Runge_Kutta

In case anyone is curious about magnesium - since the 2006 Z06 subframes
will be made using magnesium... Here's a "structural cradle" on
pages 10-16. It looks like it's either AZ91D, AM50A, or AM60A alloy.
Is a "structural cradle" a subframe??


http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesa..._materials.pdf

Also:

http://autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=1103
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...09/ai_74034573
http://aiqnet.com/aml/ApplicationsMagnesiumHM-DR.pdf

Corvettes White

Interesting reading, got part way through then the Government web site crashed.

In my mind, a subframe looks like a traditional automobile frame except for only a portion of the length of the car. It would bolt to a unibody car where the unibody is also only a portion of the car. I.E. early Cameros. This part looks like it bolts across the two side rails of the Vette connecting them structurally across.

George

Runge_Kutta

Be sure to glance over that entire document. I'm amazed
to see aluminum MMCs being used for brake rotors. I would
have thought that the temperatures would get too hot.

Here's an old thread that is somewhat relevant:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=864479

I can't wait for the GenV small-block. A HiPerf version could
use a magnesium block with titanium MMC parts. Give it the
latest iteration of the 3V heads along with central injection
GDI and you've got yourself a winner.

Also,

http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=2004-01-0654

http://www.sae.org/servlets/techSess...ESSION_DETAILS

Notice the name Richard Osborne in the 2:00PM and 3:45PM sessions and the
list of names on Page 10 of the original document that I mentioned.

http://www.sae.org/servlets/techSess...ESSION_DETAILS

Tom Steele

They will?

Source?

Lazerwolfe

Check out Rick's thread. It's mentioned towards the end.

Runge_Kutta

I've posted this several times. Here it is again

http://www.sae.org/servlets/techSess...ESSION_DETAILS

Take a look at the 3:45 presentation. Notice that there is a special session
on the Corvette:

http://www.sae.org/servlets/techSess...&BYTRACK=HIGHP

LS6v

The 3:45pm C6 Z06 presentation is gone.

Runge_Kutta

The meeting is in 4+ months. The papers aren't usually submitted until
near the time of the meeting. You can buy the paper in May or June of
2005 if you wish. The point is that the title tells you most of what
you need to know. If you're not an engineer then the actual paper
will be of little value to you. The combination of knowing the title
to this presentation and having the very first link I gave above tells you
a bunch that you would otherwise not know. If it's worth anything,
one can get up to a 25% weight savings by moving from aluminum
to magnesium. From page 10, you get the feeling that the new magnesium
parts are going on all C6's but the title of the paper implies an
exclusivity. (Maybe we're talking about different parts?) They claim a 35%
weight loss.


By the way, take a look at SAE 970370:

http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...PROD_CD=970370

The C5 parts are made of Aluminum Alloy A356-T6. Magensium is very
castable and I wonder if the new part isn't cheaper than the aluminum one.
I don't see a weight listed but those front and rear crossmembers are
big parts and likely weigh a bunch. I'd be surprised if you couldn't take
10 pounds out of each. The picture of the C5 crossmembers looks just like
the figure 2 on page 11 of the original link. Figure 3 may be the other
one (front or rear) but they use the phrase "job 1" which is a Ford expression.

Tom Steele

As in this?

That strikes me as being PART of the frame, and not necessarily the frame rails or a major part of the frame. Did I miss something?

Thanks,

Runge_Kutta

Don't be fooled by the picture of a C5!


http://www.cavs.msstate.edu/cmd/projects/corvette.html

Runge_Kutta

Speaking of lightweight materials ...

For anyone who wants to see where the future is for things like
aluminum, magnesium, titanium, carbon fiber, and MMCs:

http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesa...research.shtml
http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesa...ications.shtml
http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesa...vt_alm04.shtml

You're going to have to work to learn something here:

[Titanium]
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...tanium+FY+2003

[Magnesium]
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...nesium+FY+2003

[Carbon Fiber]
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ber%22+FY+2003

[Aluminum]
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...uminum+FY+2003

[Metal Matrix Composites - MMCs]
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...df+MMC+FY+2003

vetteconvert

FYI: Next generation (2005/6) BMW 3 in-line 6 will have a composite Al/Mg block with a Mg cased transmission.


FYI: Aluminum brake rotors will have a much bigger problem with stress than heat. Aero grade Al can be made to take the heat, but Al alloys are just a bit to ductile. And a bit difficult to keep thickness variations with in specifications.

That's why cast-iron is still king. It's not just price.

Anyway, the future for brake rotors belongs to ceramic composites, IMO


Thanks for all the cool links!