MSD porting choices
03-06-2019, 02:08 PM
#41
Racer
Thread Starter
Plenty of info out there. I fell into the Mamo wonderland before more results were made public. Luckily, I sold mine for a very small loss.
The MSD is pretty much as good as it gets, out of the box. It needs a small amount of work and it's ready to go. Don't over pay someone to make it "marginally" better. At the end of the day, you're still going to deal with shitty seals, retightening of bolts, loosening nuts, stripping threads; no matter who ports it.
The MSD is pretty much as good as it gets, out of the box. It needs a small amount of work and it's ready to go. Don't over pay someone to make it "marginally" better. At the end of the day, you're still going to deal with shitty seals, retightening of bolts, loosening nuts, stripping threads; no matter who ports it.
03-06-2019, 04:09 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
I was concerned about that, but I've talked with multiple tuners and they assert that if it is installed properly (torqued, loctite) they have seen no issues. I think maybe a few sloppy installs have given rise to these rumors. Loosening bolts can happen anywhere... I don't see how the intake itself it to blame for that.
03-06-2019, 06:57 PM
#43
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
Lot of trolls on this thread for some reason.
I have had an MSD intake on my LS7 almost longer than anyone here. I say that because I installed mine in August of 2015 right after they were introduced. That manifold has been in service for three and a half years and no parts have fallen into the engine. The nuts are self-locking and, for extra insurance, they can be installed with a thread locking compound. Personally, I prefer Locktite's new line of gel-based thread lockers.
I have had an MSD intake on my LS7 almost longer than anyone here. I say that because I installed mine in August of 2015 right after they were introduced. That manifold has been in service for three and a half years and no parts have fallen into the engine. The nuts are self-locking and, for extra insurance, they can be installed with a thread locking compound. Personally, I prefer Locktite's new line of gel-based thread lockers.
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LS1Steve (03-06-2019)
03-06-2019, 07:03 PM
#44
Drifting
Go on the Z06 FB page, there are MSD complaints. Luckily mine would not loosen much. Of course I tightened them down beyond what was instructed lol. We all need to go Hi-Ram.
03-06-2019, 07:15 PM
#45
Pro
Plenty of info out there. I fell into the Mamo wonderland before more results were made public. Luckily, I sold mine for a very small loss.
The MSD is pretty much as good as it gets, out of the box. It needs a small amount of work and it's ready to go. Don't over pay someone to make it "marginally" better. At the end of the day, you're still going to deal with shitty seals, retightening of bolts, loosening nuts, stripping threads; no matter who ports it.
The MSD is pretty much as good as it gets, out of the box. It needs a small amount of work and it's ready to go. Don't over pay someone to make it "marginally" better. At the end of the day, you're still going to deal with shitty seals, retightening of bolts, loosening nuts, stripping threads; no matter who ports it.
It actually sounds like you have an axe to grind based on your "wonderland" comment.
MMS has more independently proven Dyno results from 625-650 RWHP LS7s with his Ported MSD than any one else on this Forum.
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LS1Steve (03-06-2019)
03-06-2019, 07:42 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
Did you even run that Intake on your engine before selling it? It doesn't sound like it.
It actually sounds like you have an axe to grind based on your "wonderland" comment.
MMS has more independently proven Dyno results from 625-650 RWHP LS7s with his Ported MSD than any one else on this Forum.
It actually sounds like you have an axe to grind based on your "wonderland" comment.
MMS has more independently proven Dyno results from 625-650 RWHP LS7s with his Ported MSD than any one else on this Forum.
03-06-2019, 08:11 PM
#47
Racer
Thread Starter
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Che70velle (03-08-2019)
03-06-2019, 08:25 PM
#48
Drifting
03-07-2019, 04:34 AM
#49
For the people reading that are actually looking for information (from a credible source) I will sum it up for you.
The MSD intake, while providing a ton of potential, is extremely rough out of the box but even so its still worth (in unported trim) a nice bump in output over a stock LS7 (15 - 20 HP is probably about the norm in stock trim).
