Just a Quick H/C/I/E…..and apparently a Short Block.
#1
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Just a Quick H/C/I/E Build Thread…..and apparently a Short Block.
So to preface, I bought the Car 2 years ago and at one point it had been fairly heavily modded and then most of the parts were stripped and returned to stock-ish form by a previous owner. The car ran fairly decent, however, I became suspicious the Tune was never touched up like it should have been after the parts removal. I bought HP tuners and did some data logging to find I was getting up to 8 degrees of KR. I know enough about tuning to know the tune was sh***y but not enough to completely retune it. Seeing as I was planning these upgrades and would need a tune anyways, I reduced timing enough to stop the KR and waited to get the tune touched up. I’m thinking now that was a mistake.
So currently as the car sits it has:
LME fixed/ported/milled heads and Katech K501 Cam.
LS9 Clutch with an Aluminum Flywheel
Billy Boat Fusion Cat-back.
My best ¼ was 11.98 and best mph was like 123 on street tires and it made 517/422 on the dyno. Few Pics/Dyno Sheet/Time Slip.
So onto my Original Plan:
MAMO’s Trick Flow 265 Heads. (Bought used/new so there’s some details to sort out here yet)
MAMO ported MSD
Yella-Terra Ultra Lite RR
RPM B3 Cam
Johnson ST2126LSR Lifters
ARH 2’ Headers w/ Catless X
NW 102 Throttle Body
Halltech CF 112 and Beehive CAI
ATI 10% UD Dampener
ID850 Injectors
Flex Fuel Sensor
House of Boost A1000 In-tank kit with the Controller/Rails/Regulator/etc. that I plan on modifying slightly to my liking.
Clutch is a ??? mark yet but leaning towards a Monster LT1-S
Original End Goals:
140 to 145mph 1/4. (I say MPH instead of an ET cause I don’t have a drag setup yet/driver experience/etc.)
630 to 650hp on the DYNO. (I know its just a tool)
Maintain some Drivability. (Obviously this is subjective)
Mainly E85 driven (very common by me) with Capability to run 93 or even 91 with an octane booster if absolutely needed (road trip or something).
If my math is correct the car was going to be approx. 12.3 to 12.4 SCR and with the B3 Cam events put me around a 8.8 DCR. I am by no means a Guru but those numbers combined with a .035 to .040 quench put me on the upper limit of Gas (reduced timing likely) while seeing more of a benefit from the E85. (Feel free to chime in here if I’m way off)
So as the title and a few previous comments elude to, I went to bolt on the goodies that I have been sourcing over the past year or so, only to pull the Heads and discovered I have become a Victim of the #7 Piston failure (likely from all the Detonation) and will now be building a short block too.
I have been a creeper on the forums here for quite a while and have always really enjoyed reading the well detailed build threads (almost envious that I haven’t had the opportunity to create my own). I had every intention of creating my own thread during this install but time constraints and lack of internet access (besides a cell) made me skip it. Well, now that the car is going to be down likely all summer, I figured I would take the opportunity to create that thread I always wanted to, hopefully generating some helpful ideas along the way.
If your still with me, you’re up to speed and thanks for reading.... more to follow.
So currently as the car sits it has:
LME fixed/ported/milled heads and Katech K501 Cam.
LS9 Clutch with an Aluminum Flywheel
Billy Boat Fusion Cat-back.
My best ¼ was 11.98 and best mph was like 123 on street tires and it made 517/422 on the dyno. Few Pics/Dyno Sheet/Time Slip.
So onto my Original Plan:
MAMO’s Trick Flow 265 Heads. (Bought used/new so there’s some details to sort out here yet)
MAMO ported MSD
Yella-Terra Ultra Lite RR
RPM B3 Cam
Johnson ST2126LSR Lifters
ARH 2’ Headers w/ Catless X
NW 102 Throttle Body
Halltech CF 112 and Beehive CAI
ATI 10% UD Dampener
ID850 Injectors
Flex Fuel Sensor
House of Boost A1000 In-tank kit with the Controller/Rails/Regulator/etc. that I plan on modifying slightly to my liking.
