Go Back  CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion > C6 Corvette, 2005 - 2013 > C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06
Reload this Page >

[Z06] Bauer Motorsports Build: WCCH All Pro 290, Solid Roller, ERL 454, 14:1 SCR

Notices
C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06 General info about GMís Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track Advertisement

[Z06] Bauer Motorsports Build: WCCH All Pro 290, Solid Roller, ERL 454, 14:1 SCR

 
Old 09-20-2018, 09:17 PM
  #261  
Innovate
CF Senior Member
 
Innovate's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2017
Location: Sumter SC
Posts: 1,508
Liked 122 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Morimoto lights? Not a fan. Cup Wheels will look dope and carbon ZR1 bits will be nice. I would not do any aero due to you wanting to do half-mile with the car and you will slow down.

Awesome on the progress, definitely interested on seeing this done.
Innovate is offline  
Old 09-20-2018, 09:21 PM
  #262  
Josh B.
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Josh B.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2014
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 2,540
Liked 506 Times in 377 Posts
Default

That's why I wrote that I'd do aero later on, because of the drag.
Josh B. is offline  
Old 09-20-2018, 09:37 PM
  #263  
Innovate
CF Senior Member
 
Innovate's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2017
Location: Sumter SC
Posts: 1,508
Liked 122 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Josh B. View Post
That's why I wrote that I'd do aero later on, because of the drag.
Maybe I should read. I saw pretty ZR1 and thought about that.
Innovate is offline  
Old 09-20-2018, 10:10 PM
  #264  
Mordeth
CF Senior Member
 
Mordeth's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 2,287
Liked 1,028 Times in 621 Posts
2018 C6 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '10, '17
Default

In testing, I lose about 5 mph on the back straight of WGI due to the very small, inconsequential wing on my C6Z. On my C7Z with the rear wicker added I lose 8 mph. In the highest position I lose 12 mph. The wicker produces much more drag than the wing due to it's inefficient shape. All else being equal, drag grows exponentially with speed and therefore the amount of drag is not only growing but accelerating as you go faster(this is bad). And since drag is proportional to the square of speed, the power needed to overcome that drag is proportional to the cube of speed. So you need expend larger and larger amounts of power to overcome drag as speed increases. At that point, the shape, position, construction and angle of the airfoil becomes exceedingly important, as you can reduce the impact of drag while maintaining similar downforce simply with a more efficient design. I use a top mounted, swan neck style wing on my C6Z with large endplates and an integrated gurney channel....all of which create downforce more effectively and efficiently than a wicker/spoiler. It's always a trade-off though. Downforce, however desirable, is rarely free.
Mordeth is offline  
Old 09-20-2018, 10:24 PM
  #265  
Josh B.
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Josh B.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2014
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 2,540
Liked 506 Times in 377 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Mordeth View Post
In testing, I lose about 5 mph on the back straight of WGI due to the very small, inconsequential wing on my C6Z. On my C7Z with the rear wicker added I lose 8 mph. In the highest position I lose 12 mph. The wicker produces much more drag than the wing due to it's inefficient shape. All else being equal, drag grows exponentially with speed and therefore the amount of drag is not only growing but accelerating as you go faster(this is bad). And since drag is proportional to the square of speed, the power needed to overcome that drag is proportional to the cube of speed. So you need expend larger and larger amounts of power to overcome drag as speed increases. At that point, the shape, position, construction and angle of the airfoil becomes exceedingly important, as you can reduce the impact of drag while maintaining similar downforce simply with a more efficient design. I use a top mounted, swan neck style wing on my C6Z with large endplates and an integrated gurney channel....all of which create downforce more effectively and efficiently than a wicker/spoiler. It's always a trade-off though. Downforce, however desirable, is rarely free.
Awesome info. It makes sense that GM went to a wing on the C7 ZR1 for a bit more efficiency in achieving rear downforce. Which reminds me, I asked you awhile back about removing my airdams under the front fascia. I'm going to unbolt the sides and cut and remove the center one with a razor blade.
Josh B. is offline  
The following users liked this post: Josh B.
jayyyw (09-23-2018)
Old 09-20-2018, 11:44 PM
  #266  
AzDave47
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
AzDave47's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2011
Location: AZ
Posts: 7,273
Liked 444 Times in 400 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Josh B. View Post
Awesome info. It makes sense that GM went to a wing on the C7 ZR1 for a bit more efficiency in achieving rear downforce. Which reminds me, I asked you awhile back about removing my airdams under the front fascia. I'm going to unbolt the sides and cut and remove the center one with a razor blade.


