[ZR1] Road & Track - ZR1 vs. C6.R
03-04-2012, 01:47 PM
#21
Drifting
This was the best answer to my earlier why question.
So, my next question is how do you make the ZR1 PDE car outhandle a stock Z06 Z07 on tight courses without radical changes (roll cages, cutting half the car away, etc.) I have hard time seeing the ZR1 shed 100lb from the front. Would poly bushing do it? Hoosiers instead of Sport Cups do it?
Would using the Z06 springs benefit or hinder performance (with the MSRC)?
Since the Z07 could also use these "mods" no need for comparisons.
So, my next question is how do you make the ZR1 PDE car outhandle a stock Z06 Z07 on tight courses without radical changes (roll cages, cutting half the car away, etc.) I have hard time seeing the ZR1 shed 100lb from the front. Would poly bushing do it? Hoosiers instead of Sport Cups do it?
Would using the Z06 springs benefit or hinder performance (with the MSRC)?
Since the Z07 could also use these "mods" no need for comparisons.
I went the drop spindle route as I do not want to ditch the MSRC shocks (which I really like) for coilovers (plus it's tied into the whole traction control system etc. so removing them opens up another can of worms) and wanted to lower the car while maintaining the correct suspension geometry. I'm leaving the stock transverse leaf springs that came on my car to start with but realize that down the road as I start progressing to higher grip slick type tires that spring/shock rates might become an issue. At that point I'll start playing around with stiffer leaf springs but my concern is that then I'll end up oversprung and under damped. The MSRC shocks are computer controlled electronically so theoretically they should be able to have virtually any type of dampening curve that you want. So at that point it's going to come down to figuring out a way to crack the MSRC shock control module and see if it is possible to reprogram or alter the damping rates on the shocks which should be a neat project if it can be figured out.
03-04-2012, 02:03 PM
#22
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This was run on the 1.5 mile Radical Loop not the 2.2 mile track that is used for the driving school. You can see that there isn't even really much of a straight on this track. The HP advantage of the ZR1 provides no help on this track and the ~100 lb weight penalty, now that the Z07 has the same brakes, tire, suspension, and PTM, is what is hurting the time. I would expect the Z07 to be the better autocross car (this track is more like an autocross) and the ZR1 to be the better true road course car. If they had run this on the 2.2 mile track good chance the ZR1 would have come out on top.
That explains it. I knew something was amiss.
03-04-2012, 02:38 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
A set of tires with more grip, something like the hoosiers, would most likely do it. If you are talking "track only" use then go ahead and get a set of true slicks as they would be good for ~3sec even on a small track like the radical loop. Another easy thing to do would be to lower the car, that alone may be enough to make up the difference. Even something as simple as a track based suspension alignment could do it.
03-04-2012, 02:47 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
Since my Carbon is basically the same as the ZR1 I can tell you what the shop is doing to my car as far as suspension/brake related changes to improve handling are concerned. What was put on are Pfadt competition HR sway bars, Pfadt pillow blocks, Pfadt camber kit, Pfadt poly bushing kit, LG drop spindles, spindle ducts, steel braided brake lines, AP600 brake fluid and more aggressive alignment. I'm also trying to lighten the car as much as possible without "stripping it", so swapping heavier weight parts i.e. batter for lighter ones, putting on a carbon rear hatch etc. etc.
I went the drop spindle route as I do not want to ditch the MSRC shocks (which I really like) for coilovers (plus it's tied into the whole traction control system etc. so removing them opens up another can of worms) and wanted to lower the car while maintaining the correct suspension geometry. I'm leaving the stock transverse leaf springs that came on my car to start with but realize that down the road as I start progressing to higher grip slick type tires that spring/shock rates might become an issue. At that point I'll start playing around with stiffer leaf springs but my concern is that then I'll end up oversprung and under damped. The MSRC shocks are computer controlled electronically so theoretically they should be able to have virtually any type of dampening curve that you want. So at that point it's going to come down to figuring out a way to crack the MSRC shock control module and see if it is possible to reprogram or alter the damping rates on the shocks which should be a neat project if it can be figured out.