Clutch is a ??? mark yet but leaning towards a Monster LT1-S
Original End Goals:
140 to 145mph 1/4. (I say MPH instead of an ET cause I don’t have a drag setup yet/driver experience/etc.)
630 to 650hp on the DYNO. (I know its just a tool)
Maintain some Drivability. (Obviously this is subjective)
Mainly E85 driven (very common by me) with Capability to run 93 or even 91 with an octane booster if absolutely needed (road trip or something).
If my math is correct the car was going to be approx. 12.3 to 12.4 SCR and with the B3 Cam events put me around a 8.8 DCR. I am by no means a Guru but those numbers combined with a .035 to .040 quench put me on the upper limit of Gas (reduced timing likely) while seeing more of a benefit from the E85. (Feel free to chime in here if I’m way off)
So as the title and a few previous comments elude to, I went to bolt on the goodies that I have been sourcing over the past year or so, only to pull the Heads and discovered I have become a Victim of the #7 Piston failure (likely from all the Detonation) and will now be building a short block too.
I have been a creeper on the forums here for quite a while and have always really enjoyed reading the well detailed build threads (almost envious that I haven’t had the opportunity to create my own). I had every intention of creating my own thread during this install but time constraints and lack of internet access (besides a cell) made me skip it. Well, now that the car is going to be down likely all summer, I figured I would take the opportunity to create that thread I always wanted to, hopefully generating some helpful ideas along the way.
If your still with me, you’re up to speed and thanks for reading.... more to follow.
Last edited by Wroblewski; 06-18-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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#2
Le Mans Master
Subbing...build threads are cool.
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Wroblewski (06-18-2019)
#3
wow, sucks to plan such a build only to find out you've had a failure like that. do you think this was a problem when you bought it or was caused by not retuning the car?
definitely keep updating. I'm considering a C6Z, love the LS7, and researching all the issues to plan for, etc.
definitely keep updating. I'm considering a C6Z, love the LS7, and researching all the issues to plan for, etc.
#4
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Thread Starter
wow, sucks to plan such a build only to find out you've had a failure like that. do you think this was a problem when you bought it or was caused by not retuning the car?
definitely keep updating. I'm considering a C6Z, love the LS7, and researching all the issues to plan for, etc.
definitely keep updating. I'm considering a C6Z, love the LS7, and researching all the issues to plan for, etc.
Who knows for sure.
With that said I didnt do it any favors by not retuning it and I have to take blame for knowingly putting myself at risk for something like this. Car took a fair amount of street hits, 2 dyno pulls, and 5 track passes before I really made an effort to reduce timing.
I love the C6Z and the LS7. This Platform has crazy potential for NA power. I came from owning a few Trans Ams/Mustangs etc and when I first got this car I didnt care for it. I was used to a more raw muscle car feel and this seemed to smooth and refined during normal driving and I was almost bored with it. Then it was an absolute handful when you got on it. It took me some seat time to really get acquainted and now I think this is the longest I've owned any of my "toy" cars.
#5
very cool. thanks for the reply.
I think you took a calculated risk, and this time it caught you, but you will have a known quantity when you finish this build, and know everything about it, so that will be piece of mind for the effort.
I think you took a calculated risk, and this time it caught you, but you will have a known quantity when you finish this build, and know everything about it, so that will be piece of mind for the effort.
#6
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Thread Starter
I got the chance to work on the Car for an hour or 2 this afternoon. Everything about it went poorly but progress was made none the less. I got the Balancer pulled, timing cover, cam gear, cam retainer plate, and cam removed.
I stripped out 2 of the torx flatheads holding the cam retainer plate on. Why torx is even an accepted faster I'll never know. Aciddently used the wrong socket as the end to the pulley puller and ruined some threads on that. You know....just a standard day in the garage lol.
