[Z06] H beam vs I beam
04-20-2018, 04:20 PM
#21
Supporting Vendor
oh oh trust me lol he prob knows more than 99% on this forum but I like to hear from others as well and he got back to me he says there hasn’t been enough testing to know these rods will
last 600-700whp for ever and since I might go with no’s or boost he doesn’t like the stock rods for it they were meant for 505 crank hp. I also talked to Cunningham Motorsports in so cal and they said not to use any boost or nos on stock rods if you want them to last for ever they just were not built for it. They said they can take 800whp NA but not boosted or sprayed the way the torque comes
in just beats them down from what I was told
i think it’s cause he knows I’m also putting every penny into this and doesn’t want the same thing happening again so
hes giving me some free I beams to help me with my build this guy is so nice that he isn’t charging me for my new btr4 cam and head work. But me as I am I’m gonna pay him all back for it. Just how I am wish there were more people like my engine builder.
In my prior car (the red one that was stolen back in 2015) I ended up blowing my motor a few times because of cracked pistons (both stock and aftermarket) as well as a dropped valve and the builder I was using at the time couldn't get over how well the rods held up as I was able to reuse them in (I think) three separate builds.
Who is this builder you're referring to by the way?
04-20-2018, 04:22 PM
#22
Supporting Vendor
I sold my LS7 bare block and had HPR rebuild a Darton sleeved block with CP pistons and i reused my Ti rods and crank. I generally use my Z06 n/a the majority of the time but I wanted a build that would allow me to spray up to a 250 shot in 1/2 and 1/4 mile events 5 to 10 times a year.
You really need to figure out your goals first. I would not reuse the rods in a boosted application.
If if I ever have a failure with this motor I will go back to HPR and buy their 468 shortblock.
You really need to figure out your goals first. I would not reuse the rods in a boosted application.
If if I ever have a failure with this motor I will go back to HPR and buy their 468 shortblock.
04-20-2018, 04:46 PM
#23
04-20-2018, 04:50 PM
#24
I sold my LS7 bare block and had HPR rebuild a Darton sleeved block with CP pistons and i reused my Ti rods and crank. I generally use my Z06 n/a the majority of the time but I wanted a build that would allow me to spray up to a 250 shot in 1/2 and 1/4 mile events 5 to 10 times a year.
You really need to figure out your goals first. I would not reuse the rods in a boosted application.
If if I ever have a failure with this motor I will go back to HPR and buy their 468 shortblock.
You really need to figure out your goals first. I would not reuse the rods in a boosted application.
If if I ever have a failure with this motor I will go back to HPR and buy their 468 shortblock.
be staying NA. And he’s telling me he’s got it right on the dime so it doesn’t way heavy. Hes having a btr4 cam installed down the road might change it in a year or so. But I always wanted to know the true difference of a i and h beam and the current power limit of the titanium rods
04-20-2018, 04:55 PM
#25
While I can't comment on how the rods would hold up under boost, I can attest to the fact that they'll absolutely take a beating in a drag car running 10.0xx and spinning as high as 7800RPM even after a few thousand passes.
In my prior car (the red one that was stolen back in 2015) I ended up blowing my motor a few times because of cracked pistons (both stock and aftermarket) as well as a dropped valve and the builder I was using at the time couldn't get over how well the rods held up as I was able to reuse them in (I think) three separate builds.
Who is this builder you're referring to by the way?
In my prior car (the red one that was stolen back in 2015) I ended up blowing my motor a few times because of cracked pistons (both stock and aftermarket) as well as a dropped valve and the builder I was using at the time couldn't get over how well the rods held up as I was able to reuse them in (I think) three separate builds.
Who is this builder you're referring to by the way?
hes in texas his name is Lamar use to work for chevy Has a masters in metallurgy and always worked with heads and building engines as his hobby and developer for gm. He’s being doing this for 50 years he’s friends with Jason from Katech he should know him he buys from
him and other suppliers. Real good nice guy. And that’s a science if you didn’t know so he isn’t dumb. From what he’s telling me is the reason for dropped valves is the material they use wear each other or another out forgot what he said
04-20-2018, 04:56 PM
#26
Hopefully this won't be considered a thread hijack, but how happy are you with the quality of HPR's work? I'm taking delivery of a 454 from them next week and can't wait to get it installed. I almost bought their 468 but it would have taken an additional three weeks to build because of the custom pistons and I didn't think the additional $ was worth it compared to what I paid for the 454.
04-20-2018, 05:24 PM
#27
Hopefully this won't be considered a thread hijack, but how happy are you with the quality of HPR's work? I'm taking delivery of a 454 from them next week and can't wait to get it installed. I almost bought their 468 but it would have taken an additional three weeks to build because of the custom pistons and I didn't think the additional $ was worth it compared to what I paid for the 454.
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HP RESEARCH (04-23-2018)
04-20-2018, 05:33 PM
#28
Supporting Vendor
04-20-2018, 06:25 PM
#29
04-20-2018, 06:38 PM
#30
Supporting Vendor
Mine will only see the miles accumulate 1/4 at a time but given the internal components and the fact the block will me more durable because of the Darton sleeves I don't see any reason why it wouldn't hold up.
