New Guy Questions
05-05-2018, 09:40 PM
#1
New Guy Questions
First off, I just bought my C6Z about two weeks ago. Velocity Yellow(hence the name), under 40k miles in Pittsburgh PA. I'm active duty in Hampton Roads.
I'm planning a complete bolt on build, with top internals. I think I've gathered enough information from the years on what I want to do. This forum and you guys have so much experience in here, and lessons learned that it made it easy to make the decisions to get to 600 whp on a stock bottom and na.
Originally I wanted to go ECS or A&A centri supercharged, likely ECS due to location. Couldn't go wrong with either in my opinion, but then the guide rod and valvetrain issues with the LS7 made me paranoid. The engine sounds great, like a sewing machine, not super smooth. I plan to remove the valve covers next weekend for the wiggle test.
in the mean time, something I haven't been able to entirely find and easy answer on by searching. I believe it's a sub contracting issue from GM having somebody else machine the heads, and tolerance getting messed up there. However, have there been any correlations between the actual builders of the engine, and engines with dropped valves?
Just looking for some reassurance. This winter I'm going with AHP, and just rebuilding them. Only planning on driving the Z on nice sunny days, a little spirited driving, but I would hate to lose the motor when I've already got plans on a top end rebuild about 8 months down the road after I save a little more.
Huge thanks to all of you guys for all the information you've gathered here. Very happy to finally be an owner of a true piece of American History!
I'm planning a complete bolt on build, with top internals. I think I've gathered enough information from the years on what I want to do. This forum and you guys have so much experience in here, and lessons learned that it made it easy to make the decisions to get to 600 whp on a stock bottom and na.
Originally I wanted to go ECS or A&A centri supercharged, likely ECS due to location. Couldn't go wrong with either in my opinion, but then the guide rod and valvetrain issues with the LS7 made me paranoid. The engine sounds great, like a sewing machine, not super smooth. I plan to remove the valve covers next weekend for the wiggle test.
in the mean time, something I haven't been able to entirely find and easy answer on by searching. I believe it's a sub contracting issue from GM having somebody else machine the heads, and tolerance getting messed up there. However, have there been any correlations between the actual builders of the engine, and engines with dropped valves?
Just looking for some reassurance. This winter I'm going with AHP, and just rebuilding them. Only planning on driving the Z on nice sunny days, a little spirited driving, but I would hate to lose the motor when I've already got plans on a top end rebuild about 8 months down the road after I save a little more.
Huge thanks to all of you guys for all the information you've gathered here. Very happy to finally be an owner of a true piece of American History!
05-06-2018, 01:20 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
Member Since: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
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St. Jude Donor '08
Welcome and congratulations on your new (to you) Z. I like to be on the cautious side, and would have the head fix as soon as possible. I personally recommend using AHP, American Heritage Performance, LS7 head package 4 as the fix. Search the forum, as there are a ton of posts on this subject.
Great choice of car.
Great choice of car.
05-06-2018, 08:48 AM
#4
Race Director
Member Since: Mar 2006
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere at all
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Welcome to the club... Love the VY C6Z's... w close to 40K if you are planning on spirited driving I would caution you to do the heads sooner than later... Sounds as though you will be doing it yourself. $1500 is pretty cheap insurance. do the cam and bolt ons this winter... do the heads now... Seems as of late their are valve drop stories more frequently even from guys coasting to a light at 800 rpm's... $15K... or $1500... its your choice. Are you a gambling man...?
Last edited by TXGS507; 05-06-2018 at 08:49 AM.
05-06-2018, 11:44 AM
#5
Welcome to the club... Love the VY C6Z's... w close to 40K if you are planning on spirited driving I would caution you to do the heads sooner than later... Sounds as though you will be doing it yourself. $1500 is pretty cheap insurance. do the cam and bolt ons this winter... do the heads now... Seems as of late their are valve drop stories more frequently even from guys coasting to a light at 800 rpm's... $15K... or $1500... its your choice. Are you a gambling man...?
yeah I had the same plan in mind but I was too scared ended up doing head/cam/headers within the second week of ownership. Have no regrets, except for one thing. Lool
05-06-2018, 12:38 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Call AHP now and get that ball rolling. They’re pretty busy so it might take some time to get your stuff even if you start the process now.
