[Z06] I got the itch again, my build 2.0
04-25-2018, 02:17 PM
#21
Example of a customer I have:
Guy was running a custom cam I put together and had ground for him (226/242). I then thoroughly tuned the vehicle to a perfect result everywhere. Car ran and drove beautifully and was running low 10's 1/4 mile (drag race guy).
He wanted more and I advised against it, but still spec'd out a new/bigger cam for him (246/258), kept lift the same, and lobe profiles were the same. I did my best to optimize a balance of the valve events between the 2 based on the difference in duration.
I am a professional tuner, and was able to get the big cam to behave reasonable on the street but not nearly as enjoyable to drive as the smaller cam.
The end result, the bigger cam made 25whp more at redline (7200rpm), but lost between 10-30 foot lbs of torque (this is HP here as well) almost everywhere below 5400 rpm. Went to the track and was consistently 3-4 tenths SLOWER.
I integrated the area under the HP and torque curves between 3000 and 7200 RPM and the smaller cam produced approximately 8% MORE.
Needless to say, we swapped the old cam back in because the car was faster and much easier and more enjoyable to drive on the street ha ha ha
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions though. I am just speaking from my experience (this is just 1 example).
Guy was running a custom cam I put together and had ground for him (226/242). I then thoroughly tuned the vehicle to a perfect result everywhere. Car ran and drove beautifully and was running low 10's 1/4 mile (drag race guy).
He wanted more and I advised against it, but still spec'd out a new/bigger cam for him (246/258), kept lift the same, and lobe profiles were the same. I did my best to optimize a balance of the valve events between the 2 based on the difference in duration.
I am a professional tuner, and was able to get the big cam to behave reasonable on the street but not nearly as enjoyable to drive as the smaller cam.
The end result, the bigger cam made 25whp more at redline (7200rpm), but lost between 10-30 foot lbs of torque (this is HP here as well) almost everywhere below 5400 rpm. Went to the track and was consistently 3-4 tenths SLOWER.
I integrated the area under the HP and torque curves between 3000 and 7200 RPM and the smaller cam produced approximately 8% MORE.
Needless to say, we swapped the old cam back in because the car was faster and much easier and more enjoyable to drive on the street ha ha ha
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions though. I am just speaking from my experience (this is just 1 example).
i completely agree with you. I have ran cams as low as 8 degrees of overlap and up to a 25 degrees of overlap and I have come to the conclusion that the best cam for me has an overlap between 13 and 15. Here is my corrected dyno with my current 13 degree overlap cam. The STD shows numbers that are about 20hp higher across the board. I can cruise in 6th as low as 1100 rpms and I can also run a 250 shot through this motor.
04-25-2018, 03:27 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Everyone has a defined purpose/intent with their own vehicle.
I assure you, this "larger" cam combo trottle response is beyond explosive.
When compared to the cam it replaced (19 deg OL) there are no losses anywhere within the power band, even with the dip. It gained over 20HP/TQ until the dip. The dip that is referenced, is due to the collector design of the ARH Header not to the cam. The headers were changed with the combo.
Another thing that you are missing is that the intake is a highly modified Short Runner MSD, not your standard runner lenght ported MSD.
The runners are about 2" shorter than your standard MSD. If you take into account "losses due to shorter runner length " then the numbers down low when compared to the "mild" cam are much more impressive.
There is much more to a combination that just a cam. I was not critical of the OP cam selection, just making a point that well throughout combo is what makes it or break it.
By the way, these are my own cam specs, my own work on the intake and my own final work on the heads. I do my own work on my 2 Z06s so yes, Im very observant and critical of my work.
For reference I have attached a quick pic of the modified MSD.
I assure you, this "larger" cam combo trottle response is beyond explosive.
When compared to the cam it replaced (19 deg OL) there are no losses anywhere within the power band, even with the dip. It gained over 20HP/TQ until the dip. The dip that is referenced, is due to the collector design of the ARH Header not to the cam. The headers were changed with the combo.
Another thing that you are missing is that the intake is a highly modified Short Runner MSD, not your standard runner lenght ported MSD.
The runners are about 2" shorter than your standard MSD. If you take into account "losses due to shorter runner length " then the numbers down low when compared to the "mild" cam are much more impressive.
There is much more to a combination that just a cam. I was not critical of the OP cam selection, just making a point that well throughout combo is what makes it or break it.
By the way, these are my own cam specs, my own work on the intake and my own final work on the heads. I do my own work on my 2 Z06s so yes, Im very observant and critical of my work.
For reference I have attached a quick pic of the modified MSD.
Last edited by Da Z06; 04-25-2018 at 06:15 PM.
