GOLD72

Time to let Jan M take the ZR1 around the ring with the competition rubber.

FNBADAZ06

There's an interesting quote in the interview that address just this idea....it sounds like that won't happen for several reasons.

venomws7

What about the new Ron Fellow? I hope we'll see it at the ring

Shurshot

Isn't that just a Z07 equipped ZO6 with the cup tire option in a special appearance package the same as a centennial edition is?

It would have been nice if they had given it a HP bump

(although the word I have heard is there was a software change that has all of the 2011 and 2012 ZO6's making more hp)

vette friend

(from another thread) So let me get this straight. In 2008, Viper hires Tom Cornell, who lives at the Nurburgring, and specializes at the Nurburgring racing Vipers. He runs a 7:22.4. Perhaps a few seconds left on the table. And suddenly the same car, maybe with some gear box ratio changes runs 10 seconds faster? That would be like Jan Mag. living at the ring for a year, practicing all the time, setting a lap, and 3 years later someone else bettering it by 10 seconds based just on pure talent. I think the whole thing is somewhat suspicious

QUIKAG

The capabilities of these production cars is just getting astounding. Hats off to the LF-A and even moreso the Viper! Competition is a great thing and it would be cool if Chevy came up with an ACR edition of the Corvette ZR1. Plus, it's going to push development of the C7 and next-gen Vipers!

I think this ACR time is going to stand for a while nonetheless.

jvp

For what little it may be worth, let's try to keep this thread on topic regarding the actual interview, and not on the LF-A or the Viper's accomplishments. Otherwise this one will get punted to the "Other Cars" forum as the other threads have.

jas

QUIKAG

Here is the ZR1 and LFA overlay on the ring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L02cJmp7zFs


The LFA does start to pull away in the last half of the video. My one big question:

Supercharger heat soak?!?!?!

timvette7

I'm still just not convinced. The viper should not be that far off in numbers and the Lfa should be no where near the vette at the track. I think that GM should set up a street car like the C6R and call it the nurburg edition LOL. I will say though done of this matters to me because I will still blow them both away at the red light in my ZR1 ( oh yeah).

QUIKAG

I'm convinced as much as it pains me to admit it. The Viper ACR is a better track car than the ZR1 while the ZR1 just happens to be very good on the track and massively better around town (in driveability, comfort, take wife to dinner, etc) than the Viper. Rest assured, if GM produced a Ring or ACR edition of the ZR1, it would be much closer to the ACR time. Not sure it would be faster, but it would be a lot closer.

The LFA that got this 7:14 time is the Nurburgring version of the LFA. It's transmission, chassis, and suspension are superior to the ZR1. Also, while down on power the V10 engine of the LFA that revs out to 9,000+rpm is a superior track powerplant.

I really think a good part of the difference on the LFA and ZR1 ring runs is heat soak of the ZR1. You can tell the ZR1 is getting a bit 'tired' towards the end of the video whereas the LFA still looks as fresh as it was at the beginning of that video. Part of that is the 4x multiple in cost between the LFA and ZR1. GM had to make cost/benefit decisions that will allow the ZR1 to heat soak towards the end of a hard track session whereas the LFA will still be fresh.

I love my ZR1, but if I ran it hard for 30 minutes on the track here in TX, it would overheat (it did this past Sunday as a matter of fact...260+coolant at Motorsport Ranch 15 minutes into a track session with 100F ambient heat) while the LFA would probably be bored after a 30 minute track session with coolant/engine oil temps probably just above normal. That is the benefit of $300k of extra cost in the LFA.

FNBADAZ06

Tadge and Mero come straight out and say that, while running the 'Ring is part of the engineering and validation steps they take to create the street car we drive today, regularly scheduled visits to the ring for record attempts is NOT part of the Corvette Teams mission statement.

They go on to say that the main reason for both the 2012 ZR1 and Z06 presence at the track was for engineering purposes and to gather additional data to fine tune and validate the PTM and MPSC tire, so take that for what it's worth. GM did not rent out the 'Ring for these events, and was sharing the track with other manufactures during their three day stay. Mero and Tadge said that they worked with the track officials to arrainge exclusive access for a single run at the end of the day (on two occasions) to collect data and finish their testing on the track without the influence of track traffic. It was on one of these single runs that the ZR1 ran the 7:19. Interestingly enough, Tadge and Mero said they could only arrainge one such lap with the Z06 when it was there, so the 7:22 was a one shot deal.

timvette7

It sounds you have some hard feelings toward the ZR1 because of the trouble you have had on the track and I understand but how is it that you can say the viper is a superior track car. What does it have that the ZR doesn't and the same for the LFA. Have you driven the LFA or the viper on the track for a long time. You might just see you would have worse problems with those cars as well. We always see the worst in the cars we own. I can't even imagine the maintence costs of that LFA. It probably makes Ferrari's look good.