But....its a moving target....some intakes are rougher than others in out of the box trim with really poor transitions in the exits of the intakes, the fuel injector area, and even the top not properly aligned with the base. Trust me I have had my hands on literally hundreds of these intakes. And btw, there are no nuts and bolts to fall into your engine when you install an MSD. There is a threaded rod that is like 18" long that goes through ALL the runners and ties them together with a nylon safety nut on the end right behind the entrance. There isn't a nut on the other side like some are led to believe....the long rod threads directly into a brass fitting that is permanently installed in the rear base of the manifold and can not come loose. These items I just mentioned are the only hardware you will find in the plenum.
So while an MSD in stock trim is certainly a nice upgrade, if your the type that likes to optimize most of the parts you install and are interested in potentially doubling that output (for a much smaller fraction of the price of the total install) than you would want to look into the services I offer and have the manifold completely gone through by a professional qualified to do it properly with a proven track record of results a mile long (Google is your friend here).
The average guy looking at one of my ported intakes, while he will likely be impressed by the overall fit and finish of the job, wouldn't even realize the extent of what was done because when Im finished with it the shape looks like that's what it was supposed to look like and you don't see the dramatic reduction in the curvature of some of the port walls, or the tapering of the cross section to speed the air and other small nuances and details which effect the final shape I provide.
Most of my customers see 30 - 40 RWHP with this install assuming they have decent heads and a medium sized cam.....some with more aggressive combinations and large cams have seen 40 - 45 RWHP with no other changes (stock intake moving to a ported MSD and a 102 mm TB).
This is how much material I remove from a single MSD intake (and these are just the chips that landed on my porting bench.....some of them all over the guy wielding the carbide grinder and the rest landing on the floor nearby). Just to be clear that's a gallon sized zip lock freezer bag.....not a quart sized bag!
This intake is far from optimized in out of the box trim.....don't let anyone tell you differently. In fact in out of the box trim, the fit and finish of the FAST LS7 intake is by far alot better and more consistent but unfortunate for FAST, they just don't have as good a design regarding the real meat and potato's of what ultimately counts the most. Of course Im referring to the design of the plenum and runners of the MSD which provides a much straighter shot and is simply a better designed intake from the standpoint of function but the execution of that design in stock trim leaves alot to be desired. The good news is it can be made alot better if your well versed in cylinder head and intake manifold port development.
I would make a strong argument that this intake properly prepped is better than anything on the market if your focusing your efforts on a combination that you plan to shift at 7300 or less.....hell even 7500 I still put my money on the MSD as the average power this intake will produce is impressive. There have been many threads with comparisons with my ported MSD against intakes that cost triple the price and the story is usually all the same.....the MSD trounces it in the midrange and makes the same if not more power up top. Do some digging and you will see what Im saying is spot on. It offers one of the largest, if not the largest HP per dollar improvements of any LS7 mod your likely to consider.....that's a fact and Im sure it's probably the reason I have ported and sold so many of these. I get constant positive feedback from my customers that they are blown away by the results and cant thank me enough for the end product.
For the people reading this with an open mind, don't let forum mis-information steer you in the wrong direction and away from one of the best bolt on's your ever likely to install.
And once again I point you to this older but still extremely informative thread if you have an interest to learn more about the intake, how it compares to stock....how it compares to FAST, and see some independent dyno results featuring the type of results you can also expect to see yourself should you install one and have it properly tuned after you do.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...t-mamo-vs.html
Catch you guys later....
-Tony
The MSD intake, while providing a ton of potential, is extremely rough out of the box but even so its still worth (in unported trim) a nice bump in output over a stock LS7 (15 - 20 HP is probably about the norm in stock trim).
But....its a moving target....some intakes are rougher than others in out of the box trim with really poor transitions in the exits of the intakes, the fuel injector area, and even the top not properly aligned with the base. Trust me I have had my hands on literally hundreds of these intakes. And btw, there are no nuts and bolts to fall into your engine when you install an MSD. There is a threaded rod that is like 18" long that goes through ALL the runners and ties them together with a nylon safety nut on the end right behind the entrance. There isn't a nut on the other side like some are led to believe....the long rod threads directly into a brass fitting that is permanently installed in the rear base of the manifold and can not come loose. These items I just mentioned are the only hardware you will find in the plenum.