I did that to my Z, Josh, removing the outer two pieces and essentially cutting the centyer to half level.. When I installed my 4" brake cooling ducts from the front grill and no longer needed to have the high pressure under the front fascia to direct air into the brake cooling. If you are just doing straight line events, removing all of the air dam will be OK. I do road course work and left about half of the center part to create some negative pressure behind to draw air thru the radiator. For road course work, that did not generate enough flow thru the Dewitts radiator on 100* days for cooling (245* water, 290* oil) which is why I went with the LG hood to get improved cooling thru the radiator without having to suffer the front end lift at high speed.
AzDave47 is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 01:06 AM
  #267  
Josh B.
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Josh B.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2014
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 2,540
Liked 506 Times in 377 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AzDave47 View Post

I did that to my Z, Josh, removing the outer two pieces and essentially cutting the centyer to half level.. When I installed my 4" brake cooling ducts from the front grill and no longer needed to have the high pressure under the front fascia to direct air into the brake cooling. If you are just doing straight line events, removing all of the air dam will be OK. I do road course work and left about half of the center part to create some negative pressure behind to draw air thru the radiator. For road course work, that did not generate enough flow thru the Dewitts radiator on 100* days for cooling (245* water, 290* oil) which is why I went with the LG hood to get improved cooling thru the radiator without having to suffer the front end lift at high speed.
Awesome info. I'll cut it off then since I'm mostly straight line and gotta have that mph.
Josh B. is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 07:38 AM
  #268  
Mordeth
CF Senior Member
 
Mordeth's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2005
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 2,287
Liked 1,028 Times in 621 Posts
2018 C6 of Year Finalist
St. Jude Donor '10, '17
Default

Originally Posted by Josh B. View Post
Awesome info. It makes sense that GM went to a wing on the C7 ZR1 for a bit more efficiency in achieving rear downforce. Which reminds me, I asked you awhile back about removing my airdams under the front fascia. I'm going to unbolt the sides and cut and remove the center one with a razor blade.
Yes, remove the sides and cut down the middle. If you are concerned over temps, you can cut the middle down to roughly in half or so (height) and leave the length the same. In that one particular spot you want to slightly disrupt the air flowing under the car as it will create a high pressure area in front of the dam which in turn creates a low pressure area behind it to pull hot air out the bottom of the engine compartment. It adds a tiny bit of drag, but in my opinion might be worth the trade-off if temps are a concern (and as you know I hate drag and lift so I only create it when necessary).

If you don't have any cooling issues then cut the whole thing off and be done with it. At the track, no one has that silly air dam on their car (either removed or cut down significantly).

Due to the very small, easy to conceal and relatively inconsequential wing on the rear of my car ( ) I need to run significant front aero to balance my car, so I fabricated an extended front splitter out of ABS and run a full undertray almost to the pan as well as dive planes (canards). Not suggesting you go anywhere near as radical as me but know that the C6Z suffers from front end lift at speed and so anything you can do to mitigate this (like ditching the air dam) is useful.







And here is me at around 150mph. You can see the wing doing serious work (compression on the rear) and the front aero is balancing it adequately. I have literally hundreds of high speed pics of my car and am continually making adjustments based on what I see from the these pics and from the telemetry I gather. I had added wing angle for these particular tests.