04-20-2018, 09:00 PM
#31
Ehh NA is to expensive I might just do another shortblock in a year for boost something to handle 800whp and eventually go up to 1200whp I have a sickness for quickness. That 600whp HCI z had me falling in love! When it hooks with the 275 Hoosiers oh man
Last edited by 427V8BB; 04-20-2018 at 09:01 PM.
04-20-2018, 10:32 PM
#32
Supporting Vendor
At that power level you'll be right at the limit of what the 275s can hold. A 315 Hoosier would be a much better choice in my opinion.
04-20-2018, 10:42 PM
#33
04-21-2018, 01:53 AM
#34
Supporting Vendor
04-23-2018, 04:12 PM
#35
Former Vendor
Michael_D made a good point in that no one really has failed a rod because of HP, so to know what they would fail at...hard to say. I know Erik here has done a few over 1000 whp and he wasn't to crazy about using them because of that unknown.
Now when most people say they are trash, to a point they are. Generally they are hard to work with, clearances can be all over the place, rod bolts are harder to work with because they want to gall to the material and if the sides on the big end do not have their factory coating they need to be sent off again or you can run the risk of them galling to each other on mating pairs of rods. Remember these are a powdered metal Ti, not a forged Ti rod like you might find with Aero, Carrillo or similar. The small ends typically don't have any issues so long as they didn't get hot. Most of the time you can simply hone them out to the larger 0.927 pins and rock that without even having to do much on that side. Now that is the machine shop side of things speaking and wanting clearances a bit more closer to each other. Would they run with a little variance, sure and they do all the time.
One thing on here that no one has really said is by going to a steel rod on a stock LS7 crank you might find your self in a more expensive balancing act. Generally speaking the LS7's have a fairly light bob weight and adding 200 grams worth of rod to it might end up meaning you are going to have a $300-500 bill worth of added heavy metal to the crank just to get it to balance out.
The hard part for us to jump up and down about using them for customers, again is that unknown, and if you have a bad one in the set you are wanting to re-use GM wants a pretty penny for new ones. We try and save what we can on any damaged engines that come in just for that reason but that isn't always the case.
Now when most people say they are trash, to a point they are. Generally they are hard to work with, clearances can be all over the place, rod bolts are harder to work with because they want to gall to the material and if the sides on the big end do not have their factory coating they need to be sent off again or you can run the risk of them galling to each other on mating pairs of rods. Remember these are a powdered metal Ti, not a forged Ti rod like you might find with Aero, Carrillo or similar. The small ends typically don't have any issues so long as they didn't get hot. Most of the time you can simply hone them out to the larger 0.927 pins and rock that without even having to do much on that side. Now that is the machine shop side of things speaking and wanting clearances a bit more closer to each other. Would they run with a little variance, sure and they do all the time.
One thing on here that no one has really said is by going to a steel rod on a stock LS7 crank you might find your self in a more expensive balancing act. Generally speaking the LS7's have a fairly light bob weight and adding 200 grams worth of rod to it might end up meaning you are going to have a $300-500 bill worth of added heavy metal to the crank just to get it to balance out.
The hard part for us to jump up and down about using them for customers, again is that unknown, and if you have a bad one in the set you are wanting to re-use GM wants a pretty penny for new ones. We try and save what we can on any damaged engines that come in just for that reason but that isn't always the case.
Last edited by HP RESEARCH; 04-23-2018 at 04:21 PM.
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Che70velle (04-23-2018)
04-23-2018, 04:16 PM
#36
Race Director
oh oh trust me lol he prob knows more than 99% on this forum but I like to hear from others as well and he got back to me he says there hasn’t been enough testing to know these rods will
last 600-700whp for ever and since I might go with no’s or boost he doesn’t like the stock rods for it they were meant for 505 crank hp. I also talked to Cunningham Motorsports in so cal and they said not to use any boost or nos on stock rods if you want them to last for ever they just were not built for it. They said they can take 800whp NA but not boosted or sprayed the way the torque comes
in just beats them down from what I was told
i think it’s cause he knows I’m also putting every penny into this and doesn’t want the same thing happening again so
hes giving me some free I beams to help me with my build this guy is so nice that he isn’t charging me for my new btr4 cam and head work. But me as I am I’m gonna pay him all back for it. Just how I am wish there were more people like my engine builder.
04-23-2018, 04:19 PM
#37
Former Vendor
While I can't find it right now, I did believe that the OEM Ti rods have been made by two different companies and the early cars did have a better made rod than the later cars.....but I can not confirm that right now.
04-23-2018, 04:51 PM
#38
Former Vendor
Stock Ti rod, re-coated by Calico with a forged Wiseco replacement piston
As you can see they are pretty generous with how much they coat it, but it least it helps against them rubbing into each other. We do also switch to a ARP bolt and all clearances are checked with them installed accordingly.
04-23-2018, 05:35 PM
#39
can I get a core charge of 2000$ first? Lol they’re not bad don’t be a smart *** but honestly you think you can get 700whp for a long time with the stock rods? 50k miles? Why can’t these engines be robust like the new 5.0s they can take 700-800whp with 50k miles (supposedly) from this performance shop that I was talking to about a blower for my friends car. Funny story my friend couldn’t wait so he bought it himself even though I told him to let me do it and the moron bought the wrong blower lmao
