2013 LS7 heads failing Valve Guide tolerances
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
2013 LS7 heads failing Valve Guide tolerances
Perhaps my earlier thread was not adequately titled, so I have changed it for the better. My 2008 LS7 engine had the heads and valves changed at 13500 miles because it was out of tolerance in only 13500 miles. This was handled by Chevrolet warranty and I was assured that the problem was solved. Now, 15000 miles later, I find that the replacement heads and valves are out of tolerance again. Four intake valve guide clearances are already out-of-tolerance and the other four intake valves are already at the manufacturer's limit. Here are the measurements performed by AHP: (Any measurement over .008" is considered to be out of spec. )
1 int: .008
1exh: .006
3 int: .008
3exh: .006
5 int: .009
5exh: .007
7 int: .009
7exh: .006
2 int: .010
2exh: .007
4 int: .008
4exh: .006
6 int: .009
6exh: .007
8 int: .008
8exh: .006
So the issue I raise is when, exactly, did GM fix the problem? While GM claimed to fix the problem much earlier through 100% inspection of their subvendor, the problem was still clearly present through early 2013.
Those of you with later C6Z06 cars and other LS7s, this is another wake up call.
.
1 int: .008
1exh: .006
3 int: .008
3exh: .006
5 int: .009
5exh: .007
7 int: .009
7exh: .006
2 int: .010
2exh: .007
4 int: .008
4exh: .006
6 int: .009
6exh: .007
8 int: .008
8exh: .006
So the issue I raise is when, exactly, did GM fix the problem? While GM claimed to fix the problem much earlier through 100% inspection of their subvendor, the problem was still clearly present through early 2013.
Those of you with later C6Z06 cars and other LS7s, this is another wake up call.
.
#2
They never did fix the problem.
#3
Does anyone know if the 427 Camaro's are having this issue?
Here are my measurements at 75,000 miles, interesting how 2,4,6,8 are all within spec and 1,3,5,7 are out of spec. Could this be that the one head came off of the "bad" fixture and one came off of the fixture that was set up correctly. ??????
Cyl 1 Int- .007" Exh- .010"
Cyl 3 Int- .007" Exh- Dropped Valve
Cyl 5 Int- .009" Exh- .010"
Cyl 7 Int- .007" Exh- .009"
Cyl 2 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 4 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 6 Int- .007" Exh- .008"
Cyl 8 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Here are my measurements at 75,000 miles, interesting how 2,4,6,8 are all within spec and 1,3,5,7 are out of spec. Could this be that the one head came off of the "bad" fixture and one came off of the fixture that was set up correctly. ??????
Cyl 1 Int- .007" Exh- .010"
Cyl 3 Int- .007" Exh- Dropped Valve
Cyl 5 Int- .009" Exh- .010"
Cyl 7 Int- .007" Exh- .009"
Cyl 2 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 4 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 6 Int- .007" Exh- .008"
Cyl 8 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Last edited by TriSum1; 10-17-2018 at 11:48 PM. Reason: Fixing columns of numbers.
#4
There is a specific reason the odd side is worst and I think there is more complete failures from one of those but I can’t speak intelligently on why or which one has a higher fail rate, someone on here will probably chime in and have a good answer as to why. Here’s my data from Khole@AHP on the wiggle of the core I sent back. 16k miles but the car has a good bit of mods for 4-5k of those miles and the idiots didn’t do any of the supporting valve train upgrades needed. So mine aren’t a good set to compare against.
#5
Does anyone know if the 427 Camaro's are having this issue?
Here are my measurements at 75,000 miles, interesting how 2,4,6,8 are all within spec and 1,3,5,7 are out of spec. Could this be that the one head came off of the "bad" fixture and one came off of the fixture that was set up correctly. ??????
Cyl 1 Int- .007" Exh- .010"
Cyl 3 Int- .007" Exh- Dropped Valve
Cyl 5 Int- .009" Exh- .010"
Cyl 7 Int- .007" Exh- .009"
Cyl 2 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 4 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 6 Int- .007" Exh- .008"
Cyl 8 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Here are my measurements at 75,000 miles, interesting how 2,4,6,8 are all within spec and 1,3,5,7 are out of spec. Could this be that the one head came off of the "bad" fixture and one came off of the fixture that was set up correctly. ??????