So while an MSD in stock trim is certainly a nice upgrade, if your the type that likes to optimize most of the parts you install and are interested in potentially doubling that output (for a much smaller fraction of the price of the total install) than you would want to look into the services I offer and have the manifold completely gone through by a professional qualified to do it properly with a proven track record of results a mile long (Google is your friend here).
The average guy looking at one of my ported intakes, while he will likely be impressed by the overall fit and finish of the job, wouldn't even realize the extent of what was done because when Im finished with it the shape looks like that's what it was supposed to look like and you don't see the dramatic reduction in the curvature of some of the port walls, or the tapering of the cross section to speed the air and other small nuances and details which effect the final shape I provide.
Most of my customers see 30 - 40 RWHP with this install assuming they have decent heads and a medium sized cam.....some with more aggressive combinations and large cams have seen 40 - 45 RWHP with no other changes (stock intake moving to a ported MSD and a 102 mm TB).
This is how much material I remove from a single MSD intake (and these are just the chips that landed on my porting bench.....some of them all over the guy wielding the carbide grinder and the rest landing on the floor nearby). Just to be clear that's a gallon sized zip lock freezer bag.....not a quart sized bag!
This intake is far from optimized in out of the box trim.....don't let anyone tell you differently. In fact in out of the box trim, the fit and finish of the FAST LS7 intake is by far alot better and more consistent but unfortunate for FAST, they just don't have as good a design regarding the real meat and potato's of what ultimately counts the most. Of course Im referring to the design of the plenum and runners of the MSD which provides a much straighter shot and is simply a better designed intake from the standpoint of function but the execution of that design in stock trim leaves alot to be desired. The good news is it can be made alot better if your well versed in cylinder head and intake manifold port development.
I would make a strong argument that this intake properly prepped is better than anything on the market if your focusing your efforts on a combination that you plan to shift at 7300 or less.....hell even 7500 I still put my money on the MSD as the average power this intake will produce is impressive. There have been many threads with comparisons with my ported MSD against intakes that cost triple the price and the story is usually all the same.....the MSD trounces it in the midrange and makes the same if not more power up top. Do some digging and you will see what Im saying is spot on. It offers one of the largest, if not the largest HP per dollar improvements of any LS7 mod your likely to consider.....that's a fact and Im sure it's probably the reason I have ported and sold so many of these. I get constant positive feedback from my customers that they are blown away by the results and cant thank me enough for the end product.
For the people reading this with an open mind, don't let forum mis-information steer you in the wrong direction and away from one of the best bolt on's your ever likely to install.
And once again I point you to this older but still extremely informative thread if you have an interest to learn more about the intake, how it compares to stock....how it compares to FAST, and see some independent dyno results featuring the type of results you can also expect to see yourself should you install one and have it properly tuned after you do.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...t-mamo-vs.html
Catch you guys later....
-Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 03-07-2019 at 06:12 AM.
03-07-2019, 02:09 PM
#50
Drifting
A few thoughts on the information below. You say 15-20HP increase with un-ported MSD and 30-40HP with porting and a decent cam. How much of the increase is due to the cam and how much is due to the porting?? I would think a decent cam would get that much improvement all by itself. Also with a decent cam and a ported MSD I would expect more than 30-40HP increase. The reason I ask is because I'm thinking about a cam and a MSD intake and know someone who did this with a CAI and is getting about 50 RWHP increase and was hoping to be able to get that also. Pardon my ignorance but if I'm to make a good decision I need accurate information
For the people reading that are actually looking for information (from a credible source) I will sum it up for you.
The MSD intake, while providing a ton of potential, is extremely rough out of the box but even so its still worth (in unported trim) a nice bump in output over a stock LS7 (15 - 20 HP is probably about the norm in stock trim).
But....its a moving target....some intakes are rougher than others in out of the box trim with really poor transitions in the exits of the intakes, the fuel injector area, and even the top not properly aligned with the base. Trust me I have had my hands on literally hundreds of these intakes. And btw, there are no nuts and bolts to fall into your engine when you install an MSD. There is a threaded rod that is like 18" long that goes through ALL the runners and ties them together with a nylon safety nut on the end right behind the entrance. There isn't a nut on the other side like some are led to believe....the long rod threads directly into a brass fitting that is permanently installed in the rear base of the manifold and can not come loose. These items I just mentioned are the only hardware you will find in the plenum.
