[Z06] Starting issue
#1
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St. Jude Donor '07
Starting issue
Starter has been getting weak for quite a while now. At this point it just clicks like a battery that is too weak to start.
first, I knew the battery was marginal, so I replaced that.
Second, pulled the starter and opened it up, there was damage to the rotor, so I replaced the starter. Still the problem is the same. I have also swapped the crank relay with the AC relay.
Third, I bought a pigtail for the signal wire and when I connect it to 12v, starter spins fine.
So I know it's a signal problem.
Does anyone have recommendations at this point?
My plan next is to go to my friends shop and track the wire back with alldata, unless someone here can save me some time.
Could I have any of these problems ? Other relays? Ignition switch? Computer? Some other control module?
Thanks in advance.
first, I knew the battery was marginal, so I replaced that.
Second, pulled the starter and opened it up, there was damage to the rotor, so I replaced the starter. Still the problem is the same. I have also swapped the crank relay with the AC relay.
Third, I bought a pigtail for the signal wire and when I connect it to 12v, starter spins fine.
So I know it's a signal problem.
Does anyone have recommendations at this point?
My plan next is to go to my friends shop and track the wire back with alldata, unless someone here can save me some time.
Could I have any of these problems ? Other relays? Ignition switch? Computer? Some other control module?
Thanks in advance.
#2
Safety Car
What about the on off switch on the dash?
#4
Safety Car
You might want to start some research on how they fail. Sound like the most reasonable suspect of power is not making it to the starter and all the wires are in good shape.
They do fail.
Do not throw parts at it
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Landru (03-17-2017)
#8
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St. Jude Donor '07
after looking at the diagrams, I think I am going to change out the crank relay that is in the BCM before I start replacing wires.
Before I swapped the relays in the under hood fuse box and hadn't done anything with the one on the BCM
Before I swapped the relays in the under hood fuse box and hadn't done anything with the one on the BCM
#9
After 4 months it started again. It won't start sometime after not being driven for a while. .... All it will do is show a check engine light.
I can go thru a sequence of shutting the engine down and waiting until all electronics in the car has shut down. ....... Then it might
start on the 1st or 2nd time I repeat that process.
So in my case in my 2010 Z it might be a bad relay.
Any suggestions on which relay to replace ?
Thanks
Willie
#10
Drifting
If you suspect it's the relay, my suggestion is to simply disconnect it and hook it back up several times before you buy a replacement. It may be just oxidation that has gotten worse over the months/years.
#11
What about dirty or loose engine grounds?
Last edited by ratomicZ06; 03-19-2017 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Didnt read completely before posting, sorry
#12
First thing to do is prove WHERE the fault exists.
Take a look at the attached foto - the relay with starter written on it is the one applying full battery volts to operate the starter solenoid which applies battery to the starter.
ENSURE car is out of gear.
Remove this relay, carefully pop off the plastic cover, and re plug-in the bare relay with cover removed. Then manually press the relay armature with finger. The starter should crank but engine will not start. If it doesn't crank at full speed then fault is something between the relay contacts and starter or faulty starter or earthing - then with voltmeter prove where fault is. If it cranks perfectly then fault is further back towards start button etc. Just follow the circuitry back if necessary - but usually the problem is within the starter area itself.
My relay is modified with a manual over ride button so I can crank engine without removing relay cover etc but the operational principle is exactly the same.
And if the problem is relay contacts DO NOT use emery paper on contacts as it severely damages contacts causing future problems.
Take a look at the attached foto - the relay with starter written on it is the one applying full battery volts to operate the starter solenoid which applies battery to the starter.
ENSURE car is out of gear.
Remove this relay, carefully pop off the plastic cover, and re plug-in the bare relay with cover removed. Then manually press the relay armature with finger. The starter should crank but engine will not start. If it doesn't crank at full speed then fault is something between the relay contacts and starter or faulty starter or earthing - then with voltmeter prove where fault is. If it cranks perfectly then fault is further back towards start button etc. Just follow the circuitry back if necessary - but usually the problem is within the starter area itself.
My relay is modified with a manual over ride button so I can crank engine without removing relay cover etc but the operational principle is exactly the same.
And if the problem is relay contacts DO NOT use emery paper on contacts as it severely damages contacts causing future problems.
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St. Jude Donor '07
First thing to do is prove WHERE the fault exists.
Take a look at the attached foto - the relay with starter written on it is the one applying full battery volts to operate the starter solenoid which applies battery to the starter.
ENSURE car is out of gear.
Remove this relay, carefully pop off the plastic cover, and re plug-in the bare relay with cover removed. Then manually press the relay armature with finger. The starter should crank but engine will not start. If it doesn't crank at full speed then fault is something between the relay contacts and starter or faulty starter or earthing - then with voltmeter prove where fault is. If it cranks perfectly then fault is further back towards start button etc. Just follow the circuitry back if necessary - but usually the problem is within the starter area itself.
My relay is modified with a manual over ride button so I can crank engine without removing relay cover etc but the operational principle is exactly the same.
And if the problem is relay contacts DO NOT use emery paper on contacts as it severely damages contacts causing future problems.
Take a look at the attached foto - the relay with starter written on it is the one applying full battery volts to operate the starter solenoid which applies battery to the starter.
ENSURE car is out of gear.
Remove this relay, carefully pop off the plastic cover, and re plug-in the bare relay with cover removed. Then manually press the relay armature with finger. The starter should crank but engine will not start. If it doesn't crank at full speed then fault is something between the relay contacts and starter or faulty starter or earthing - then with voltmeter prove where fault is. If it cranks perfectly then fault is further back towards start button etc. Just follow the circuitry back if necessary - but usually the problem is within the starter area itself.
My relay is modified with a manual over ride button so I can crank engine without removing relay cover etc but the operational principle is exactly the same.
And if the problem is relay contacts DO NOT use emery paper on contacts as it severely damages contacts causing future problems.
Thanks, all good info.
#15
Ok, doesnt sound like a grounding issue, but, if i were to guess, id say that a slow crank would fall victim from the larger gauge wire paths, battery to starter. How does the large red wire/terminal look at starter solenoid? Lotta heat down there.
#17
Measure the voltage on the starter solenoid (schematic 2 terminal 1) which I sent. It must be up around 12 volts coming from the relay. And yes access is a PIA.
If you look at the circuit, battery from the start relay pulls in the solenoid on the left hand coil operating winding and the hold winding on the right hand side should hold the solenoid operated because the solenoid contacts bridge out the left hand operating coil when the solenoid operates. This is done to reduce current drain from the solenoid and hence heat generation.
If the solenoid is clicking then the only way that can happen is if the volts on terminal 1 drop below hold voltage (possibly around 8-9 volts on terminal 1) or alternatively the hold coil is faulty (maybe hold wire not soldered on terminal etc).
In other words if the volts on terminal 1 is holding up around 12 volts then you almost certainly have a solenoid fault.
#19
Safety Car
That eliminates most of what other are recommending here.
So I know it's a signal problem.
Then check your clutch switch with an ohms meter.
If that is OK then your ign switch is generally the only other fail point.
SO what you should be doing is taking the 12v signal lead of the starter and check it with a volt meter and I bet it just goes nuts with readings from zero to 12v quickly.
Either way these all need to be checked
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St. Jude Donor '07
That actually sounds like the hold winding in the solenoid is faulty assuming the battery voltage is adequate.
Measure the voltage on the starter solenoid (schematic 2 terminal 1) which I sent. It must be up around 12 volts coming from the relay. And yes access is a PIA.
If you look at the circuit, battery from the start relay pulls in the solenoid on the left hand coil operating winding and the hold winding on the right hand side should hold the solenoid operated because the solenoid contacts bridge out the left hand operating coil when the solenoid operates. This is done to reduce current drain from the solenoid and hence heat generation.
If the solenoid is clicking then the only way that can happen is if the volts on terminal 1 drop below hold voltage (possibly around 8-9 volts on terminal 1) or alternatively the hold coil is faulty (maybe hold wire not soldered on terminal etc).
In other words if the volts on terminal 1 is holding up around 12 volts then you almost certainly have a solenoid fault.
Measure the voltage on the starter solenoid (schematic 2 terminal 1) which I sent. It must be up around 12 volts coming from the relay. And yes access is a PIA.
If you look at the circuit, battery from the start relay pulls in the solenoid on the left hand coil operating winding and the hold winding on the right hand side should hold the solenoid operated because the solenoid contacts bridge out the left hand operating coil when the solenoid operates. This is done to reduce current drain from the solenoid and hence heat generation.
If the solenoid is clicking then the only way that can happen is if the volts on terminal 1 drop below hold voltage (possibly around 8-9 volts on terminal 1) or alternatively the hold coil is faulty (maybe hold wire not soldered on terminal etc).
In other words if the volts on terminal 1 is holding up around 12 volts then you almost certainly have a solenoid fault.
Everything else the BCM controls seams fine.