Great guys and a great product. If you’re just going to be using it for spirited driving you probably don’t need all the bells and whistles. But if you want 600 at the wheel don’t hold back.
Great guys and a great product. If you’re just going to be using it for spirited driving you probably don’t need all the bells and whistles. But if you want 600 at the wheel don’t hold back.
Last edited by Jfryjfry; 05-06-2018 at 01:41 PM.
05-06-2018, 01:03 PM
#7
I need to give AHP a call this week. OH8Z06 its the exact stories of 800 rpm driving dropping valves, and noticing more and more often now that these stories are coming up. It doesn't seem like the stories are going to end any time soon, and i don't want to be the next one. Which is why i was a little curious if anybody has correlated engine data to individuals that may have built the motors. Maybe it's a few builders who didn't turn away bad components, or take the time to measure for tolerances.
I do plan to go with all the bells and whistles, and would really enjoy to do the work myself. There's a great DIY install here of the heads that I saw a few weeks ago. Certainly a time consuming build, but i love getting my hands dirty and learning. Setting the timing is my only concern, doing the install myself.
Curious about some of the higher quality shops that do cylinder head installs/cam swaps, do they use any machines that make setting timing correct easier and more accurate? Or do they also do everything by hand and eye? If a shop can build to better reliability from high quality tools, maaaybe i'll just go that route.
I do plan to go with all the bells and whistles, and would really enjoy to do the work myself. There's a great DIY install here of the heads that I saw a few weeks ago. Certainly a time consuming build, but i love getting my hands dirty and learning. Setting the timing is my only concern, doing the install myself.
Curious about some of the higher quality shops that do cylinder head installs/cam swaps, do they use any machines that make setting timing correct easier and more accurate? Or do they also do everything by hand and eye? If a shop can build to better reliability from high quality tools, maaaybe i'll just go that route.
05-06-2018, 02:18 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
There is no "correlation" with anything with the heads, they had issues. We are very happy you are familiar with the issue and doing something about it. With 40,000 miles, we are.all going to suggest getting them done asap, as like you said, many have dropped at 1000 Rpms. Congratulations on the car.
05-06-2018, 03:55 PM
#9
Drifting
Swapping the heads now and doing a tune will be cheap. It is when you want a decent sized cam things get expensive. Big cam-headers-MSD haha, cams love air in and out. That and milled heads. I am active as well, what branch?
05-06-2018, 04:21 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
There is no "correlation" with anything with the heads, they had issues. We are very happy you are familiar with the issue and doing something about it. With 40,000 miles, we are.all going to suggest getting them done asap, as like you said, many have dropped at 1000 Rpms. Congratulations on the car.
05-06-2018, 04:49 PM
#11
The valvetrain issue is such a problem because it doesn't seem anybody had any signs that the failure was even coming. It just happens... Some people seem to have pretty good luck, lots of miles, hpde, and drag strip runs with all bolt ons and no internals. I don't know if I'm that person to have that kind of luck haha, but i'm not taking the risk.
05-06-2018, 06:02 PM
#12
Team Owner
I’m in the camp of don’t go FI on stock bottom end. Pistons and sleeves are the weak link.
05-06-2018, 08:06 PM
#13
Exhaust, brakes, battery, coilovers, sway bar, and wheels to get under 3,000 pounds. These cars are phenomenal...
There's a lot of different driving styles, some better than others. But the wheelbase, width, and aftermarket products available make the C6Z's such an amazing ride. I can't wait to get started.
Last edited by VelocityC6z; 05-06-2018 at 08:08 PM.
05-06-2018, 08:22 PM
#14
Drifting
I'm Navy, how about you?
The valvetrain issue is such a problem because it doesn't seem anybody had any signs that the failure was even coming. It just happens... Some people seem to have pretty good luck, lots of miles, hpde, and drag strip runs with all bolt ons and no internals. I don't know if I'm that person to have that kind of luck haha, but i'm not taking the risk.
