Stock Ti or steel forged rods for rebuild
12-29-2018, 04:49 PM
#1
Stock Ti or steel forged rods for rebuild
So I purchased a set of updated Ti rods from a reputable and good seller (not my pic above but that is the dimple in the updated rods). Currently my car is down for a rebuild and I am a little lost on what to do.
I have:
- Stock LS7 block/sleeves in good condition that will be re-sleeved with Darton sleeves
- Stock LS7 crank needs journals polished
- Stock heads redone by AI finished @ 64CC
- Stock Ti rods that I bought with the dimples on the big ends that will be coated by Calico
- Diamond pistons (not specifically selected YET but this is what I will use)
Goal is to put the motor back together and run 10.2-10.5@134-136 NA (550-570 rwhp) until I throw a blower on it. Once I throw the blower on it my goals then are 9.4-9.6@145-150 (800-850 rwhp). I have the supporting drive-train mods with a BC2 and a RPM LVL6 T56 just need to nail this down.
Should I stick with the stock crank and rods with Diamond pistons? I do not plan on more than 900 rwhp and most likely would stay around 800 rwhp with quality fuel and tune. At first I was very against switching rods because of weight but now since I want to go boosted I am at a crossroads. Plus reading about needing to get the split bushings swapped out and what not is another additional cost/question of necessity.
Another point was changing the stoke or something about a bad thrust angle when switching rods. Would I be better off selling my crank, two sets of rods, pistons and block which then would allow me to buy a 5.3 block to have sleeved with a forged crank/rods and the Diamond pistons?
Thanks in advance for any advice. I haven't ever had to build/plan a build on an engine before and this has been very confusing/frustrating to pick the right path...
Last edited by zaquhree; 12-29-2018 at 04:51 PM.
12-29-2018, 05:10 PM
#2
Drifting
I went forged CP pistons with stock crank and rods on my boosted LS7. I haven’t had any issues in over two years at 837whp, but if I did it again, I would probably just throw forged rods in there in order to avoid the issue many are have with Ti rods wearing on the big end.
12-29-2018, 07:50 PM
#3
I went forged CP pistons with stock crank and rods on my boosted LS7. I haven’t had any issues in over two years at 837whp, but if I did it again, I would probably just throw forged rods in there in order to avoid the issue many are have with Ti rods wearing on the big end.
did you have your rods re-coated by calico as well? according to a few reputable sources the rods are fine as long as they're not marred and are re-coated. from what I have read most failures are from people who did not re-coat the rods. glad to hear you're having no issues after that long
12-29-2018, 09:52 PM
#5
These are some of the rods I bought. If anyone could look at those scuffs/marking and comment if it's something I should be concerned about. It's almost like a black scuff mark on some of the cheeks. Those marks can not be felt by my finger nail.
Last edited by zaquhree; 12-29-2018 at 09:59 PM.
12-30-2018, 12:31 AM
#6
Race Director
Those scuff marks look much like mine that came out when I went with a forged bottom end. I had 7-8 PPM of Ti in the oil samples the past two times and also had a few low pressure oil excursions before I had the bottom end done. I would be interested in selling my Ti rods, expecting they would need Calico coating to be used again. My big end bearings were somewhat scuffed but not really bad. I have not disassembled my oil pump to see if there were issues there. While the heads were off they went back to WCCH after 12K miles on the upper end mods and all looked good.
12-30-2018, 11:11 AM
#8
12-30-2018, 11:16 AM
#10
Neither was I, and if I had known of this, I would have had my factory rods recoated as a standard procedure when I had my OEM short block refreshed last time.
No idea how the Calico coating holds up in the long run as no one has put any significant miles on a car after having them done, to the best of my knowledge.
No idea how the Calico coating holds up in the long run as no one has put any significant miles on a car after having them done, to the best of my knowledge.
12-30-2018, 01:00 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Huge fan of the stock rods...however, if you're building for boost and the bottom end is already apart...why not run an aftermarket to alleviate any possible concerns in the future? An aftermarket forged rod its a really good investment and solid peace of mind.
12-30-2018, 01:50 PM
#13
So I purchased a set of updated Ti rods from a reputable and good seller (not my pic above but that is the dimple in the updated rods). Currently my car is down for a rebuild and I am a little lost on what to do.
I have:
- Stock LS7 block/sleeves in good condition that will be re-sleeved with Darton sleeves
- Stock LS7 crank needs journals polished
- Stock heads redone by AI finished @ 64CC
- Stock Ti rods that I bought with the dimples on the big ends that will be coated by Calico
- Diamond pistons (not specifically selected YET but this is what I will use)
Goal is to put the motor back together and run 10.2-10.5@134-136 NA (550-570 rwhp) until I throw a blower on it. Once I throw the blower on it my goals then are 9.4-9.6@145-150 (800-850 rwhp). I have the supporting drive-train mods with a BC2 and a RPM LVL6 T56 just need to nail this down.