Cyl 1 Int- .007" Exh- .010"
Cyl 3 Int- .007" Exh- Dropped Valve
Cyl 5 Int- .009" Exh- .010"
Cyl 7 Int- .007" Exh- .009"
Cyl 2 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 4 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 6 Int- .007" Exh- .008"
Cyl 8 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Last edited by 73DBG; 10-18-2018 at 08:01 PM.
#6
I have read quite a bit on the subject. I do recall one of the articles that was written had said something to the effect that the company that had the contract to machine the heads had one of their fixtures set up incorrectly and the cylinder heads that came off of that fixture are the heads that cause the problems. Now, I'm not sure if this is true, but it is highly possible due to not ALL cars having the issue. Who knows!?
#7
Melting Slicks
Does anyone know if the 427 Camaro's are having this issue?
Here are my measurements at 75,000 miles, interesting how 2,4,6,8 are all within spec and 1,3,5,7 are out of spec. Could this be that the one head came off of the "bad" fixture and one came off of the fixture that was set up correctly. ??????
Cyl 1 Int- .007" Exh- .010"
Cyl 3 Int- .007" Exh- Dropped Valve
Cyl 5 Int- .009" Exh- .010"
Cyl 7 Int- .007" Exh- .009"
Cyl 2 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 4 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 6 Int- .007" Exh- .008"
Cyl 8 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Here are my measurements at 75,000 miles, interesting how 2,4,6,8 are all within spec and 1,3,5,7 are out of spec. Could this be that the one head came off of the "bad" fixture and one came off of the fixture that was set up correctly. ??????
Cyl 1 Int- .007" Exh- .010"
Cyl 3 Int- .007" Exh- Dropped Valve
Cyl 5 Int- .009" Exh- .010"
Cyl 7 Int- .007" Exh- .009"
Cyl 2 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 4 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 6 Int- .007" Exh- .008"
Cyl 8 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
#10
#11
Melting Slicks
Really? The issue with the heads is all 427 engines. Based upon anyone in hear that has dropped a valve or has valves out of spec. Mine were out of spec with only 4200 miles. The 427 in the camaro has the same problem you just don't here about as often because there are only a hand full of camaro's with a 427.
#12
Really? The issue with the heads is all 427 engines. Based upon anyone in hear that has dropped a valve or has valves out of spec. Mine were out of spec with only 4200 miles. The 427 in the camaro has the same problem you just don't here about as often because there are only a hand full of camaro's with a 427.
The following users liked this post:
Tech (10-19-2018)
#13
Melting Slicks
Look not trying to be a D**k but do you really think it only effected some and not others? I doubt that very much. The ones you don't hear about are the ones where people have never checked the valves. Is it possible to have valves out of spec and not drop a valve, yes absolutely. Just becuase you don't drop a valve dosen't mean they are in spec. Any 427 should be at the very least be checked.
#14
Look not trying to be a D**k but do you really think it only effected some and not others? I doubt that very much. The ones you don't hear about are the ones where people have never checked the valves. Is it possible to have valves out of spec and not drop a valve, yes absolutely. Just becuase you don't drop a valve dosen't mean they are in spec. Any 427 should be at the very least be checked.
But it is possible to have multiple machines performing a task and one, (or more), to be programmed incorrectly causing an issue with certain pieces. Just saying....
We will never know for sure, but I would think that if EVERY head had the issue it would be a much bigger problem than it is.
Now the coating on the valve could be a whole other issue which I haven't researched.
#15
Team Owner
Does anyone know if the 427 Camaro's are having this issue?
Here are my measurements at 75,000 miles, interesting how 2,4,6,8 are all within spec and 1,3,5,7 are out of spec. Could this be that the one head came off of the "bad" fixture and one came off of the fixture that was set up correctly. ??????