Mordeth is offline  
The following users liked this post: Mordeth
yur2slo (09-21-2018)
Old 09-21-2018, 08:47 AM
  #269  
MickVette
CF Senior Member
 
MickVette's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 741
Liked 55 Times in 43 Posts
St. Jude Donor '13
Default

Originally Posted by Mordeth View Post
Yes, remove the sides and cut down the middle. If you are concerned over temps, you can cut the middle down to roughly in half or so (height) and leave the length the same. In that one particular spot you want to slightly disrupt the air flowing under the car as it will create a high pressure area in front of the dam which in turn creates a low pressure area behind it to pull hot air out the bottom of the engine compartment. It adds a tiny bit of drag, but in my opinion might be worth the trade-off if temps are a concern (and as you know I hate drag and lift so I only create it when necessary).

If you don't have any cooling issues then cut the whole thing off and be done with it. At the track, no one has that silly air dam on their car (either removed or cut down significantly).

Due to the very small, easy to conceal and relatively inconsequential wing on the rear of my car ( ) I need to run significant front aero to balance my car, so I fabricated an extended front splitter out of ABS and run a full undertray almost to the pan as well as dive planes (canards). Not suggesting you go anywhere near as radical as me but know that the C6Z suffers from front end lift at speed and so anything you can do to mitigate this (like ditching the air dam) is useful.







And here is me at around 150mph. You can see the wing doing serious work (compression on the rear) and the front aero is balancing it adequately. I have literally hundreds of high speed pics of my car and am continually making adjustments based on what I see from the these pics and from the telemetry I gather. I had added wing angle for these particular tests.

Great information and pictures illustrating the effects. I have a question about the rear bumper cover. Looking from under the vehicle, the rear bumper cover looks like a parachute to me. Did you have to do anything to keep air from filling that area?

You have a rear wing? Didn't notice. LOL

Last edited by MickVette; 09-21-2018 at 08:48 AM. Reason: typo
MickVette is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 11:44 AM
  #270  
Sled Driver
CF Member
 
Member Since: Feb 2012
Posts: 99
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default

What wing? I must need my eyes checked.
Sled Driver is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 12:23 PM
  #271  
double06
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: May 2006
Location: Potomac MD
Posts: 2,175
Liked 69 Times in 67 Posts
Default

You might want to do a cam sensor while you are there. After 10 years, mine the plastic ballooned (.015) I had to pry it out. New one went in with no force.
double06 is offline  
The following users liked this post: double06
Josh B. (09-21-2018)
Old 09-21-2018, 12:40 PM
  #272  
Josh B.
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Josh B.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2014
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 2,540
Liked 506 Times in 377 Posts
Default

Good call. Pretty sure my cam sensor was a PITA when installing the 454, too. Yeah, probably due for a new one.
Josh B. is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 12:44 PM
  #273  
ramairws6
CF Senior Member
 
ramairws6's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: Hicksville MN
Posts: 990
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by double06 View Post
You might want to do a cam sensor while you are there. After 10 years, mine the plastic ballooned (.015) I had to pry it out. New one went in with no force.
Excellent advice! I ended up pulling my timing cover last year because I couldn't get mine out without destroying it. What a PITA!!
ramairws6 is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:01 PM
  #274  
Da Z06
CF Senior Member
 
Da Z06's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2014
Location: GA
Posts: 885
Liked 65 Times in 59 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by AzDave47 View Post

I did that to my Z, Josh, removing the outer two pieces and essentially cutting the centyer to half level.. When I installed my 4" brake cooling ducts from the front grill and no longer needed to have the high pressure under the front fascia to direct air into the brake cooling. If you are just doing straight line events, removing all of the air dam will be OK. I do road course work and left about half of the center part to create some negative pressure behind to draw air thru the radiator. For road course work, that did not generate enough flow thru the Dewitts radiator on 100* days for cooling (245* water, 290* oil) which is why I went with the LG hood to get improved cooling thru the radiator without having to suffer the front end lift at high speed.
Do you have some pics of this? I'm unable to visualize for whatever reason.
Da Z06 is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:24 PM
  #275  
Josh B.
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Josh B.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2014
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 2,540
Liked 506 Times in 377 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Mordeth View Post
In testing, I lose about 5 mph on the back straight of WGI due to the very small, inconsequential wing on my C6Z. On my C7Z with the rear wicker added I lose 8 mph. In the highest position I lose 12 mph. The wicker produces much more drag than the wing due to it's inefficient shape. All else being equal, drag grows exponentially with speed and therefore the amount of drag is not only growing but accelerating as you go faster(this is bad). And since drag is proportional to the square of speed, the power needed to overcome that drag is proportional to the cube of speed. So you need expend larger and larger amounts of power to overcome drag as speed increases. At that point, the shape, position, construction and angle of the airfoil becomes exceedingly important, as you can reduce the impact of drag while maintaining similar downforce simply with a more efficient design. I use a top mounted, swan neck style wing on my C6Z with large endplates and an integrated gurney channel....all of which create downforce more effectively and efficiently than a wicker/spoiler. It's always a trade-off though. Downforce, however desirable, is rarely free.
lol. Can hardly notice it.
Josh B. is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:46 PM
  #276  
AzDave47
CF Senior Member
Support Corvetteforum!
 