The valvetrain issue is such a problem because it doesn't seem anybody had any signs that the failure was even coming. It just happens... Some people seem to have pretty good luck, lots of miles, hpde, and drag strip runs with all bolt ons and no internals. I don't know if I'm that person to have that kind of luck haha, but i'm not taking the risk.
It is best to go ahead and get it done. Mine started making louder noises and I would rather spend money on heads/cam/headers/intake than for a whole new engine. Luck is something I do not have lol, that is why I went ahead and did it.
05-06-2018, 08:29 PM
#15
Not much luck here either. Great point... after getting them done, does it still sound like a sewing machine?
05-06-2018, 08:30 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
It shouldn't matter if the power comes from boost or NA. power is power, heat from fuel in terms of Watts (Joules/sec) or Horsepower it doesn't make a difference whether there is boost or not.
Superchargers though, they require power to spin. So you make 600 to the tire, but the supercharger is eating 100-125hp. So its really a 725 to the tire combo. And now remove drivetrain losses and your at over 800hp at the engine. Thats why they get a bad rap IMO.
there are lots, LOTS of people using turbochargers on Near-stock LS engines, even from 2002~ era an All original 5.3L truck Iron block with factory cast pistons seems to support over 600RWHP for 50,000+ miles. those engines cost about $400-$600 around here, as many as you want. So I could never spend more than $1000 on an engine if I only wanted 600 or 700 horsepower.
Superchargers though, they require power to spin. So you make 600 to the tire, but the supercharger is eating 100-125hp. So its really a 725 to the tire combo. And now remove drivetrain losses and your at over 800hp at the engine. Thats why they get a bad rap IMO.
there are lots, LOTS of people using turbochargers on Near-stock LS engines, even from 2002~ era an All original 5.3L truck Iron block with factory cast pistons seems to support over 600RWHP for 50,000+ miles. those engines cost about $400-$600 around here, as many as you want. So I could never spend more than $1000 on an engine if I only wanted 600 or 700 horsepower.
05-06-2018, 09:03 PM
#17
Drifting
I am not done yet lol, between the military and my detailing business, I have to find time work on her!
05-06-2018, 09:39 PM
#18
It shouldn't matter if the power comes from boost or NA. power is power, heat from fuel in terms of Watts (Joules/sec) or Horsepower it doesn't make a difference whether there is boost or not.
Superchargers though, they require power to spin. So you make 600 to the tire, but the supercharger is eating 100-125hp. So its really a 725 to the tire combo. And now remove drivetrain losses and your at over 800hp at the engine. Thats why they get a bad rap IMO.
there are lots, LOTS of people using turbochargers on Near-stock LS engines, even from 2002~ era an All original 5.3L truck Iron block with factory cast pistons seems to support over 600RWHP for 50,000+ miles. those engines cost about $400-$600 around here, as many as you want. So I could never spend more than $1000 on an engine if I only wanted 600 or 700 horsepower.
Superchargers though, they require power to spin. So you make 600 to the tire, but the supercharger is eating 100-125hp. So its really a 725 to the tire combo. And now remove drivetrain losses and your at over 800hp at the engine. Thats why they get a bad rap IMO.
there are lots, LOTS of people using turbochargers on Near-stock LS engines, even from 2002~ era an All original 5.3L truck Iron block with factory cast pistons seems to support over 600RWHP for 50,000+ miles. those engines cost about $400-$600 around here, as many as you want. So I could never spend more than $1000 on an engine if I only wanted 600 or 700 horsepower.
05-06-2018, 09:49 PM
#19
Finding time to take leave is easy, but finding time to enjoy it and not catch up on work around the house is the hard part.
05-06-2018, 09:54 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
I can't tell if you understood what I meant, which is to avoid all superchargers and use only turbochargers on combustion engines. Even if it needs to go in the back of the car. there is a 2000 horsepower twin rear mount vette running around, doing mile races just fine.