1Paladin1

Good day all,

Thought to do my introduction here and set the scene for the discussion from the start (a 2 in 1 thread). Just registered, been reading the forum for some time but all planets are aligned now.

I will be relocating to the US-Houston with the family from Europe for work purposes end of March. Petrolhead to the bone, trackday-enthousiast, and happy owner of a heavily modified 911TT (800whp), a Vortech Supercharged B7 RS4 Avant (620 whp), playing with a Radical (210 whp) on track and awaiting at some point hopefully end of this year / early 2020 an Ultima (different story will elaborate on this later). I will be selling my 2 beloved cars + the wife's car (Radical already gone) prior to relocation as the importation process in the US doesn't worth the hassle and effort + they sell at a better price (but cost more to buy) in Europe. Houston seems to have a decent Motorsport scene with tracks like the MSR so great!

I have a decent understand of tuning and modding for a number of years now (even though I dont even wash my cars) and I did fiddle a lot over the last 3 years with my RS4 as it has been my first V8 car and the first one to really play with a powerful s/c. All my previous performance cars had the exhaust gases pushing and rotating the turbo impeller. So without further blah blah I am seriously considering a Z06 to turn into a decent modded car that can go happily around a track and double it as a daily driver. Wife will be getting something heavy and way less noisy for the family so I don't have to compromise on how the car will end up (even though some pneumatically operated exhaust valves wouldn't hurt anyone). I did consider some other coupes as well in the overall comparison (M4, F-Type, Mustang, Camaro, etc) and didnt want to go again for a 911 (already spent about 9 years with it) so I do think its a one-way street to play around with a Z06.

I think I would be up for a relatively low millage car 2006-2008 (they are a bit more lightweight) with a full/comprehensive service history and hopefully fixed heads - valve guides to start the modding process. My project plan as I have it in my head would be:

1. Stock Z06 - Add a S/C (vortech or procharger) as I really like the way the power is delivered (dont want too much torque to break traction down low) with a power goal anywhere between 600-700 whp. Don't want to mess with cams, etc etc. The obvious 102mm throttle body with a decent intake or inlet manifold and a full exhaust would probably get me where I think I want to go.
2. Suspension (not sure which one works for the Z06 better. I have experience with Ohlins, KW clubsport and JRZ), but it has to be at least 3-way adjustable, allow for some squat of the car for better traction, and then the usual sway bars, half cage, cross links, etc etc
3. Getting some decent lightweight wheels/tyres (not sure about the acceptable width of the front/rear tyres without rubbing), seats
4. I believe the oil sump needs changing to something with fins?

Is the engine and transmission able to take the occasional track beating? what is the max torque the transmission is able to withstand?I would like to keep the car looking nicely so I dont intend to do much in the appearence side other than maybe a proper Aero foil and a front splitter

...would you advise for or against a car that already has forced induction and other mods or start with stock and build upon it with me knowing exactly what goes where?

Any other suggestions and opinions would be greatly appreciated! I have already started the search for the car as I will be coming for a week end of Feb and potentially be able to close the deal. Again the car will be modded to be driven on the road as well (will allow for some suspension travel :p)

thanks

Unreal

No need to touch intake or TB. Stock will make 1100+ with ease. Your issue is going to be cooling. Hard to keep a blown c6z cool on street let alone the track. Invest heavily into the cooling system. Brakes and clutch will also need work.

Landru

Welcome to the forum, and, USA.
There's a wealth of info re these wonderful, powerful NA vehicles. Many days worth of reading right here.

FWIW owned my C6 Z06 for 10 years, recently had heads rebuilt, a baby cam & tune at 62K making ~485 RWH.
IF I needed more power an intake, headers & retune would be required.
While not necessarily cheap to do those last 3 it would be easy to get.
However I don't track/race, thing makes plenty of power for my needs as-is.
Obviously YMMV coming from other HP marques.

LS7 can be modded any way one choses, NA w/ H/C//I and/or turbo/SC -- all make beaucoup power.
Only real question is how much $'s available for build to attain desired results, 1st.
2nd is reliability; which, comes into play w/ any other modified 'race' car.

BTTT to members who modded & their input.

