[ZR1] Corvette C7 Mid-Engine?
07-22-2007, 07:04 PM
#41
Good assessment.
07-22-2007, 07:49 PM
#42
Safety Car
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The market for expensive cars is growing. A higher price should not hurt sales if the product is truly desirable. Some of the compromises dictated by price are what actually hurt sales volume. Porsche is the most profitable car company out there. They are masters of effective marketing. Chevrolet has expanded the option list to get more value into each sale and is offering improvements. The premiums paid over MSRP indicate no shortage of money for desirable cars of all kinds. What feeds that frenzy like nothing else is when a new model 'the latest and greatest' appears in limited quanties. An 'evolution' of the same old excuses won't have that desired result. Mr Lutz is looking for a home run to keep the game going...
Not to be contrarian, but I'm pretty sure I read that the folks funding the Bugatti Veyron aren't breaking even (Audi/VW?) - which means to me that people will CERTAINLY pay lots of money for "awesomeness"... but without some volume, you can't make a ton o' money... and the beauty (backed up by numbers) of the C6Z06 is that it's the most awesomest car out there for the money, by a long shot.
Push it up into the same price range as a Lambo or Ferrari, and people might not opt to buy domestic.
My point is that you can design, build, and sell an expensive supercar, but unless you keep it simple and mass produce it, Generally (pun intended) you can't make a huge profit. Or it'll be darn tough, seeing as how most Corvette buyers want a relatively affordable, remarkably capable FR sports car.
I would be interested to see how Porsche's profits break down (how much true profit they make from the annual sales of Carrera GT's vs. how much they make from the sales of Boxsters, for instance.)
PS - Don't know crap about sales/marketing/statistics - but I would hate to see it come to the point where buying a "plain" Vette with FR being the equivalent of "settling" for a Boxster or a V-6 Camaro or a non-EVO Lancer.
PPS - No offense to Boxster or V-6 Camaro or Lancer owners.
07-23-2007, 12:22 AM
#43
Race Director
The point I was trying to make is that GM CAN'T produce a mid-engined variant of the Corvette for anywhere near $70k. This (IMHO) would absolutely kill their market share and make the Corvette unattainable for anyone but the mega-rich (and far outside the demographics for the C5 & C6 buyers).
But add a 4th model (Coupe, Vert, Z06, Z07 mid-engine) and you can cover the spectrum from low-end to high-end, and SOME of the technology from the Z07 (my choice for the name at least) would trickle down to the "standard" Corvette configurations (engine management, brakes, engine design, etc.).
But add a 4th model (Coupe, Vert, Z06, Z07 mid-engine) and you can cover the spectrum from low-end to high-end, and SOME of the technology from the Z07 (my choice for the name at least) would trickle down to the "standard" Corvette configurations (engine management, brakes, engine design, etc.).
I don't know, but maybe a front engine for a Vette and a mid engine for a new Cadillic model????
07-23-2007, 01:53 AM
#44
Le Mans Master
The Corvette is already mid-engined
Whether the engine is positioned in front of or behind the driver is not holding back the performance of the Corvette (see the Ferrari 599 for ample evidence of what's possible with a front mid-engined chassis). Engine location, however, does dermine the overall character of the car, and a mid-engined Corvette would be out of character, in my opinion. Let GM make a rear mid-engined supercar if they like, just don't call it "Corvette."
It's all about tradition. The Miura was rear mid-engined because that's what was trick in the '60s (all the race cars had started doing it) and the follow-on Countach, Diablo and Murcielago were the same way because that's what it meant to be an "exotic." Porsche hangs their engine out the back because they always have, and that's what buyers expect, even if it doesn't make the most sense -- the 944 Turbo S could clean the clock of many a 911 at the race track, but nobody wanted a 4-cylinder, water-cooled, front-engined Porsche. And after lots of development, they've got the rear-engine layout working pretty well.
Along the same lines, the C7 should have the engine up front, where it belongs.
It's all about tradition. The Miura was rear mid-engined because that's what was trick in the '60s (all the race cars had started doing it) and the follow-on Countach, Diablo and Murcielago were the same way because that's what it meant to be an "exotic." Porsche hangs their engine out the back because they always have, and that's what buyers expect, even if it doesn't make the most sense -- the 944 Turbo S could clean the clock of many a 911 at the race track, but nobody wanted a 4-cylinder, water-cooled, front-engined Porsche. And after lots of development, they've got the rear-engine layout working pretty well.
Along the same lines, the C7 should have the engine up front, where it belongs.
07-23-2007, 09:16 AM
#45
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I keep reading that a mid-engine design will bump the cost up to the $70k range. Can somebody explain why changing the location of the engine from the front of the car to the rear can effect the price that much?
07-23-2007, 09:31 AM
#46
Le Mans Master
I read an article once where they said it wouldn't cost more at all. They chose not to because of the user friendliness and handling of a front engine. Including a nice big trunk space that you lose with mid/rear engine cars.
07-24-2007, 05:18 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by Joe90;1561045142Same thing can be said about the Ford GT...the [B
dealers[/B] killed the production of that car from their greed. If they would have been happy with a $10k mark-up (not the $100k+ they were demanding) Ford would still be making them.
production run was to be ~4000 units and that is what Ford did.
07-24-2007, 06:31 PM
#48
Safety Car
They stopped short BECAUSE dealers were gouging the hell out of them, and they were not selling.
They could have made another 1000 easy if they had some control over "market adjustments" the dealers make. The fact that they sat on the lots for months and didn't move was why they stopped production short.
I work at & with dealers every day...all across the country. I see what they ask for cars, and how long they linger on the floor-plan. If cars don't move, the manufacturer will stop producing them...plain and simple.
07-25-2007, 03:58 AM
#49
Get Some!
My sources said that with the suspension design of the Corvette they will have adaquate trunk space, see my other post here for more info.
07-25-2007, 07:05 PM
#50
Instructor
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07-26-2007, 10:27 AM
#52
Drifting
"Kyle Teichert put this on the CorvetteForum.com October 4, 2002. It is a tweaked Cadillac Cien V-12 show car."
I didn't have any front views. Check Kyle's web site.
David