Should I stick with the stock crank and rods with Diamond pistons? I do not plan on more than 900 rwhp and most likely would stay around 800 rwhp with quality fuel and tune. At first I was very against switching rods because of weight but now since I want to go boosted I am at a crossroads. Plus reading about needing to get the split bushings swapped out and what not is another additional cost/question of necessity.
Another point was changing the stoke or something about a bad thrust angle when switching rods. Would I be better off selling my crank, two sets of rods, pistons and block which then would allow me to buy a 5.3 block to have sleeved with a forged crank/rods and the Diamond pistons?
Thanks in advance for any advice. I haven't ever had to build/plan a build on an engine before and this has been very confusing/frustrating to pick the right path...
12-30-2018, 02:01 PM
#14
Team Owner
You either build a blower motor, or a NA motor. Saying you want to run low 10s NA then add a blower, means different pistons, different gaps, different clearances, etc if you want it done correctly. Not even taking into account compresison/etc.
Agreed with Michael D. Sell it all, go with a sleeved 5.3 built for boost. Any advantage for the Ti rods are far far outweighed in by the disadvantages on a blower motor. On an all out NA build getting that extra 7-10hp is great, and 590 to 600 is cool, but on a 850+ car, with a blower, the blower is going to set the power, and just pulley done if you need another 20-30rwhp.
Agreed with Michael D. Sell it all, go with a sleeved 5.3 built for boost. Any advantage for the Ti rods are far far outweighed in by the disadvantages on a blower motor. On an all out NA build getting that extra 7-10hp is great, and 590 to 600 is cool, but on a 850+ car, with a blower, the blower is going to set the power, and just pulley done if you need another 20-30rwhp.
12-30-2018, 03:52 PM
#15
Based on your RWHP goals and the natural tendency to want "more" after you get used to what you have........I'd sell everything and go with the re-worked 5.3 option, or just get an aftermarket AL block. I would not increase stroke without increasing rod length, but you will not improve rod angle enough to matter without using a tall deck block. I'd stick with the 4.0" stroke and standard block height. Do yourself a favor and call HPR.
You either build a blower motor, or a NA motor. Saying you want to run low 10s NA then add a blower, means different pistons, different gaps, different clearances, etc if you want it done correctly. Not even taking into account compresison/etc.
Agreed with Michael D. Sell it all, go with a sleeved 5.3 built for boost. Any advantage for the Ti rods are far far outweighed in by the disadvantages on a blower motor. On an all out NA build getting that extra 7-10hp is great, and 590 to 600 is cool, but on a 850+ car, with a blower, the blower is going to set the power, and just pulley done if you need another 20-30rwhp.
Agreed with Michael D. Sell it all, go with a sleeved 5.3 built for boost. Any advantage for the Ti rods are far far outweighed in by the disadvantages on a blower motor. On an all out NA build getting that extra 7-10hp is great, and 590 to 600 is cool, but on a 850+ car, with a blower, the blower is going to set the power, and just pulley done if you need another 20-30rwhp.
One of my quotes was $4,800 with sleeving stock block with diamond pistons and the stock crank/rods. Is it doable to stay around there with selling my stock rods/crank/block? Found a gen 4 5.3 block for around $150. Thanks for the input
Last edited by zaquhree; 12-30-2018 at 03:57 PM.
12-30-2018, 08:40 PM
#17
Team Owner
Except not really. People think they can, attempt to, and realize it cost 2-3x what they planned. 850rwhp dyno pull, or reliable 850rwhp are worlds apart.
12-30-2018, 08:58 PM
#18
So far I've had two cars make between 700-800rwhp with no failures and I hope this little extra bump doesn't change that. Using a few months NA should help me work all the kinks out for an easy transition from NA to forced induction
12-30-2018, 10:53 PM
#20
I just went down this road not long ago, made some mistakes in choosing the wrong shop and that cost me an extra 7k in the end. I used the factory Ti rods had the crank polished and honed and balanced with a torque plate. I used Ractec forged pistons (4.130) and replaced all the bearing with Clevite coated and ARP fasteners are everywhere possible. I already had the blower and my heads were in the works at AHP when I got into the bottom end. This was in the last 3 months I called and emailed with Callico about re-coating the rods and they said they no longer do it. Maybe things have changed but there’s a thread on here where I’ve pasted the emails from their sales dept about coating the rods. If I was planning from zero I’d go the route these guys are suggesting. Start with a block built for boost. I wasn’t in that position and made the best with what I had when I ran into issues. I know I wouldn’t start an N/A build to boost later on, choose a side and go with it. If I could have seen the future I would have either went with different heads or different specs on the heads for 600+ NA and sold my blower or sold my block and picked up one built for boost. All the forged pistons are good I choose Racetec because they have a forged piston specifically for the Ti rods shorter length. Anyway good luck man! My rebuild was a ******* nightmare and it cost me 7k that was a complete waste, had I burned that 7k and got a video posted to YouTube I would have got more out of it than giving it to idiots you cost me even more money in the end. I wish that on nobody.