I had to drill out the torx and use an easy out so for once I was actually glad the shortblock was bad.
Some pics of the old cam #'s, from what I can tell match up with a K501 specs. Stripped Torx and the days progress.
I stripped out 2 of the torx flatheads holding the cam retainer plate on. Why torx is even an accepted faster I'll never know. Aciddently used the wrong socket as the end to the pulley puller and ruined some threads on that. You know....just a standard day in the garage lol.
I had to drill out the torx and use an easy out so for once I was actually glad the shortblock was bad.
Some pics of the old cam #'s, from what I can tell match up with a K501 specs. Stripped Torx and the days progress.
#7
Team Owner
Will be interesting to see what the rods look like. Almost every ls7 I've seen recently had self destructing rods.
#10
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Tampa FL
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St. Jude Donor '13
I bought HP tuners and did some data logging to find I was getting up to 8 degrees of KR. I know enough about tuning to know the tune was sh***y but not enough to completely retune it. Seeing as I was planning these upgrades and would need a tune anyways, I reduced timing enough to stop the KR and waited to get the tune touched up. I’m thinking now that was a mistake.
Good luck with your build. Can't wait to see the results.
#11
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I've been doing a ton of reading on what direction I want to go with on the new shortblock and the rods seem to have alot of issues that dont have great solutions or at least solutions that I've been able to find. Getting the small end re-bushed and new rod bolts through Katech seems to be a solution for one problem but the coating issue keeps coming up and so far I havent found a realistic solution for that. It's a 30k mile shortblock so we will see what they look like soon.
#12
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Tampa FL
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St. Jude Donor '13
I've been doing a ton of reading on what direction I want to go with on the new shortblock and the rods seem to have alot of issues that dont have great solutions or at least solutions that I've been able to find. Getting the small end re-bushed and new rod bolts through Katech seems to be a solution for one problem but the coating issue keeps coming up and so far I havent found a realistic solution for that. It's a 30k mile shortblock so we will see what they look like soon.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-in-there.html
#13
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Made some small progress again tonight. I work 12 Hour Swing shift so after work, both motivation and time seem to be lacking. Anyways, I got the Oil Pan, Windage Tray, and the drivers side pistons all out. I still can't be 100% sure if I cracked a sleeve or not yet. There is a definitive set of marks in the cylinder wall though.
I didn't study the rods seriously but on a quick once over they appear to be in excellent shape. The only one with any marks at all is #7, which is the piston that let go. It has very, very minor scuffing which is so minor, I will be curious to see if I can scrub it off with a little elbow grease and paper towel. It was on the crank side, which from memory I believe is usually the opposite of what people tend to see (rod on rod crime generally)
After getting the Bad piston out it appears I was very lucky and this thing was a ticking time bomb. The Second Ringland had a chunk broken out as well, but the rings and tight tolerance location managed to hold it in place. Makes a guy wonder how long I've been on borrowed time. While not a pleasant scenario, it could have been much worse.
May Give HPR a jingle this weekend and discuss short block scenario's, so if anyone has had any good or bad to share I'd appreciate it. PM's are welcome and understood if you don't feel like publicly discussing it.
Wont be any Progress made tomorrow as I work and then have Volley Ball but I am hoping this weekend to have a spare minute or two.
I didn't study the rods seriously but on a quick once over they appear to be in excellent shape. The only one with any marks at all is #7, which is the piston that let go. It has very, very minor scuffing which is so minor, I will be curious to see if I can scrub it off with a little elbow grease and paper towel. It was on the crank side, which from memory I believe is usually the opposite of what people tend to see (rod on rod crime generally)
After getting the Bad piston out it appears I was very lucky and this thing was a ticking time bomb. The Second Ringland had a chunk broken out as well, but the rings and tight tolerance location managed to hold it in place. Makes a guy wonder how long I've been on borrowed time. While not a pleasant scenario, it could have been much worse.
May Give HPR a jingle this weekend and discuss short block scenario's, so if anyone has had any good or bad to share I'd appreciate it. PM's are welcome and understood if you don't feel like publicly discussing it.