FNBADAZ06

While I want to keep this on topic regarding the interview, the Viper ACR IS a track version of the Viper model...it's mandate is to be an uncompromising, street legal, race version of the Viper. The Viper-X takes it even further, but is not street legal for use in the U.S.

The current interations of the ZR1 and Z06, while track capable, are not dedicated track cars, and as such have chassis engineering compromise to make it a comfortable, and capable, street car.
The only thing you have that is comparable to the ACR and ACR-X packages offered in the Viper line-up would be a Katech or Callaway Z06-RR track version of the Corvette.

JDRacing

I agree with Corey about the astounding nature of these accomplishments.

And don't underestimate the effect of the aero packages on these cars. As someone who SCCA races a high downforce car regularly, the effect on lap times from the ability to increase overall downforce and tune front/rear car balance cannot be overstated. The car in my avatar is absolutely undrivable without the front splitter, and more importantly, the rear wing. It isn't a matter of just a few seconds per lap; it's a matter of skating off the track at the first fast corner without the downforce generated by those appendages.

Certainly the effect of 1500 pounds of downforce on the 825 pound car in my avatar is much, much greater than even the equivalent amount of downforce on a 3500 pound car. But even a few hundred pounds of extra downforce on a heavier car can make a huge difference in its balance and grip. Look at the amount of oversteer/loose/slide (all mean the same thing) Jim Mero is dealing with all the way around the track on the YouTube video. Now imagine that being reduced by even 10-20% by the addition of an effective splitter and wing producing perhaps 400 or more pounds of downforce, tuned for the best balance available. It's not hard to imagine a reduction of lap times by many seconds around a 13+ mile track.

Personally, I have no desire to drive around on the street with a wing hanging off the back of my car, which really doesn't significantly increase downforce until probably 80+ mph (just a guess). And unless I'm driving on a track, I don't want the wing pushing the car into the ground at highway speeds anyway. All this would do is decrease gas mileage, make the tires wear out more quickly, put unnecessary strain and wear on components like wheel bearings, CV joints, suspension pieces, etc., all so I could claim to be able to go 10-15 seconds faster on a track in Germany I'll never take the Vette to. (If I'm ever going to get an opportunity to drive the 'Ring, I'll take the race car, thank you).

Application is everything. Good for Chrysler and Lexus for designing an application-specific car to achieve these remarkable results. I don't think I would enjoy it as much as the ZR1 on a thousand mile vacation, though.

timvette7

Thanks for the info JD

FNBADAZ06

Tadge and Mero also said as much in the interview, and even went so far as to say that it is one of the reasons why Mero drove the car instead of one of the factory race car drivers. The factory race drivers are so accustomed to having the big downforce and grip associated with the aero and race tires in the race Vette's that they have a bit of a problem driving the production cars at the 10/10th on a track like the 'Ring.

It would probably take an attempt by the Callaway-Europe division and a Callaway C6 Z06-RR, supported by a chassis tech and race driver familiar with the 'Ring to equal or best the ACR's time.

Here's the Z06-RR owned by one of the Germany based CF members who tracks his car often...







http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ay-z06-rr.html

JDRacing

Interesting and thanks for the information. I haven't had a chance to read the interview yet, but will do so.

FNBADAZ06

Yep.....they speak very briefly about the difficulties Tom Wallace and Jan Magnussen (in 2008 ?) had with driving the car(s) at the 'Ring.

I wish it was on-line somewhere for others to read.

QUIKAG

I LOVE my ZR1. I am a bit disappointed it got hot at the track session, but I was wailing on 638hp for 20 minutes in 100F heat on a track without long straights to cool it back down. It was pretty brutal, so I understand.

I plan to keep my ZR1 and I plan to keep tracking it. I may not track it when it's 100F out at MSR, but otherwise, it's party time.

The '09/'10 Viper ACR has better aero and does a better job of controlling engine heat (confirmed with Viper owners). It's also faster pretty clearly stock v. stock to a ZR1 because it's a dedicated track car model that can be driven on the street whereas a ZR1 is a street car that just happens to very good on the track.

JDRacing summarizes the other reasons for why the Viper ACR is an overall superior track car.

The LFA I have no experience with and most all of us won't. It's a $400k Toyota exercise. The time the Nurburgring edition laid down proves it has a superior overall track set-up to a stock ZR1. It should for the 4x multiple in price. I also wouldn't want to own one, unless someone gave it to me and agreed to pay for maintenance/upkeep.

vetteuphoria

Appreciate the heads up to what appears to be an interesting article.

Thought these statements of yours--with which I agree-- were worth repeating to help keep things in perspective:

And also from QUIKAG