I went the drop spindle route as I do not want to ditch the MSRC shocks (which I really like) for coilovers (plus it's tied into the whole traction control system etc. so removing them opens up another can of worms) and wanted to lower the car while maintaining the correct suspension geometry. I'm leaving the stock transverse leaf springs that came on my car to start with but realize that down the road as I start progressing to higher grip slick type tires that spring/shock rates might become an issue. At that point I'll start playing around with stiffer leaf springs but my concern is that then I'll end up oversprung and under damped. The MSRC shocks are computer controlled electronically so theoretically they should be able to have virtually any type of dampening curve that you want. So at that point it's going to come down to figuring out a way to crack the MSRC shock control module and see if it is possible to reprogram or alter the damping rates on the shocks which should be a neat project if it can be figured out.
03-04-2012, 03:29 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
After looking at the track configuration, yes, indeed, the 1.5 mile circuit has 10 turns, no wonder lightness prevails over hp.
03-04-2012, 03:46 PM
#26
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That's why they call it a race car
Build a race engine with much lighter internal rotating mass, bring up the compression with improved heads, coupled with more favorable gearing, and when you leave the line, my money will be on the race engine every time.... I have a small block built the same way, and every race it will mow down a another bike with a 100 more dyno hp..... If everyone had a chance at the wheel of both cars, everyone would say the race vette feels faster....
03-04-2012, 03:50 PM
#27
_"SCOTT"_
Let's see if someone can analyze the times on certain sections of this track and find where it doesn't make a bit of sense.
There's certain areas of the course where the Z "should" win over the ZR but doesn't and vice versa...(or is it just me???)
There's certain areas of the course where the Z "should" win over the ZR but doesn't and vice versa...(or is it just me???)
03-04-2012, 06:52 PM
#28
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Build a race engine with much lighter internal rotating mass, bring up the compression with improved heads, coupled with more favorable gearing, and when you leave the line, my money will be on the race engine every time.... I have a small block built the same way, and every race it will mow down a another bike with a 100 more dyno hp..... If everyone had a chance at the wheel of both cars, everyone would say the race vette feels faster....
03-04-2012, 07:13 PM
#29
Drifting
Yes you're right but horspower is still horspower and with the horspower difference I believe the ZR1 should win the drag race but I don't know for sure because of the gearing and weight difference. It would be fun to see a C6R and Kyle on drag radials go at it on a good prep drag strip. I would put my money on Kyle and the ZR1.
03-04-2012, 09:52 PM
#31
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I didn't see any other link besides the one that is posted on the first thread. You do know what Kyle has run with drag radials don't you ( 10.33). I just don't know if a C6r could turn that kind of time but it would be interesting to see the ETs that the C6R runs.
03-05-2012, 02:59 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
Magazines....sigh
And yet sadly even though both cars are as fast as anything out there they will still lose all the magazine comparisons to slower cars because...what is it this week, seats again? or maybe 'steering feel' or wait, tires.
I reread that Lightning Lap article where the Z kills every other car including the 458 Italia and GT3 by a mile and sets a figure 8 record and they still dog it to like 6th place.
I like what the editor of that Vette magazine said concerning the magazines complaints about seats and such making it lose comparisons. I mean if they were so bad wouldn't it have affected the performance and then the car wouldn't have been the fastest? It's a good column, worth reading.
Seems I am not the only person who has gotten sick of the overwhelming euro centric bias of most car mags. If it's made in the US apparently all praise must come with a caveat....and points subtracted. ( I mean really how many times in that one article did they complain about the tires (cheater race tires they called them) even though the Porsche had the same ones with 3 more grooves. But were it is awesome, they call the vette a sham. Ah, well.
I reread that Lightning Lap article where the Z kills every other car including the 458 Italia and GT3 by a mile and sets a figure 8 record and they still dog it to like 6th place.
I like what the editor of that Vette magazine said concerning the magazines complaints about seats and such making it lose comparisons. I mean if they were so bad wouldn't it have affected the performance and then the car wouldn't have been the fastest? It's a good column, worth reading.
Seems I am not the only person who has gotten sick of the overwhelming euro centric bias of most car mags. If it's made in the US apparently all praise must come with a caveat....and points subtracted. ( I mean really how many times in that one article did they complain about the tires (cheater race tires they called them) even though the Porsche had the same ones with 3 more grooves. But were it is awesome, they call the vette a sham. Ah, well.
03-05-2012, 02:10 PM
#38
Melting Slicks<br><img src="/forums/images/ranks/3k-4k.gif" border="0">
Wasn't the Xtrac mentioned as ~$70,000? I thought Lou was selling the EMCO for around $25,000.
