[ZR1] Lords of the Ring....ZR1/Z06 Nurburgring interview
09-15-2011, 02:45 PM
#41
One of the surprises I had when I moved to a high downforce car on the track(Chevy engined!) is how much the downforce helped on high speed braking. I had only thought of the cornering improvement before then.
09-15-2011, 08:23 PM
#42
All the bandwagon LFA fans that popped up during the short time it had the record got very annoying. But I'm sure Lexus leadership must be pissed because the Nurburging Edition LFA isn't even on sale yet and the marketing is all about Nurburgring superiority. 
Hope they didn't already ship the LFA out of Germany because looks like they need to turn back around and get back to work -- Team SRT just set the bar really high (using an "old" 2010 model).
Hope they didn't already ship the LFA out of Germany because looks like they need to turn back around and get back to work -- Team SRT just set the bar really high (using an "old" 2010 model).Do you think it will take a lot of work? I'd wager a set of Cup tires would gain back that 2s and then some.
If you watch a recent youtube video posted of the 2012 ZR1 vs the LFA on the nurburgring the ZR stays neck and neck with the LFA and even pulls at times until 4 minutes into the run then the LFA starts to leave the vette. It just don't make sense to me. As far as nurburgring edition LFA and viper ACR, what makes them those editions. I mean what is the difference in a nurburgring edition and a non nurburgring edition ( Brakes, horspower, gearing, aero etc.) I am not trying to be a smartbutt, just trying to understand. The vette should be faster on paper.
The difference between the Nur Spec car and the standard one is listed in this article. Pay careful attention to how these changes help make the car faster (it's about confidence):
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...ackage/258962/
And you read that right. Lexus let journalists take this car for unchaperoned, unfettered laps of the Nordschleife.
09-15-2011, 10:47 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
Here We Go Again!
The LFA has a Le Mans Driver...Aero Tweaked...Fiber...Extra...! 
Tweak up the ZR1, put Magnussen in it, and save a bunch of cash!
Tweak up the ZR1, put Magnussen in it, and save a bunch of cash!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 09-16-2011 at 01:16 PM.
09-16-2011, 03:44 PM
#46
Team Owner
09-17-2011, 12:50 PM
#50
V10LEE
09-17-2011, 01:14 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
He was scared to death!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zbv9Zbv850
No race TC mode, no Cup tires...if someone dolled the ZR1 up with ACR stuff and put a professional race car driver at the helm there OBVIOUSLY isn't any reason why it couldn't match the Viper's ACRs new time!
Thanks ACR for proving that, I was thinking that setup should net the obvious mid teens before the 7:19 stock time happened! It's obvious!
Furthermore, the GM active suspension does a lot to pacify all drivers!
It isn't your old c6Z06 anymore!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 09-17-2011 at 01:47 PM.
09-17-2011, 02:58 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Here's the direct quote of the question, and subsequent answers by Tadge and Jim....
VM: Why do you put an in-house engineer in the driver seat instead of one of your highly qualified Corvette Racing drivers?
Mero: The fastest guys in the 'Ring are not the guys who are the fastest drivers in general; it's the guys who have the most laps on the 'Ring. We've had [Corvette Racing's] Jan Magnussen at Nurburgring for us in the past, but he doesn't have the time in his schedule to commit to two to three weeks of continuous running on that track to learn the sweet spot of every corner and the sweet spot of whatever car he's driving in that corner. It takes 100 laps, maybe more, to find the perfect setting, the perfect point to accelerate, and where you want the car rotated in each corner. Those guys just don't have the time to commit to doing it.
Juechter: Corvette Racing's drivers are accustomed to cars with massive downforce. Taking a production car that's realistically tuned primarily for street driving and taking it at its limit around the 'Ring is a specialized skill. Like Jim says, it takes a lot of laps to learn not just that track, but-also that car on the track.
Another reason we use Jim is that he's the guy who has to balance all the performance attributes of the chassis—both track and street. You get a professional race car driver there who's used to dictating how he wants the car set up and that's fine for the track, but the Nurburgring [is one of Corvette's testbeds] for tuning that eventually goes out on the street and lives in the real world.
Mero: Give a guy a couple thousand pounds of downforce and slicks, and then stick him in a car with no downforce and full-treaded tires, and he struggles for an awful long time, like Jan Magnussen did in 2008. We have an issue with a lot of guys—prior Corvette Chief Engineer Tom Wallace being another one. It took us a lot of trips to get him comfortable in a ZR1 because he's used to massive downforce and slicks. Take that all away, and it's a whole new learning curve for him.
Juechter: And it's nothing against the professional race car drivers. Jan Magnussen—even when we're hanging around other professional race drivers—they talk about him with reverence. So we're not in any way trying to diminish those guys' capabilities. It's just a matter of getting used to that kind of vehicle on that track.
VM: Why do you put an in-house engineer in the driver seat instead of one of your highly qualified Corvette Racing drivers?
Mero: The fastest guys in the 'Ring are not the guys who are the fastest drivers in general; it's the guys who have the most laps on the 'Ring. We've had [Corvette Racing's] Jan Magnussen at Nurburgring for us in the past, but he doesn't have the time in his schedule to commit to two to three weeks of continuous running on that track to learn the sweet spot of every corner and the sweet spot of whatever car he's driving in that corner. It takes 100 laps, maybe more, to find the perfect setting, the perfect point to accelerate, and where you want the car rotated in each corner. Those guys just don't have the time to commit to doing it.
Juechter: Corvette Racing's drivers are accustomed to cars with massive downforce. Taking a production car that's realistically tuned primarily for street driving and taking it at its limit around the 'Ring is a specialized skill. Like Jim says, it takes a lot of laps to learn not just that track, but-also that car on the track.
