EdwardETraylorIII

Recently there has been a lot of discussion on whether or not Octane Boosters work. Some have mentioned Klotz, Torco and others.

A little background:

Not so long ago I challenged the vendor/manufacturer to prove their claims. The terms: I would buy a large quantity of the product AND pay for the testing IF they could produce third-party (a third-party we BOTH agreed was third-party and not affiliated with the manufacturer/vendor) verification of appreciable octane boost (their claims).. "Appreciable" is defined as a bump from 93 Octane to say 98 Octane... 100 Octane... Or more (at a reasonable mixture).

The challenge wasn't accepted.

In a recent thread Jeff @ TPE said he'd accept the challenge because he's already had the verification performed. Naturally, I said, "By all means, post the results!"

Jeff,

This was posted int he other thread. I'm still waiting to see scans of the third party verification (proof) that it appreciably raises AKI (R+M/2) Octane.

I look forward to you posting this information so that these ancient myths/rumors can FINALLY be put to rest!

(Taken from the other thread

Hopefully this thread will FOREVER put to rest the question of whether or not this stuff works!

Jutskin

As I stated in the last high octane thread I used a leaded product, Kemco, allot of it, that worked in my older Chevelle for sure. My 800HP 540 could not be hammered without it ....for sure....and I only used about 1.5 to 2 ounzes per gallon. What made it cool, still does, is that I can have guaranteed performance/insurance in a small jug in the trunk...critical stuff.... Too bad leaded Kemco is not compatible with LS motors.


Torco & Koltz on the other hand are non leaded....proof of their effectiveness I would like to see as well.
Maybe next time on a dyno one of us can do a before and after type test with a close eye on AF ratios and horsepower changes. It would be really interesting and highly informative. To me the question would be why wouldn't the octane dealers do and publish such a test. Proof positive it could be .......along with more sales for sure with positive results. I would order some.
Thanx Ed for challenging.

kumar75150

Good timing dude. I just started researching high octane fuels and octane boosters today.

Mr.Big

Jasil

There is more to suppressing detonation then octane rating alone. Look at E85 a much lower octane rating then VP116, but there was minimal power difference only 1 more degree of timing could be run on a 850whp EVO 2.0L. The tuner is a guru in the Rx-7, Supra, Evo world and if given any choice of fuel he picks E98 over any pure race gas.

I know for a fact Torco works. I ran 28psi on the stock turbo and would see 2 counts of knock at shift change and the top of 4th. 16oz of Torco and no knock anywhere.

I think meth is the way to go in the end or straight race gas.......I do put some faith in octane boosters.

White_Lightning

I ran torco in my supra and so did several of my friends with single turbo .. i know that on 22# on my stock twins, my timing, AF, EGTs and HP to the wheels was identical on C16 as it was on 93 octane with torco. I have seen several single turbo supras running 93+ torco and putting down 700+ rwhp.

wooden

as I have stated befor I ran a 1 liter 3 cylinder 4 stroke with 25 lbs of boost and nitrous, pushing 400 hp. on 91 pump fuel mixed with torco and the new owner is still running the motor, this was in a snowmobile climbing mountains in deep powder at inclines up 60 degrees holding it wide open for 90 to 120 seconds at times. this is about as hard as you can push a motor, for me real world experience means alot more than some controllered test in a lab. I will continue to use it, and no I am not a vendor and I am not associated with any vendors, I just buy from who ever will give me the best price.

NemesisC5

I know someone who works at the "third party" verification lab that is a member on this forum but I will not mention their name. The effect of the Torco in this case is real, raising the R+M/2 otherwise known as pump octane. I cannot speak factually about Klotz but I am fairly certain it is just as effective given the reputation of the vendors that promote it.

As far as performance gain from "higher octane alone", there is none. Higher octane actually slows down the speed of the flame front and can decrease power if no predetonation was present. The benefit comes when more timing advance can benefit power but cannot be added due to factors causing predetonation (higher compression, higher combustion chamber temps, and I'm sure a few factors that I am unaware of). Every combination has a "mean best timing" (MBT), that is the degrees of timing advance that highest power is made. Once you cross this threshhold (MBT), the power will start falling as the explosion in the cylinder is trying to drive the piston down as it is still traveling upward. I watched my car on the dyno as timing was added and going from 21* to 22* it saw no increase so we put it back to 21*. There was no knock or knock retard present, but a point had been reached that my combination made it's most power.

Meth/Alky raises the octane but also cools the intake charge, which a cooler charge by itself usually raises power. The only reason I run Torco or octane booster in general is so that I have somewhat of a "safety net" in the case of my meth/alky system failing to operate. I know that you can configure your setup with your IAT sensor located post meth/alky injection nozzle so that timing is pulled in case a certain temperature threshold is exceeded, but mine is not yet setup like that...YET.