04-25-2018, 04:47 PM
#25
Racer
And this is not an apples to apples comparison...each one of your combos (supporting mods) are probably quite a bit different with the cam not being the ONLY thing.
I just shared a single TRUE apples to apples comparison, camshaft to camshaft of a customers car and our results. That's all.
That being said if I can make the car QUICKER and FASTER, thats really what it comes down to, regardless of what combo produces that result. A dyno means jack ****. Its a tuning device (if you actually run it on a load bearing dyno and not a garbage Dynojet).
Real world vehicle testing tells the truth. There is a lot of variance from dyno to dyno, correction factors etc etc. These numbers definitely should not be compared between these 2 graphs.
So in conclusion, if said application can be quicker and faster with the ability to spin everything slower (durability, reliability, reduced wear, reduced failures), I know what avenue I would take...or rather I DO take
Carry on, I have to get back on the dyno now....
I just shared a single TRUE apples to apples comparison, camshaft to camshaft of a customers car and our results. That's all.
That being said if I can make the car QUICKER and FASTER, thats really what it comes down to, regardless of what combo produces that result. A dyno means jack ****. Its a tuning device (if you actually run it on a load bearing dyno and not a garbage Dynojet).
Real world vehicle testing tells the truth. There is a lot of variance from dyno to dyno, correction factors etc etc. These numbers definitely should not be compared between these 2 graphs.
So in conclusion, if said application can be quicker and faster with the ability to spin everything slower (durability, reliability, reduced wear, reduced failures), I know what avenue I would take...or rather I DO take
Carry on, I have to get back on the dyno now....
Last edited by roastin300; 04-25-2018 at 04:48 PM.
04-25-2018, 05:21 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
And this is not an apples to apples comparison...each one of your combos (supporting mods) are probably quite a bit different with the cam not being the ONLY thing.
I just shared a single TRUE apples to apples comparison, camshaft to camshaft of a customers car and our results. That's all.
That being said if I can make the car QUICKER and FASTER, thats really what it comes down to, regardless of what combo produces that result. A dyno means jack ****. Its a tuning device (if you actually run it on a load bearing dyno and not a garbage Dynojet).
Real world vehicle testing tells the truth. There is a lot of variance from dyno to dyno, correction factors etc etc. These numbers definitely should not be compared between these 2 graphs.
So in conclusion, if said application can be quicker and faster with the ability to spin everything slower (durability, reliability, reduced wear, reduced failures), I know what avenue I would take...or rather I DO take
Carry on, I have to get back on the dyno now....
I just shared a single TRUE apples to apples comparison, camshaft to camshaft of a customers car and our results. That's all.
That being said if I can make the car QUICKER and FASTER, thats really what it comes down to, regardless of what combo produces that result. A dyno means jack ****. Its a tuning device (if you actually run it on a load bearing dyno and not a garbage Dynojet).
Real world vehicle testing tells the truth. There is a lot of variance from dyno to dyno, correction factors etc etc. These numbers definitely should not be compared between these 2 graphs.
So in conclusion, if said application can be quicker and faster with the ability to spin everything slower (durability, reliability, reduced wear, reduced failures), I know what avenue I would take...or rather I DO take
Carry on, I have to get back on the dyno now....
Bring your little cam car, and Ill bring my big cam car and lets rum 'em.
That is the true dyno.
Yes, you may carry 'on now.
04-25-2018, 06:14 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
04-25-2018, 06:41 PM
#29
I have participated in quite a few 1/2 mile events and every HCI Z06 are within a few mph’s of each other whether they are at 600 or 560. A 600+ whp Z will be slightly faster but not by much. In a shorter race (1/4 mile) it has much more to do with the driver and tires.
However I guarantee that my car drives better and I can always spray at the track which makes the cam size meaningless.
However I guarantee that my car drives better and I can always spray at the track which makes the cam size meaningless.
Last edited by lamboworld; 04-25-2018 at 06:45 PM.
04-25-2018, 06:46 PM
#30
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I've seen a stock LS7 with the torquer 110 run in the 10's in the quarter with 12 degrees overlap.
Last edited by vertC6; 04-25-2018 at 06:51 PM.
04-27-2018, 03:27 PM
#31
We all have our own reasons to how we mod our cars but I am going to throw this out here for anyone that is planning to switch things up or start a new build. Here are the results from the wannagofast 1/2 mile event in Dallas. As you can see, all of the HCI Z06’s were within a couple of mph’s of one another, whether they were at 560whp or 620whp. I suspect that is about a car length difference.
https://wannagofast.com/event-time/d...il2018_fin.htm
https://wannagofast.com/event-time/d...il2018_fin.htm
05-15-2018, 10:19 AM
#32
