[Z06] WCCH bronze guides are shot
04-09-2018, 04:26 PM
#161
Team Owner
And I will accept your skewed perspective
DH
04-10-2018, 02:56 PM
#162
04-11-2018, 03:54 PM
#164
04-11-2018, 03:57 PM
#165
Those are people who do NOT have a clue what the issues are and how they can be easily be fixed by the shops who truly understand the problem.
04-11-2018, 04:27 PM
#166
One builder I know put l92 heads on an ls7 and put it in a blazer that ran a 10.001.
I don't know what to think anymore.
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FSTFRC (04-12-2018)
04-11-2018, 04:34 PM
#168
04-11-2018, 04:42 PM
#169
I explained it, in Post #28. You did NOT specify and pay for the extra cost molybdenum coating be placed on intake valves
04-11-2018, 05:19 PM
#170
04-11-2018, 05:39 PM
#171
WCCH doesn't even list coating on their price page, but they do tumble polish the valves, which is among the reasons for failure - a too rough finish on the intake valves because they had a PVD coating, and PVD typically requires a fairly rough finish.
However, I think it was concluded previously that the cam you installed was above the generally accepted .630 lift before side loading on the valve becomes excessive, and roller tipped rockers are needed.
However, I think it was concluded previously that the cam you installed was above the generally accepted .630 lift before side loading on the valve becomes excessive, and roller tipped rockers are needed.
04-11-2018, 06:03 PM
#172
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Rochester NY
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2018 C6 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '10, '17
The reason Richard from WCCH uses bronze guides is because he could not source guides directly from GM. This all started in 2009 and 2010 when the first confirmed failures were found. GM would only sell an entire head, so there was no way for WCCH to get just the guides. He was forced to go to bronze, as at the time this was the only alternative he could find in the aftermarket. Additionally, he preferred not to. So this is why he uses bronze, not because it is a superior in any possible way. He has gone on record stating this.
04-12-2018, 12:44 AM
#173
Burning Brakes
WCCH doesn't even list coating on their price page, but they do tumble polish the valves, which is among the reasons for failure - a too rough finish on the intake valves because they had a PVD coating, and PVD typically requires a fairly rough finish.
However, I think it was concluded previously that the cam you installed was above the generally accepted .630 lift before side loading on the valve becomes excessive, and roller tipped rockers are needed.
However, I think it was concluded previously that the cam you installed was above the generally accepted .630 lift before side loading on the valve becomes excessive, and roller tipped rockers are needed.
They don't coated the stock valves. They do however have an aftermarket moly coated titanium valve made by del West and they run $1100-1200 for a set. I just bought new stock valves that are much cheaper and I had del West polish them. Hopefully they hold up with my moldstar guides.
04-12-2018, 07:12 AM
#174
Premium Supporting Vendor
What intake valves did you use?
04-12-2018, 07:13 AM
#175
Premium Supporting Vendor
I have been watching this whole thing and have not done anything yet but I am surprised Katech is still using bronze guides. When I do mine, i think I’m going for the Moldstar guides from AHP, and hopefully that really corrects the issue. If not, something is seriously wrong. But I have been waiting to see wear results from fixed heads start to come in.
04-12-2018, 07:58 AM
#177
Premium Supporting Vendor
This is why the intake guides wore out again. Bronze is slipperier than a PM guide but it's also softer. It needs a nice smooth surface on the valve stem to work with it or it's like sandpaper on a soft surface. We looked at the surface finish of the OEM intake valves and didn't like how rough it was. We were concerned with it wearing out bronze. We tried tumble polishing them which improved the finish, but still didn't meet our standards. That's why we came up with the Katech Ti/Mo intake valve. It's chrome nitride coated on the whole valve like the OEM one, but then the stem is coated with molybdenum. This is the same combination of materials we used on the C5-R and LS7.R racing engines that ran the 24 Hours of Le Mans. This is why we are very strict on the use of Ti/Mo intake valves when using bronze guides.
04-12-2018, 08:45 AM
#178
This is why the intake guides wore out again. Bronze is slipperier than a PM guide but it's also softer. It needs a nice smooth surface on the valve stem to work with it or it's like sandpaper on a soft surface. We looked at the surface finish of the OEM intake valves and didn't like how rough it was. We were concerned with it wearing out bronze. We tried tumble polishing them which improved the finish, but still didn't meet our standards. That's why we came up with the Katech Ti/Mo intake valve. It's chrome nitride coated on the whole valve like the OEM one, but then the stem is coated with molybdenum. This is the same combination of materials we used on the C5-R and LS7.R racing engines that ran the 24 Hours of Le Mans. This is why we are very strict on the use of Ti/Mo intake valves when using bronze guides.
04-12-2018, 10:43 AM
#179
Premium Supporting Vendor
The exhaust valves are stainless steel and therefore do not require the CrN coating. They can be used in the bronze guides. We also have a Ti/Mo exhaust valve though which would be the best choice and what we use in our track-focused packages.
04-12-2018, 10:57 AM
#180
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2002
Location: North shore,Ma./Naples Florida
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Jason,
Do you rebuild heads there or still just do complete packages? Last time we spoke it was just complete packages that you did. If you won’t do just the heads, how can one get the heads done exactly as you spec them above? Does WCCH have a package that is exactly as you are doing them with all your valves new? Wish I was closer instead of in Florida and I would just drop the car off. Tired of worrying about this thing.
Do you rebuild heads there or still just do complete packages? Last time we spoke it was just complete packages that you did. If you won’t do just the heads, how can one get the heads done exactly as you spec them above? Does WCCH have a package that is exactly as you are doing them with all your valves new? Wish I was closer instead of in Florida and I would just drop the car off. Tired of worrying about this thing.
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SSMOKE (04-13-2018)