Another reason we use Jim is that he's the guy who has to balance all the performance attributes of the chassis—both track and street. You get a professional race car driver there who's used to dictating how he wants the car set up and that's fine for the track, but the Nurburgring [is one of Corvette's testbeds] for tuning that eventually goes out on the street and lives in the real world.
Mero: Give a guy a couple thousand pounds of downforce and slicks, and then stick him in a car with no downforce and full-treaded tires, and he struggles for an awful long time, like Jan Magnussen did in 2008. We have an issue with a lot of guys—prior Corvette Chief Engineer Tom Wallace being another one. It took us a lot of trips to get him comfortable in a ZR1 because he's used to massive downforce and slicks. Take that all away, and it's a whole new learning curve for him.
Juechter: And it's nothing against the professional race car drivers. Jan Magnussen—even when we're hanging around other professional race drivers—they talk about him with reverence. So we're not in any way trying to diminish those guys' capabilities. It's just a matter of getting used to that kind of vehicle on that track.
09-17-2011, 03:18 PM
#53
Drifting
Thanks for posting that, FNBADAZ06. All of it rings so true. Until you've felt a car pushed into the ground through a 120 mph sweeper, or driven two cars back to back, one with more wing/downforce dialed in and one with less, it's really tough to understand and appreciate what they're saying.
If Jan Magnussen's race car has too much oversteer, they tweak it to move the balance rearward (through any of a number of means of doing so, both aero and suspension) to his liking, and he goes faster. If Jim Mero's ZR1 has too much oversteer on the 'Ring, he pretty much just deals with it, turning a 7:19 in the process. And then you start to appreciate how good a driver he really is.
If Jan Magnussen's race car has too much oversteer, they tweak it to move the balance rearward (through any of a number of means of doing so, both aero and suspension) to his liking, and he goes faster. If Jim Mero's ZR1 has too much oversteer on the 'Ring, he pretty much just deals with it, turning a 7:19 in the process. And then you start to appreciate how good a driver he really is.
09-17-2011, 03:18 PM
#54
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Hopefully this doesn't infringe on a copy right, but here's the entire article scanned from the magazine.
I don't care how fast the viper ACR is (and it is a rocket), there will never be a Viper parked in my garage. Too many better choices in my opinion.
09-17-2011, 03:59 PM
#56
Le Mans Master
It's Obvious!
Yes, but, it seems the Japaneze do it all, and that really has been my point! 
and
"10-2008"
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...722-4-lap-time
"Juechter claimed after the first record lap that there was more performance left in the ZR-1, and Magnussen's lap seems to have proved it. Even more speed could be extracted, but that would likely also require setup changes. As it stands, the ZR-1 was tuned in development to provide a very fast but still comfortable compromise position. If the car had been built exclusively for the track, like many supercars, the ride quality would have suffered too much for daily liveability, something that is a real consideration in a supercar as affordable as the ZR-1."
IT'S OBVIOUS(10 seconds to find this)!
and
"10-2008"
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...722-4-lap-time
"Juechter claimed after the first record lap that there was more performance left in the ZR-1, and Magnussen's lap seems to have proved it. Even more speed could be extracted, but that would likely also require setup changes. As it stands, the ZR-1 was tuned in development to provide a very fast but still comfortable compromise position. If the car had been built exclusively for the track, like many supercars, the ride quality would have suffered too much for daily liveability, something that is a real consideration in a supercar as affordable as the ZR-1."
IT'S OBVIOUS(10 seconds to find this)!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 09-17-2011 at 04:26 PM.
09-17-2011, 04:29 PM
#57
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
With GM's winning ways in ALMS and other racing venues, there's no doubt they could offer a streetable "track edition" car if they wanted to, and be very competitive with the other manufactures that do.
GM seems to be content with the idea that if a potential Corvette buyer wants that type of car, they can drop their car off at Katech, LG, Callaway, etc., for those options.
09-17-2011, 07:31 PM
#59
Le Mans Master
Right!
Unfortunetly, GM doesn't offer a dedicated "track edition" of the C6, and while we saw a special "Z06X" version displayed at various car shows, it doesn't sound like GM is interested in offering such a car (at least, not at this time).
With GM's winning ways in ALMS and other racing venues, there's no doubt they could offer a streetable "track edition" car if they wanted to, and be very competitive with the other manufactures that do.
GM seems to be content with the idea that if a potential Corvette buyer wants that type of car, they can drop their car off at Katech, LG, Callaway, etc., for those options.
With GM's winning ways in ALMS and other racing venues, there's no doubt they could offer a streetable "track edition" car if they wanted to, and be very competitive with the other manufactures that do.
GM seems to be content with the idea that if a potential Corvette buyer wants that type of car, they can drop their car off at Katech, LG, Callaway, etc., for those options.
They know no matter what they furnish someone will end up having it spread all over their garage floor right away!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 09-18-2011 at 07:50 PM.
09-18-2011, 07:38 AM
#60
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: Smallingerland Friesland, Netherlands
Posts: 3,421
Received 39 Likes
on
27 Posts
(from another thread) So let me get this straight. In 2008, Viper hires Tom Cornell, who lives at the Nurburgring, and specializes at the Nurburgring racing Vipers. He runs a 7:22.4. Perhaps a few seconds left on the table. And suddenly the same car, maybe with some gear box ratio changes runs 10 seconds faster? That would be like Jan Mag. living at the ring for a year, practicing all the time, setting a lap, and 3 years later someone else bettering it by 10 seconds based just on pure talent. I think the whole thing is somewhat suspicious