So while an MSD in stock trim is certainly a nice upgrade, if your the type that likes to optimize most of the parts you install and are interested in potentially doubling that output (for a much smaller fraction of the price of the total install) than you would want to look into the services I offer and have the manifold completely gone through by a professional qualified to do it properly with a proven track record of results a mile long (Google is your friend here).
The average guy looking at one of my ported intakes, while he will likely be impressed by the overall fit and finish of the job, wouldn't even realize the extent of what was done because when Im finished with it the shape looks like that's what it was supposed to look like and you don't see the dramatic reduction in the curvature of some of the port walls, or the tapering of the cross section to speed the air and other small nuances and details which effect the final shape I provide.
Most of my customers see 30 - 40 RWHP with this install assuming they have decent heads and a medium sized cam.....some with more aggressive combinations and large cams have seen 40 - 45 RWHP with no other changes (stock intake moving to a ported MSD and a 102 mm TB).
This is how much material I remove from a single MSD intake (and these are just the chips that landed on my porting bench.....some of them all over the guy wielding the carbide grinder and the rest landing on the floor nearby). Just to be clear that's a gallon sized zip lock freezer bag.....not a quart sized bag!
This intake is far from optimized in out of the box trim.....don't let anyone tell you differently. In fact in out of the box trim, the fit and finish of the FAST LS7 intake is by far alot better and more consistent but unfortunate for FAST, they just don't have as good a design regarding the real meat and potato's of what ultimately counts the most. Of course Im referring to the design of the plenum and runners of the MSD which provides a much straighter shot and is simply a better designed intake from the standpoint of function but the execution of that design in stock trim leaves alot to be desired. The good news is it can be made alot better if your well versed in cylinder head and intake manifold port development.
I would make a strong argument that this intake properly prepped is better than anything on the market if your focusing your efforts on a combination that you plan to shift at 7300 or less.....hell even 7500 I still put my money on the MSD as the average power this intake will produce is impressive. There have been many threads with comparisons with my ported MSD against intakes that cost triple the price and the story is usually all the same.....the MSD trounces it in the midrange and makes the same if not more power up top. Do some digging and you will see what Im saying is spot on. It offers one of the largest, if not the largest HP per dollar improvements of any LS7 mod your likely to consider.....that's a fact and Im sure it's probably the reason I have ported and sold so many of these. I get constant positive feedback from my customers that they are blown away by the results and cant thank me enough for the end product.
For the people reading this with an open mind, don't let forum mis-information steer you in the wrong direction and away from one of the best bolt on's your ever likely to install.
And once again I point you to this older but still extremely informative thread if you have an interest to learn more about the intake, how it compares to stock....how it compares to FAST, and see some independent dyno results featuring the type of results you can also expect to see yourself should you install one and have it properly tuned after you do.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...t-mamo-vs.html
Catch you guys later....
-Tony
The MSD intake, while providing a ton of potential, is extremely rough out of the box but even so its still worth (in unported trim) a nice bump in output over a stock LS7 (15 - 20 HP is probably about the norm in stock trim).
But....its a moving target....some intakes are rougher than others in out of the box trim with really poor transitions in the exits of the intakes, the fuel injector area, and even the top not properly aligned with the base. Trust me I have had my hands on literally hundreds of these intakes. And btw, there are no nuts and bolts to fall into your engine when you install an MSD. There is a threaded rod that is like 18" long that goes through ALL the runners and ties them together with a nylon safety nut on the end right behind the entrance. There isn't a nut on the other side like some are led to believe....the long rod threads directly into a brass fitting that is permanently installed in the rear base of the manifold and can not come loose. These items I just mentioned are the only hardware you will find in the plenum.
So while an MSD in stock trim is certainly a nice upgrade, if your the type that likes to optimize most of the parts you install and are interested in potentially doubling that output (for a much smaller fraction of the price of the total install) than you would want to look into the services I offer and have the manifold completely gone through by a professional qualified to do it properly with a proven track record of results a mile long (Google is your friend here).