Cyl 1 Int- .007" Exh- .010"
Cyl 3 Int- .007" Exh- Dropped Valve
Cyl 5 Int- .009" Exh- .010"
Cyl 7 Int- .007" Exh- .009"
Cyl 2 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 4 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 6 Int- .007" Exh- .008"
Cyl 8 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Here are my measurements at 75,000 miles, interesting how 2,4,6,8 are all within spec and 1,3,5,7 are out of spec. Could this be that the one head came off of the "bad" fixture and one came off of the fixture that was set up correctly. ??????
Cyl 1 Int- .007" Exh- .010"
Cyl 3 Int- .007" Exh- Dropped Valve
Cyl 5 Int- .009" Exh- .010"
Cyl 7 Int- .007" Exh- .009"
Cyl 2 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 4 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
Cyl 6 Int- .007" Exh- .008"
Cyl 8 Int- .006" Exh- .007"
I completely agree with you.
But it is possible to have multiple machines performing a task and one, (or more), to be programmed incorrectly causing an issue with certain pieces. Just saying....
We will never know for sure, but I would think that if EVERY head had the issue it would be a much bigger problem than it is.
Now the coating on the valve could be a whole other issue which I haven't researched.
But it is possible to have multiple machines performing a task and one, (or more), to be programmed incorrectly causing an issue with certain pieces. Just saying....
We will never know for sure, but I would think that if EVERY head had the issue it would be a much bigger problem than it is.
Now the coating on the valve could be a whole other issue which I haven't researched.
Valve coating on the Ti intake is definitely a thing. GM told Del West "thanks, but no thanks" during C6 production years on the micro polishing step for the intake stem. Apparently, GM changed their stance on this for the C7 cars running Ti intakes. Hmmm...I wonder why?
Last edited by MTPZ06; 10-18-2018 at 02:19 PM.
#16
Instructor
I have researched this problem extensively and my 2011 currently has the heads off to do a repair. The one thing I can say with certainty is there is not one single problem causing the rapid wear on the guides and other failures causing the destruction of the engine, there have been a bunch of problems which is why there is no single magic bullet fix which is what I think a lot of people are expecting. The best and most promising repairs are either American Heritage Performance or Late Model Throttle which have both taken the time to have Moldstar 90 guides made for them. This appears to be a solution to the wear problem.
Known problems:
Machine problems on some heads
Titanium valves with too coarse of a finish on the valve stems
Exhaust valves with a strength problem so GM changed the wall thickness
Rocker arm bearing problems
Crappy pushrods
Failing camshafts probably due to failing valve springs
Known problems:
Machine problems on some heads
Titanium valves with too coarse of a finish on the valve stems
Exhaust valves with a strength problem so GM changed the wall thickness
Rocker arm bearing problems
Crappy pushrods
Failing camshafts probably due to failing valve springs
Last edited by G8Pumpkin; 10-18-2018 at 04:36 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Z.06 (10-18-2018)
#17
I have researched this problem extensively and my 2011 currently has the heads off to do a repair. The one thing I can say with certainty is there is not one single problem causing the rapid wear on the guides and other failures causing the destruction of the engine, there have been a bunch of problems which is why there is no single magic bullet fix which is what I think a lot of people are expecting. The best and most promising repairs are either American Heritage Performance or Late Model Throttle which have both taken the time to have Moldstar 90 guides made for them. This appears to be a solution to the wear problem.
Known problems:
Machine problems on some heads
Titanium valves with too coarse of a finish on the valve stems
Exhaust valves with a strength problem so GM changed the wall thickness
Rocker arm bearing problems
Crappy pushrods
Failing camshafts probably due to failing valve springs
Known problems:
Machine problems on some heads
Titanium valves with too coarse of a finish on the valve stems
Exhaust valves with a strength problem so GM changed the wall thickness
Rocker arm bearing problems
Crappy pushrods
Failing camshafts probably due to failing valve springs
The proper solution is to throw almost everything from GM in the garbage.
#18
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have read quite a bit on the subject. I do recall one of the articles that was written had said something to the effect that the company that had the contract to machine the heads had one of their fixtures set up incorrectly and the cylinder heads that came off of that fixture are the heads that cause the problems. Now, I'm not sure if this is true, but it is highly possible due to not ALL cars having the issue. Who knows!?