Back to octane. I recently read an article on the new 2010 Camaro and the "LLT" six cylinder powerplant available. GM actually recommends 87 octane because that is what the engine was designed for and will make best power and fuel economy with. This six cylinder engine is direct injected with a Compression Ratio of 11.4:1 Below is a good read on the 2010 Camaro with some mention of the V6 and some of the technology it employs

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...v6_engine.html

EdwardETraylorIII

That's great! They have nothing to hide if the product is advertised - so hopefully THEY WILL POST WITH DEFINITIVE PROOF in this thread. It's not hard to scan a certified and verified document.

Again, I'd sure like to see REAL PROOF of these claims!

I think anyone curious enough to be in this section of the forum AND read this thread probably understands the basics... Octane does not automatically equal more power. Roger that.

A lot of us are set up in this fashion AND want to run a little more boost even with our existing meth setup. That's why I'm hopeful that Torco is the real deal. Hopefully evidence that should be easily verifiable will be posted in this thread!


Hey, that's really neat! I wish my Z06 ran on 87!

PowerLabs

ED,

You know the proper way of verifying octane level is with a CRF engine, so I imagine you are already familiar with this test?

NemesisC5

NemesisC5

This method, lab & equipment are where the Torco was tested.

Saybolt LP, a division of Core Laboratories, performed a certified, independent octane test on samples of three different types of octane boosters we prepared. Each sample, along with the base fuel, was tested for research octane number (RON) and motor octane number (MON), as prescribed by ASTM Method D-2699 and D-2700, respectively.

DOUG @ ECS

Well I have not had any lab testing done myself, but I can definately say from years of dyno tuning everyday that it does work. However, one thing I always say to our customers is that it is a great way to kick the octane up for a street car, but our road racers and hard core drag guys are told to run race fuel. Reason being that I cannot see the fuel being 100% properly mixed with the octane booster when your adding a qt or two to 18+ gallons in two tanks.

0Arun@ChampionMotors

I agree with Doug here 100%, It's great for the street car that doesn't get tracked. For the hardcore guys who will punish there car at the track, there is no substitute for some good C12 or C16.

It does not take much of a rattle to put to rest an aluminum block.

EdwardETraylorIII

Sam,

I remember reading that a while back - If I recall, they saw decent results with 30% toluene.

tail_lights

PowerLabs

Yes, 30% Toluene, which amounts to over 5 Gallons in a full Corvette tank, brought 91 up to 95.5. Sounds good, but who wants to drive around with 5 gallons of Toluene in their trunk? Also, the usual price for Toluene at a paint store is $15/Gallon so this is completely unrealistic.

"NOS Racing Formula", which is basically 12fl oz of MMT, brought 16 gallons of California 10% Ethanol 91 Octane gas up to 93.7 Octane
There is your "undeniable proof". Does it work? Yes, certainly. Will it perform miracles? Absolutely not. On a second, unrelated note, I don't quite follow where your skepticism regarding octane boosters comes from; you realize that octane boosting compounds are used in *all Gasoline fuels* to reach their target octane level, correct? Even straight up pump gas has octane boosting compounds in it
I would trust a bottle of MMT based octane booster (Torco, Koltz, et all) to allow me to run my 93 octane tune on 91 octane gas. That's about it. You get diminishing returns with higher octane fuels, so while 91 will go up almost 3 points, 93 may only go up 1.5 or so, and a second bottle will not double the gains either...

EdwardETraylorIII

You answered your own question with your question.

My skepticism stems from Torco and Klotz claiming that a mixture of 32 Oz in 10 gallons of 93 Octane will result in 100+ Octane (R+M/2). Every test I've seen, science and chemistry (as I understand them) and common sense says this is impossible. Others here (and elsewhere) tell me I'm wrong. I want proof.

I'm not asking for much. I'm asking for ONE PERSON to post proof of their claims.

If this were ANY other subject, we'd have all kinds of math, dyno graphs, plots, charts, dissertations, etc.... backing up their claims.

I see no empirical third-party verification of said claims.

I REALLY HOPE I'm wrong and someone can post the documentation to prove it! I'd really like to have homebrew 100+ Octane so I can up the boost another PSI or two!

gtovan

The concluding paragraph from the article on Octane Boosters (which contain up to 99% toluene):

"Toluene-laden fuels burn slower and make less power on high-revving engines. So much in fact that much of the air/fuel mixture is still burning as the charge exits through the exhaust valve. This is a sure way to destroy your emissions-control equipment and not pass smog. For these reasons, true race fuels don't just use toluene or other active ingredients to boost the octane. Instead they use better-refined hydrocarbon chains that raise octane while retaining optimal combustion characteristics."

Using a high octane unleaded race fuel either by itself or as mixture with pump gas would seem to be a much better solution if higher octane is required and optimal combustion characteristics and maximum horsepower are desired.

PowerLabs

Sure they don't mean 100RON?
That I could believe in.