The average guy looking at one of my ported intakes, while he will likely be impressed by the overall fit and finish of the job, wouldn't even realize the extent of what was done because when Im finished with it the shape looks like that's what it was supposed to look like and you don't see the dramatic reduction in the curvature of some of the port walls, or the tapering of the cross section to speed the air and other small nuances and details which effect the final shape I provide.
Most of my customers see 30 - 40 RWHP with this install assuming they have decent heads and a medium sized cam.....some with more aggressive combinations and large cams have seen 40 - 45 RWHP with no other changes (stock intake moving to a ported MSD and a 102 mm TB).
This is how much material I remove from a single MSD intake (and these are just the chips that landed on my porting bench.....some of them all over the guy wielding the carbide grinder and the rest landing on the floor nearby). Just to be clear that's a gallon sized zip lock freezer bag.....not a quart sized bag!
This intake is far from optimized in out of the box trim.....don't let anyone tell you differently. In fact in out of the box trim, the fit and finish of the FAST LS7 intake is by far alot better and more consistent but unfortunate for FAST, they just don't have as good a design regarding the real meat and potato's of what ultimately counts the most. Of course Im referring to the design of the plenum and runners of the MSD which provides a much straighter shot and is simply a better designed intake from the standpoint of function but the execution of that design in stock trim leaves alot to be desired. The good news is it can be made alot better if your well versed in cylinder head and intake manifold port development.
I would make a strong argument that this intake properly prepped is better than anything on the market if your focusing your efforts on a combination that you plan to shift at 7300 or less.....hell even 7500 I still put my money on the MSD as the average power this intake will produce is impressive. There have been many threads with comparisons with my ported MSD against intakes that cost triple the price and the story is usually all the same.....the MSD trounces it in the midrange and makes the same if not more power up top. Do some digging and you will see what Im saying is spot on. It offers one of the largest, if not the largest HP per dollar improvements of any LS7 mod your likely to consider.....that's a fact and Im sure it's probably the reason I have ported and sold so many of these. I get constant positive feedback from my customers that they are blown away by the results and cant thank me enough for the end product.
For the people reading this with an open mind, don't let forum mis-information steer you in the wrong direction and away from one of the best bolt on's your ever likely to install.
And once again I point you to this older but still extremely informative thread if you have an interest to learn more about the intake, how it compares to stock....how it compares to FAST, and see some independent dyno results featuring the type of results you can also expect to see yourself should you install one and have it properly tuned after you do.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...t-mamo-vs.html
Catch you guys later....
-Tony
03-07-2019, 03:15 PM
#51
A few thoughts on the information below. You say 15-20HP increase with un-ported MSD and 30-40HP with porting and a decent cam. How much of the increase is due to the cam and how much is due to the porting?? I would think a decent cam would get that much improvement all by itself. Also with a decent cam and a ported MSD I would expect more than 30-40HP increase. The reason I ask is because I'm thinking about a cam and a MSD intake and know someone who did this with a CAI and is getting about 50 RWHP increase and was hoping to be able to get that also. Pardon my ignorance but if I'm to make a good decision I need accurate information
None of what Im discussing involves a camshaft in the mix regarding back to back results. Most of the comparisons already include an aftermarket cam and typically ported heads already in the baseline. We are only looking at gains from the ported intake manifold (some with a larger 102 mm TB in the mix) all by itself....a true comparison.
Speaking of ported heads, larger gains from the swap will alway happen with premium cylinder heads as the stock intake manifold represents an even greater restriction to a really well designed set of high flow clean sheet design offerings like my MMS 265 heads. Smaller cams and OEM heads (or mildly ported OEM heads) will always show gains in the lower to middle end of the range I provided for reasons just explained but even in those situations most of my customers see over 25 RWHP and 20 or more gains in RWTQ as well.
For a bolt on mod that can be installed in half a lazy afternoon this represents a solid upgrade in power and more importantly average power and area under the curve....the car feels notably faster and much more responsive after the swap!
Hope this clarifies things for you
Regards
Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 03-07-2019 at 09:55 PM.
03-07-2019, 05:00 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
Did you even run that Intake on your engine before selling it? It doesn't sound like it.
It actually sounds like you have an axe to grind based on your "wonderland" comment.
MMS has more independently proven Dyno results from 625-650 RWHP LS7s with his Ported MSD than any one else on this Forum.