LawrenceFromTorrance

Seems to me that a super charger will add more torque down low which is what you didn't want. True it's the easiest way to add power but since there's boost even at low RPM the torque comes on sooner than a turbo or a cam. I could be wrong but I don't think so
Welcome to the USA!

MTPZ06

Welcome to the forum! Keep the C6Z NA in my opinion if you're looking to make it a track beast. You appear to like FI cars though...so maybe just start with a C6 ZR1 and be done with it.

Smdusaf

You should really look into a Camaro with a 1LE package preferably ZL1 that way you have back seats if you get in a jam and have to move kiddos around and they have great handling

Mordeth

- Scrap this idea for a track car. They overheat rapidly, break regularly and are a bitch to maintain on a road course. So drop this idea and never think of it again if you are at all serious about tracking the car. 550 - 600 whp naturally aspirated is ideal maximum for a car that will be beat on on a race track, and it is trivially easy with the right cam and setup to get the power band exactly where you want it (4k-7k). With a blower and after about 600whp your reliability goes WAY down, your heat management becomes an impossible obsession and you will be slower anyhow. Once in a while some idiot with a blown LS7 shows up at the track. They lose, overheat, lose again, break and then never come back.


- LG GT2 are a good, adjustable coilover that work well on the street and track. LG G1 sways with their endlinks. Never mind a "half cage". It is the A pillar that is weak on C6Z, not the B pillar. You either cage it or you don't. Add a harness bar for a harness and good seats. Add an AMT camber kit so your eccentrics don't slip on track. And when you are ready to step up to the big leagues and go all out, add AMT Spherical bearings in the control arms.


- You will want 18' wheels on all four corners. I recommend Finspeed Wheels from forum vendor and racer AMT Motorsports or Signature Wheels from forum vendor. These are both top notch, light weight, forged track wheels, that also look good. The seats in the C6Z suck for the track. They don't provide proper support, they are slippery and in general are horrible and disgusting for a track car. Sparco Evo or Sparco Ergo with AMT seat mounts fit perfectly and work well. But you will sacrifice comfort.


- Nevermind fins, or whatever you mean. For 2006-2008 Z06 the biggest issue is capacity. The 8 quarts is simply insufficient on the track when the car is pushed hard on slicks or R-compounds. For that you pull out the dry sump tank and send it to Lingenfelter. For around $250 they will weld on an additional section that adds ~3 more quarts and it bolts right back in perfectly. For 2009+ Z06 they already have the added capacity. And when the tank is out you purchase the AVIAID dry sump tank baffle. This will help keep the oil at the bottom of the tank. It also helps to stabilize the oil in the tank and deaerate. And finally, when your oil pan gasket starts to leak (and it will), when you pull the pan to replace the gasket you should install the Improved Racing pan baffle. This helps with scavenging of the oil from the pan as it keeps the oil near the pickup tube. You also add a Mighty Mouse "mild" catch can or you will be sucking oil into the intake track when the motor is spun to 7k RPMS incessantly on a race track. These 4 things are how you modify the LS7 dry sump to accommodate track use. I will list them again so there is no confusion:

1) Lingenfelter expanded tank
2) AVIAID dry sump tank baffle
3) Improved Racing oil pan baffle
4) Mighty Mouse "mild" catch can


The alternative is to ditch the entire system and go with a proper dry sump from Dailey or ARE.


The transmission is not the weak spot. It can hold the power. It is the clutch that will give out first and need replacing. Mantic 9000 twin cerametallic. Engine is semi-reliable (as reliable as any engine can be if raced) if you address the heads (priority #1 - go with AHP and MS90 guides), the oiling system and the oil cooling, and make sure you have a proper tune free of detonation and pre-ignition, or bye-bye to cylinder/piston #7. The stock oil cooling is inferior (like most cars) once a C6Z is put on a track and driven hard. Improved Racing has a great kit to address this. Things that will break because they weren't designed for the track include (but not limited to): Power steering pump (buy Turn One once yours ***** the bed), alternator (factory replacement, but plan to replace again), harmonic balancer (Innovators West), shifter (MGW), starter (OEM replacement and wrap with heat shield). I can make this list arbitrarily longer if I feel like it, but there is a good start.