Wont be any Progress made tomorrow as I work and then have Volley Ball but I am hoping this weekend to have a spare minute or two.
Last edited by Wroblewski; 06-19-2019 at 10:34 PM.
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pielet97 (06-19-2019)
#14
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My short block has about 35000 miles on it. While I had the heads off for repair for a second time (first by previous owner, I didn't like the oil analysis results while waiting for the heads and decided to sleeve the LS7 block, get rid of the titanium rods and things took a left turn from there. If you want some more reading...
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-in-there.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-in-there.html
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MickVette (06-20-2019)
#15
great work here, excellent reporting, thanks for the entertainment, keep up the good work!
#16
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Tampa FL
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St. Jude Donor '13
I started reading into your thread a few pages lol. A guy will lose hours of his life in a good build thread lol. If there's one area I am lacking in knowledge, it's definitely Cam's. Just when I thought I had my combo sorted, his whole short block debacle gets a guy second guessing everything. Is the cam I selected the right one for my combo? What about my new Combo? Maybe I should have one spec'd. Should I just go ***** to the wall for future potential? Now's the time for an LSX!!! I've always wanted a Procharger, maybe now's the time? etc., etc., lol. The Desktop Dyno bit was interesting. I made it as far as HPR receiving your block. I will definitely read more into it as time allows.
You got pretty lucky to catch that piston when you did. That could have been a real mess. Take your time and enjoy the build. I understand working 12 hour days and how little time is left to do much other than sleep and eat. Your first day off is to catch up on everything you had to push off all week then you finally get a day for your things.
#17
Melting Slicks
Short block
If you are sticking with na either use your block and get all 8 new Darton sleeve put in oranything you buy make sure Darton sleeves. Up to you on the rods and what you want to do. The least down time is to buy an entire short block and sell your old stuff. If you are na stay away of the 5.3 block great block very strong but you loose 20 HP with the lack of windows for bay to bay breathing. I read a story that when they were developing ls7 they couldn't get the 505 HP but when they added the Windows that did it. As far as cubes go hpr is very good at that. Josh b found that even though the GM rods are lighter than steel the aftermarket crank is like 5 pounds lighter than GM. Good luck.
#18
Drifting
You can also grab pistons that are lighter.
Since it is all apart, go custom cam and Hi-Ram.
Since it is all apart, go custom cam and Hi-Ram.
#19
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If you are sticking with na either use your block and get all 8 new Darton sleeve put in oranything you buy make sure Darton sleeves. Up to you on the rods and what you want to do. The least down time is to buy an entire short block and sell your old stuff. If you are na stay away of the 5.3 block great block very strong but you loose 20 HP with the lack of windows for bay to bay breathing. I read a story that when they were developing ls7 they couldn't get the 505 HP but when they added the Windows that did it. As far as cubes go hpr is very good at that. Josh b found that even though the GM rods are lighter than steel the aftermarket crank is like 5 pounds lighter than GM. Good luck.
While the Top End power of the Hi-Ram is appealing I not a huge fan of cutting the hood. Once I do that, I'm just going to turn it into a race car and deal with the wife's wrath lol. I do think a custom cam is the best route now that this has spiraled down the rabbit hole. Well it was likely always the best route, but didn't have the convenience ordering one off the shelf had.
#20
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I got a few hours in the Garage this morning. I got the remaining pistons, rear cover, and Crank out. As well as any Misc. plugs/bolts/etc. I was pleasantly suprised everything looks pretty good.(well except the pistons lol) Minimal wear on the Rod Bearings and a few spots on the Main's but nothing excessive. It's tough to get good pictures to really show it. All the rods look like new with the exception being #7 having the very minor mark on it in the pics above. Now to get the Block Cleaned up and sent out. Make some phone calls and ultimately some decisions.Now is when things start to get expensive.
Last edited by Wroblewski; 06-22-2019 at 04:16 PM.