It actually sounds like you have an axe to grind based on your "wonderland" comment.
MMS has more independently proven Dyno results from 625-650 RWHP LS7s with his Ported MSD than any one else on this Forum.
At the end, what ever "floats" your valve...ah, sorry I mean, boat.
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03-07-2019, 09:54 PM
#55
I guess in the last 2-3 years I have helped a few hundred extremely happy foster families adopt very well behaved children that were "born" at Mamo Motorsports....LOL (or certainly the vast majority of them!)
Cheers,
Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 03-07-2019 at 09:56 PM.
03-07-2019, 10:08 PM
#56
03-08-2019, 06:29 AM
#57
Originally Posted by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports
Good one Steve
I guess in the last 2-3 years I have helped a few hundred extremely happy foster families adopt very well behaved children that were "born" at Mamo Motorsports....LOL (or certainly the vast majority of them!)
Cheers,
Tony
I guess in the last 2-3 years I have helped a few hundred extremely happy foster families adopt very well behaved children that were "born" at Mamo Motorsports....LOL (or certainly the vast majority of them!)
Cheers,
Tony
Last edited by Jjagg0125; 03-08-2019 at 06:29 AM.
03-08-2019, 07:26 AM
#59
You would see even more with w 102 TB but it would add about $400 to the cost and is probably only worth 3-4 with this combo over a ported OEM unit.. A ported OEM TB would be very cost effective at $250 (if you sent me yours to port) versus $650 for a 102.
So yes.....even in your situation there are still large gains to be had
If a phone call is helpful PM me your info and I will give you a ring to better explain and go over things.
Also I extended my composite intake manifold sale / group purchase another week (indirectly that's what started this thread). It definitely closes this Sunday night so if you are interested you could hop on that deal and take advantage of the timing to save a few bucks.
Regards,
Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 03-08-2019 at 07:27 AM.
03-08-2019, 11:53 AM
#60
Drifting
Larry.....did you take the time to read the thread I provided?
None of what Im discussing involves a camshaft in the mix regarding back to back results. Most of the comparisons already include an aftermarket cam and typically ported heads already in the baseline. We are only looking at gains from the ported intake manifold (some with a larger 102 mm TB in the mix) all by itself....a true comparison.
Speaking of ported heads, larger gains from the swap will alway happen with premium cylinder heads as the stock intake manifold represents an even greater restriction to a really well designed set of high flow clean sheet design offerings like my MMS 265 heads. Smaller cams and OEM heads (or mildly ported OEM heads) will always show gains in the lower to middle end of the range I provided for reasons just explained but even in those situations most of my customers see over 25 RWHP and 20 or more gains in RWTQ as well.
For a bolt on mod that can be installed in half a lazy afternoon this represents a solid upgrade in power and more importantly average power and area under the curve....the car feels notably faster and much more responsive after the swap!
Hope this clarifies things for you
Regards
Tony
None of what Im discussing involves a camshaft in the mix regarding back to back results. Most of the comparisons already include an aftermarket cam and typically ported heads already in the baseline. We are only looking at gains from the ported intake manifold (some with a larger 102 mm TB in the mix) all by itself....a true comparison.
Speaking of ported heads, larger gains from the swap will alway happen with premium cylinder heads as the stock intake manifold represents an even greater restriction to a really well designed set of high flow clean sheet design offerings like my MMS 265 heads. Smaller cams and OEM heads (or mildly ported OEM heads) will always show gains in the lower to middle end of the range I provided for reasons just explained but even in those situations most of my customers see over 25 RWHP and 20 or more gains in RWTQ as well.
For a bolt on mod that can be installed in half a lazy afternoon this represents a solid upgrade in power and more importantly average power and area under the curve....the car feels notably faster and much more responsive after the swap!
Hope this clarifies things for you
Regards
Tony
"Most of my customers see 30 - 40 RWHP with this install assuming they have decent heads and a medium sized cam...."
Did you read my reply??
I can easily get 30-40 with a moderate cam even without a new intake, so what does your porting give over the cam (that was the question, care to answer?). Seems like a fair question. Why does everybody get insulting when the conversation goes in a direction they don't like. Seems like a trait of a lot of the forum conversations.