AzDave47's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2011
Location: AZ
Posts: 7,273
Liked 444 Times in 400 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Da Z06 View Post
Do you have some pics of this? I'm unable to visualize for whatever reason.
If you mean the 4" brake ducts, see this link that Jim did and helped me:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-new-look.html

If you want to do this, PM me your normal e-mail address and I can give you expensive info plus parts list. I have sent my info to probably 20 or more forum members.
AzDave47 is offline  
Old 09-21-2018, 04:55 PM
  #277  
HC Mechanic
CF Senior Member
 
HC Mechanic's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2009
Location: California
Posts: 1,072
Liked 29 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Josh B. View Post
Is there an easy to use epoxy, like the two-part side by side syringe thing from 3M or JB Weld? I know they make stuff for plastics and composites, I just can't figure out which kind. Or anything else that's easy to use would be helpful. Dries clear would be nice too.
Iíve got a bunch left over from doing my 102 intake mods, I got you Marine!

It took me a week or two of working with the epoxy to figure out how to mix and apply very neatly so the touch up requirement is minimal to none. Once youíre all set Iíll drive out and help you do it, or I can handle that portion all together for you. Youíre the master when it comes to the fab work, YOU GOT THIS! Get to cutting Brother!
HC Mechanic is offline  
The following users liked this post: HC Mechanic
Josh B. (09-21-2018)
Old 09-23-2018, 07:56 PM
  #278  
Josh B.
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Josh B.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2014
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 2,540
Liked 506 Times in 377 Posts
Default

After chatting with Jayyyw and now Carlos (Da Z06), we are working out how much timing advance to put in the engine. Here is what I am seeing on desktop dyno 5, take the estimated hp figures at face value. They've been accurate for me in the past, I'm using and sharing them now only as a reference for A to B comparison of timing advance.

The old top end is completely removed. Disassembly is over.

Now for all the good stuff!






Zero Advance


+1 Advanced


Last edited by Josh B.; 09-23-2018 at 08:02 PM.
Josh B. is offline  
The following users liked this post: Josh B.
HC Mechanic (09-23-2018)
Old 09-23-2018, 08:37 PM
  #279  
JesC6Z
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2018
Posts: 549
Likes: 0
Liked 57 Times in 51 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Josh B. View Post
After chatting with Jayyyw and now Carlos (Da Z06), we are working out how much timing advance to put in the engine. Here is what I am seeing on desktop dyno 5, take the estimated hp figures at face value. They've been accurate for me in the past, I'm using and sharing them now only as a reference for A to B comparison of timing advance.

The old top end is completely removed. Disassembly is over.

Now for all the good stuff!






Zero Advance


+1 Advanced

good lawd man is that HP at the tire? 825 N/A
JesC6Z is offline  
Old 09-23-2018, 08:39 PM
  #280  
Josh B.
CF Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Josh B.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2014
Location: Libertyville, IL
Posts: 2,540
Liked 506 Times in 377 Posts
Default

Most values are crank hp, but if you look in the second red column of the DD5 screenshots you can see it as "wheel hp" too.
Josh B. is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: [Z06] Bauer Motorsports Build: WCCH All Pro 290, Solid Roller, ERL 454, 14:1 SCR


Sponsored Ads
Vendor Directory

Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: