenge.

Lot's to do yet before the car is ready for the track.

Mordeth

Haha...yep stock cam, headers and some fancy mufflers. And a tune from one of those fancy chips you get from the interwebs. That works for me!

I agree and think this build is spot on. Done right, by one of the best in the business. There are a few spots at Watkins that I shift to 4th and I wish I didn't have to. I end up over-driving the car. So sometimes I just stay in third to focus on braking and turn-in but I know I am losing time.

Not suggesting you need it, but now - driver mod. This engine was built to run.

Racingswh

Yes you're absolutely right and great question. I thought that's what you might have meant but wanted to clarify. We'll see if there are any issues with this configuration. I have experience with this exact setup in two different cars with good results. Simply going with what I know works already. If it proves to be inadequate fortunately I am able to make the change.

When Tony broke the engine in yesterday the oil pressure was very strong and everything seemed to be functioning as expected. We touched on the fact that there was no positive crankcase pressure to speak of at high RPM which is good but no vacuum either that would have the benefit you mention.

I will be monitoring temps and pressures closely during it's real world application.

Racingswh

Oh believe me I need it way more than you know. I have some lofty lap time goals. Going to get as much seat time in it as I can.

What you mention is exactly what I am talking about, exactly!!! It's those not quite enough gear to reach the next braking zone moments.

Tony is confident I can leave it in gear to 7300 and be safe which is, yep, 140 mph in 3rd gear. I won't do it often, but will do it if ultimate lap time is the goal in TT's or important overtaking moments.

One of my best track friends bought the Loshak TA2 Camaro. We are probably going to have some good battles this season and if nothing else an incredible amount of fun!!

FNBADAZ06

Love it !!!!
Look at that power band

Racingswh

Thanks! I can't stop looking at it! I am supposed to be getting some work done.

I am on Motorsportreg.com right now seeing where I am going to take it first!!!

Brandon619

Loving it! Can't wait to see some video of this motor in your car.

Racingswh

Motor will be on it's way shortly and install is slated for the middle of January. Waiting on the ARH 2" headers and off road mid pipes. Ordering the Halltech CAI.

I will put up video of the Dynojet pulls to show what it makes at the tire using the SAE 5 smoothing correction.

After that I will put up some video of the thing on the track and how well it plays with other's. This should be the fastest road course car I have ever driven. That's what I am most looking forward to.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Cam specs were kept conservative due to the application (not building a drag race engine after all).

In fact we were looking for an early-ish torque peak (with a fairly flat curve both before the peak and after) but yet something that wouldn't fall on its face at the top as well and that's what presented the biggest challenge but I relied on the really efficient heads to handle the bulk of that lifting and they didn't disappoint carrying the power curve alot better than I thought with the duration and intake closing point of the cam I selected. I was thinking this combo would peak around 6500-6600 and be rolling over pretty good at 7K but we are still within single digits of peak power at 7K and this engine will pull willingly to 7300 with no problem.

So the final specs I settled on after much thought (and after modifying them slightly 3-4 times in my head....LOL)

240 / 252 @ .050
113 + 3

The combination really delivered exactly what we were after

Definitely pleased with the results and dealing with Steve (over the course of time neither of us expected....LOL), was always a pleasure!

I'm looking forward to the chassis dyno results but more importantly how it improves Steve's time slips at the track!

This engine has a reeaally wide usable power curve and it will work perfectly with the type of racing Steve does



Cheers
Tony

PS....The most important data is the data that comes from the chassis dyno....it may look a bit different than the engine dyno based on the CAI, header and exhaust design but assuming it looks similar I encouraged Steve to spin it a little higher on the rollers so we get a clearer picture of an optimal shift point and what it's really doing further past peak which can allow Steve to stay in the same gear longer versus having to shift in some portions of the track.

no0one718

I love builds like this, very well thought out, and no corners cut... I have a couple questions, sorry if they've been gone over already.

How much lift on the camshaft?

Is that a cable driven throttle body?

I'd love to see some pics and info on the chassis once you get the engine in there..

Racingswh

It wasn't really an easy process picking a builder and I did a lot of searching and asked a bunch of questions. I have been in this sport a long time and everyone has their opinions on who or what is the best. Sometimes it's really hard for the layperson to figure out what really is the best for them.

One of the parts I liked about Tony was his transparency and willingness to provide information. Some of the builders I contacted weren't able to give me the time and or answers I needed to feel comfortable in terms I could understand. When I asked what I know were stupid questions Tony didn't falter or take exception because I was partly clueless. He took that as an opportunity to be educational. I am not sure he knows how much that meant. After my search for a builder I could tell that Tony was a good fit for me.

I am not a big dyno numbers guy. I wanted it to make enough power for my application, not NA record breaking power. I like my car to be fast and put down similar lap times compared to other fast cars I come across at track events. I explained to Tony when and for how long the engine needed to make power. I explained I didn't want it to be an E85 or race fuel build. I wanted to build for a decent flat power band on pump gas and have it be reliable. Obviously the reliability part has yet to be seen but his serious attention to detail goes along way to insuring this IMO.

As we can see initial indications are that for my application this is going to work very well. I am even surprised at how well it carries up top on the engine dyno. He listened well to my requests and it shows.

I recommend if you have questions about any part of an LS7 build you contact Tony and he will be more than happy to help you. His response times are great as long as you remember, if you're in the Eastern US like me, that he's on the West Coast when you're sending him EST morning emails.

This one isn't even in the car yet and I have already started to lay out a budget for the next build we will do together. May even follow my own advice and find another chassis that's already completed for the engine to go in.

Brandon619

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

The lift of the cam is .650 or so factoring in the true ratio of the 1.8 YT Ultralite rockers that I used (they are a little stouter than advertised on the ratio if you take the time to check real world net lift).

I purposely used a lobe profile that was more geared towards endurance (slower off the seat and slower touching down on the seat). It makes a little less power than a faster ramp design but once again this is not a max effort build aimed at drag racing (short cycle events)....the valve springs will live alot longer with the slower ramp rates of the cam I selected and that's very important in these types of applications.

Regarding the TB, the one I used on the dyno is a cable driven 102 (just part of my "dyno set-up"), but the exact same power would be had with an ETC style unit, in fact I will be bolting one of those on the front of the engine when I crate it and ship it off as that is the style needed for Steve's C6Z install.



-Tony

Mordeth

I am hoping to race against Steve in 2018 in NY and NJ, at Watkins and NJMP, and maybe a few other tracks if I can chase him down. Looks like I really have my work cut out for me considering his build and the fact that he is a fantastic, very technical driver.

Steve: I am spending the next few months reviewing video and telemetry (thanks again for sending those vids to me). I will also be on my simulator! (and finding more ways to spend $$ on my car)

Racingswh

Wish we had a simulator now. Years ago when I went to the Laguna Seca the first time I had been "practicing" on a simulator. It translated perfectly. I was really fast!! I only destroyed 1 car during that event. As I was sliding along backwards into the wall I remember watching the right side corners fly off the car and go away from me the opposite direction of travel. It was a great event!!

This season should be a great one!! Really looking forward to it!!

You're welcome for the videos. They always help me immensely!! I do a lot of visualization after watching the videos. Ross Bentley kinda stuff. I try and "feel" what the car is like in my mind. It really works for me and helps me anticipate, NOT REACT, to what the car is going to do. That's huge!!! Circuit driving and being fast has nothing to do with reaction time and reflexes. It has to do with repetitive planning. That's why visualization is so powerful.

Reaction time and reflexes comes into play when bad stuff starts to happen. Lot's of times that's just luck how it turns out.

Mordeth

Haha. And agreed on all that you said. Visualization is so important. I call it mental imagery, which when combined with awareness will help you progress. Think of this equation:

MI + A = G.

Mental Image + Awareness of how close you actually are = Goal. Having a strong mental image via visualization and then awareness is a superb learning tool. I literally sit in a chair and imagine myself going around the track *in real time*, seeking the "perfect lap". This is what builds anticipatory behavior. Additionally, you should try to involve as many of your senses as possible when using mental imagery.

My simulator is not a professional version. It is just a high end computer, a really nice racing seat, wheel, shifter, pedals etc. Then I connect it all to an HTC Vive Virtual Reality headset, load up Project Cars 2 or Forza 7 or Assetto and off I go! It is really good for learning new tracks, trying different lines and staying sharp. It's also good for practicing in adverse conditions like rain, without the actual risk of balling up your car. The physics have gotten much better in the last year or two, and while it certainly isn't like actually driving on a real track, it definitely simulates a reasonably accurate version of it and the car behaves *for the most part* as you would expect it to. Slip angles, braking zones, steering inputs, track camber, weight shift, smoothness, pedal release, steering wheel feedback etc are all accounted for. Even very minor adjustments produce a measurable result.

I can also dial in different suspension, aero and tire settings to see how they impact performance. It is also good for practicing W2W as it does a good job of the "feeling" of cars all around you in a racing environment/format. I have the settings very severe (any damage is immediate and performance impacting, tires wear and heat up, fuel has to be managed, full penalties are on, my view is the view of looking out of a helmet etc etc).

Plus I can push myself much harder without the risk, so I can truly see what my driving skills and the car are capable of. In VR it really feels like you are there. If you turn your head you can see outside the windows of the car, and everything is in 3D and extremely immersive. My hands in the game do what my hands on the wheel in the real world do. I can sometimes even get the sense of the car moving.

It still isn't the real thing (obviously), but I need to do something other than tear my car apart and put it back together during this antarctic freeze up here in the NorthEast!

HC Mechanic

Excellent build

Spoke with Tony about this last week, going to be doing something very similar with my 404. Hoping to make similar power, obviously less torque. Can’t wait to see you get out on the track with that beast.

Btw - Who’s doing your transmission, and what exactly are you swapping? What did you change about 3rd gear? I’m also looking to replacing my C6 Z51 trans, or at least the ratios in the near future. I know the ZR1 trans was optimized for road course work, and that’s what I’m after; like yourself.

Racingswh

I purchased a brand new still in the box MH3 close ratio ZR1 transmission from Joe Aquilante at Phoenix Performance. I am using an MGW shifter.

Often thought to be too tall for a lot of applications, for an engine that makes good power over a broad RPM range in a road course environment it's perfect. Being able to leave it in third for just a little while longer while accelerating harder than it would in 4th gear is a big advantage at so many tracks.

Slow corners are 50 mph corners and for those 2nd gear will be used. (The carousel at Summit Point main track comes to mind)

When you start talking about higher speed corners 80 mph plus at 4500 rpm in 3rd gear you're coming up on the engines sweet spot and run the thing all the way out to 7300 rpm which is 140.65 mph with a 26.8" tall Hoosier 345/35/18.

I literally have analyzed every corner of every track I go to with speed in gear and this was the way to go. I have experience with the 3.55's in my ACR-E with similar gearbox ratios (1.19 3rd, 1.0 4th, .77 5th) and only a 6400 RPM red line. I am in 5th sooner than I want to be regularly and the car falls on its face.

This Mamo Motorsports engine mated to these ratios is going to be sweet. I should see higher speeds than I ever have before at every track I go to this season.

1st 2.29
2nd 1.61
3rd 1.21
4th 1.0
5th .818
6th .675

3.42 final drive

If you choose to work with Tony you won't be disappointed. His attention to detail is extremely impressive. Your engine will be done correctly and it will make great power.