You will also need to address the brakes as the stock rotors and pads aren't up to the task for the track. Buy DBA 5000 front rotors and DBA 4000 rear. Combine with Carbotech XP12 front and XP8 rear. Get all of this from Ken at KNS (forum vendor and racer). Mark at AMT also has a superior rotor for us. Once the OEM calipers give out in about a year or two then ditch the whole system and go with AP Racing.

You will also need better tires. Go with NT01. They are a 100tw track tire that come in OEM sizes and take alot of heat cycles. Can also be driven on the street. Get them from Discount Tire Direct (they will price match anyone, even ebay).

Mr. Gizmo

2009 has lots of upgrades to the axle half shafts , oil sump and transmission.

Mild cam and address the heads. I would not supercharge. I went from a stock c6z to the supercharged c7z and much prefer NA.

1Paladin1

Thank you very much. It really depends on the supercharger type. The centrifugal type of s/c I have on my car and the one I WAS planning to use on the Z06 would build boost as the revs go up so the torque input down low would be insignificant compared to a roots or twin-screw where you get lots of torque down low.

Damn Good Straight Forward Information from Great Experience (its you in the avatar right?)!!! I think i am in the 6th or 7th time I am re-reading what you wrote. I think the above sums up the framework of track oriented tuning. As I said before I am not familiar at all with the brand and specific model and the issues it has, thus the visit on this forum. Really good info on the oil sump overall (911 has a built in dry sump, track it all you want never has any issues, same applies for the audi again build in baffles to reduce the oil sloshing effect). Suspension-wheels-car setup it seems you have it all figured out so no need to re-invent the wheel here (will be asking for some proper alignment values) and yes all the other parts you mentioned that will probably fail with track use are all acceptable. The idea is to build everything up from the very start and get over with it. Some minor clarifications

- The 4 items for the modification of the dry sump are equally applicable to the 2009 onward models or just to 2006-2008? I am guessing only item 1 is not applicable from 2009 onwards or I didnt understand correctly?
- Wheels you said 18 all around..what offset are you using and what is the optimum track width/profile tyres for back/front?
- For Clutch I am usually a sachs twin carbon plate fan (have used it in all high hp applications so far and its very decent for road use. 911 has about 1120 NM of torque approx 830 lbf.ft) never had an issue after extensive number of track miles. Is the one you recommend okish for road use?

Last but not least I just wanted to briefly explain how I keep the audi s/c V8 cooled down. as you are probably aware the 4.2 V8 of the rs4 is a N/A engine. The s/c is an addition to it (doesnt comes as standards factory). The whole kit is using a charge cooler (i.e. air to fluid intercooler) which is very efficient due to the fluid's capacity (I am using G12) to contain heat. Because of the hard driving I wanted extra protection with intake temps so I installed a parallel system after some modifications called killer chiller (I think it known in the US). That allows me to use my A/C system to cool the charge cooler fluid maintaining an extremely low (close to freezing temps) of intake air. I kinda thought I could apply the same principle on the Z06. I searched and saw that only Air to Air I/C exist for the blown Z06 kits, but ... I havent always picked the conventional solutions. Only with that in mind I considered FI, otherwise the heat generated does not worth it at all.

and the million $ question. Which shop do we trust as a community in the Houston Area for maintenance and tuning???

If you are ok with this I will bother you with a few PMs on certain details.

Appreciate the input from experience. It seems a 2009 is a good base to build up, not that earlier years will be bad either. Many thanks on this.

Mordeth

Correct, that is me in my car that I built and race. If you have the time, search my profile for previous posts going back as far as you like and you will find as much information as you feel like reading regarding putting our cars on a race track.

Correct.

Here is what I run:
18 x 11 Finspeed F10 (offset +38) × 2 w/ knurled bead
18 x 13 Finspeed F10 (offset +56) × 2 w/ knurled bead
These are new and will be on Hoosier R7 315/30ZR18 (front) and Hoosier R7 345/35/18 (rear)

and

18 x 11 Signature SV502 18x11 (offset +38) x 2 w/ knurled bead
18 x 12.5 Signature SV502 (offset +50) x 2 w/ knurled bead
These are on Hoosier R7 295/30ZR18 (front) and335/30ZR18 (rear)

and

OEM Speedline wheels with NT01s in OEM sizes. Which are Front: 275/35-18 and Rear: 325/30-19

All of these work great and look good doing so.

Pics as proof of this claim:

Signature on Hoosiers:




OEM Speedlines on NT01:




On the track at speed kicking some Viper ***:






I recommend the Mantic 9000 twin cerametallic. It is lightweight, holds the power, engagement is perfect and has great street manners. It is what I use, and my car is a dedicated race car. Money is no object for me and if I didn't like the Mantic I would have already ripped it out in favor of something else. Get it from Doug or Chris at ECS (East Coast Supercharging). They have a nice kit that includes a new slave and a remote bleeder. For an all out race clutch go Quartermaster, but you will hate the street and hate trying to get the car on a trailer.

Ditch this idea and never bring it up again.

Late Model Racecraft (LMR)

Kurt Decker / LSX Performance Dyno TuningI

MTI

or make the 2 hour drive to Pat Guerra in Victoria (well worth it)

or 4 hours to G-Speed in Cresson

or 4 hours to LG in Anna

I've helped alot of guys on these forums put their C6Zs on the track and I'm happy to help you. Feel free to PM, email (agnick5@yahoo.com). Also happy to text or chat on the phone if that is helpful. My name is Anthony, and I'm a racer and driving instructor in the NorthEast.

They are all good to build up. Find one that you like, preferably with the heads sorted and go. I myself prefer the T56 trans in the 2006-2008 over the T6060 in the 2009+. And the tank needs to come out either way to install the AVIAID baffle/insert so no big deal to add the expanded Lingenfelter tank. You can simply buy one already modified from Lingenfelter and send them your core. But again, they are all good years with no major changes worth noting, as everything gets modified/upgraded anyhow.

1Paladin1

What a beauty your car is!!! Love the inverted aero!! Seems its the latest trend in generation of downforce. Do you also use LG GT2 suspension? what are your spring rates? I see the FL wheel slightly elevated?
Can you actually do corner balancing in the car by relocating items to bring the CoG a bit lower (its already low) and a bit closer to the centre of the car?

I ll check your previous posts..I guess everything should be there!

Mordeth

I'm on LG G2s. They are non-adjustable but use a superior Bilstein inverted shock. I don't need the adjustability as LG already valves them for our car/suspension/use. My springs are Hyperco, 700lb front and 650lb rear. The front left was slightly elevated in that pic on the track because I was taking a corner at 100mph+ and pulling probably close to 2gs, so the weight transfers to the right. If I wasn't on coilovers with stiff springs and huge sways I would be on two wheels.




Yes you can corner balance by this method. Last year I ran 100lb of lead ballast bolted down to the passenger footwell to meet weight requirements for my racing class and to help with corner balancing. I have pics of this I can share if you want. It is simple and easy. But it isn't absolutely necessary and the car can be corner balanced easily without the ballast as the weight distribution is already very good from the factory.


Got your PM. Will reply later when I get home from work. Damn snow storm up here (again) is screwing everything up.

MTPZ06

OP, you're in good hands with Anthony...if a properly set up track is what you're after, he wont steer you wrong.

Forgot to mention that if you do want an FI car, as I stated previously, I would look at the C6 ZR1. The LS9 (ZR1) is built for boost with its forged internals, whereas the LS7 (Z06) wasn't intended to be FI (hypereutectic pistons, thin cylinder sleeves, etc.). Now having said that, making that ZR1 into a dedicated (or primary use) track car is still going to require some modifications for cooling. In my opinion, TIKT makes some of the best (function and looks) products for cooling a C6 ZR1 track car.

http://tikt.de/tuning/corvette/c6
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...etty-mean.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-splitter.html

Z06Kevin

One of my new years resolution's is to see Anthony kicking butt on the track this year. Looking forward to keeping that resolution for sure.

1Paladin1

Very nice links! Thank you! I don't like the twin screw type of S/C. Had a tuned C63 amg with a twin screw and it was good onky for.burning rubber and didn't enjoy it as much as I enjoyed the centrifugal s/c power delivery. If I was going a bit ballistic I would consider building an RHS block probably for better internals cooling The general cooling process requires some research either way. A vortech V3 Si with anything between 4 to 6 pounds of boost generates no heat if combined with a proper intercooler...but I guess serious tuning shops must have looked into this already...nevetheless it's very interesting to dig deeper into it.

1Paladin1

For sure Anthony's credentials exceed any anticipated expectation! (talk about being lucky here). I have looked for the ZR1 option and i am kinda of biased against the type of s/c they are using (again for the ZR1 how do they achieve greater cooling for track use?). IF i was to use an s/c I would go for a vortech or a procharger but for all the obvious reasons of cooling etc it seems that a N/A mod setup will be preferential.

I checked the TIKT...nice!..but I would probably be better off searching in the US market for a US car.

Money not being an issue for the price of these cars, but how does a C6 Z06 compares to a C7 Z06 in terms of functionality, modding and track reliability. are they even comparable?

73DBG

I’d take Anthony’s info to the bank man....they’ll cash that check all day long! I have nothing to add on road course information but I can tell you about an LS7 with a centri blower......they make stupid power bro! I’ve got the smallest centri procharger makes with heads(AHP) blower cam, headers/xpipe exhaust and on pump 93/meth it’s making 840whp.....absolutely worst possible car you’d want on a road course.....now if you wanna 60 rolls 1000cc street bikes it’s perfect lol. I love the C6 ZR1 but it would be my choice for a road race car either, it’s way more money than a clean low miles ZO6 with the money saved it could buy all those expensive parts Anthony has! It’s also be a damn shame to crash a low miles ZR1 in my opinion but it’s just an opinion. The 2006 Z is the lightest one from the factory but the better oiling and transmission change on the 09+ might be better than saving on the weight, Anthony could give better guidance on that. Take the centri blower idea outta your head if road racing is the end use for this ZO6 you might get.....now if you decide racing bikes and making “Mexico” trips to find good rolls the centri is exactly what you want....but if that’s the plan there’s better/safer blocks to start with than the LS7 if you know for a fact boost is coming.

1Paladin1

I know the feeling my friend! I am running twin 3076 turbos on my 911 (which i use high boost like 5% of the time only on pulls like that through a boost controller). for twisties and track 1,3 bar is what I use. The Z06 is the way forward. I understand that from 2008 actually they changed the transmission and from 2009 increased the oil capacity. a clean Z06 example with less that 35k miles around the 30-35 mark is the best option to allow me for another 15-20k for add ons.

Had an interesting chat today with a shop I know in NY and their initial recommendation is again going for N/A mod for track use (as you guys said), target around 600whp with MSD intake, Cam Motion cams 244i/258e, 660/660 113+3, MSD intake with a 102 NW TB, head work (guides/valves) with a touch on slightly higher compression and CNC for the air flow...

Which cold air intake and headers/exhaust work best for the LS7? diameter wise?..for sure X-pipe. (will I be shot or stopped by the police in texas if I run catless on the road??).

what do you think about the above spec provided?

MTPZ06

I agree that the NA power of the LS7 is better suited for the track. I only mentioned the C6 ZR1 because you appear to have a penchant for FI vehicles. I like and appreciate both NA and FI, and I've owned both...so I can appreciate both sides of the equation.

As for the TIKT stuff...you can equip your US sourced C6 ZR1 with their components. One of those links I posted was to a Katech ZR1 build with the TIKT products that they speak very highly of. They use (among other components) re-engineered/additional heat exchangers in their newly opened up "cheeks" in the front fascia. This has been a proven fix for heavily tracked C7 Z06 vehicles (LG to name one vendor), and clearly what GM did to improve the cooling capacity in the new C7 ZR1.

If a C6 Z06 is what you want...you will thoroughly enjoy the car. My recommendation...keep it NA for your purposes.

73DBG

Cam Motion is putting out a bad *** product! They custom spec’d my blower cam and it’s literally the mod that makes everything else work amazing in my build! I used the 8620 option for the core, .660/.660 is a good amount of lift I had them keep mine just under .650 the first spec came out a little higher than I wanted. Just make sure if that’s the lift your going with have the supporting mods to handle it. Can’t comment on the Intake/TB boosted LS7 guys keep the factory set up or have it ported, or use a billet set up. The aftermarket plastic ones don’t do very well under boost. Unfortunately I only have straight line C6z money at the moment.....hopefully at some point I’ll have road race C6z money!!! Definitely looks like the more fun use of the car.....but that **** is 💰💰💰.