TVS 2300 or Kenne Bell 2.8
01-14-2010, 03:23 AM
#1
TVS 2300 or Kenne Bell 2.8
So recently my long-time dream of owning a corvette has become a reality. Well mod fever has already taken over and I am looking for a supercharger kit. My question is what would you recommend between the TVS system and the Kenne Bell which looks like it will be released from TPE in the near future? Im leaning towards the KB because I have long term goals of making 800rwhp with a 402 but I have heard that this is not possible with the TVS without substantial upgrades to help with belt slip.
01-14-2010, 09:30 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
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So recently my long-time dream of owning a corvette has become a reality. Well mod fever has already taken over and I am looking for a supercharger kit. My question is what would you recommend between the TVS system and the Kenne Bell which looks like it will be released from TPE in the near future? Im leaning towards the KB because I have long term goals of making 800rwhp with a 402 but I have heard that this is not possible with the TVS without substantial upgrades to help with belt slip.
01-14-2010, 11:17 AM
#3
Former Vendor
Or why dont you go with a A&A kit? we could do a YSI on it for you and you could smash your 800 HP goal! no problems getting to that mark, no horrible heat soak from a KB. Dont get me wrong, we Sell a 2.8 kit for the C5 corvettes, and maggies also, but the A&A kit is the way to go IMHO! give us a shout with what ever you decided and we can help you out on getting what you need!
01-14-2010, 05:44 PM
#4
Thanks for the replies. I know that it would be easier to get to my goal with a centri but after reading through posts over the years on the forum I know that roots is what I want. I plan of doing the work myself, can anyone recommend a good place to get the TVS kit and some other supporting mods to go with it?
01-14-2010, 08:01 PM
#6
Pro
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Thanks for the replies. I know that it would be easier to get to my goal with a centri but after reading through posts over the years on the forum I know that roots is what I want. I plan of doing the work myself, can anyone recommend a good place to get the TVS kit and some other supporting mods to go with it?
It would help if we knew the are you live in.
What are your long term goals wite the car, street, Dragstrip, Road racing or a combo of all?
01-15-2010, 12:37 AM
#7
Racer
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The KB is a smaller and more efficient supercharger, but that is a bit of a moot point when you consider that they have been promising a kit for the C6 since 2005, and it has always been "right around the corner" but with no results. TPE has a kit I think, but I've never seen a car put down big power with it. The TVS kit is still a bit unproven at those big numbers, but at least there is a lot more support for it. The safest bet for 800RWHP today (as in, something that is tried and proven and has been done several times before with repeatable results) would be a good centrifugal or turbos.
01-15-2010, 03:16 AM
#8
Im in the Reno/Tahoe area of Nevada. Long term (in about a year) I want to do a 402 stroker and turn up the boost. Like I said I would like to be at the 800rwhp mark. Most of my driving will be on the street with an occasional trip to the dragstrip (a few times a year).
01-15-2010, 08:37 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
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Conversely, the Kenne Bell unit is a twin screw supercharger; the two different rotors compress air internally, so pressure is developed within the blower. Thermodynamically, this is MUCH more efficient. The efficiency really starts to manifest itself at higher pressure ratios (I.E. more boost), and the blower is physically smaller as well.
I've seen a few comparisons online but right now this chart is all I can dig up.
Please do remember though when comparing superchargers that the supercharger unit is a small factor in the overall kit. The world's best supercharger will still suck and perform terribly when paired up with a poor intercooler, poor intake system, inadequate belt routing, etc etc... Which is why my first comment was to wait untill someone actually has a proven kit out there, and not be a guinea pig.
I will add as a final note that Charlie from RPM motors gave me a ride in a C5Z06 car with a KB blower and it was absolutely INCREDIBLE and I will never forget it. The car felt like it had an 8 liter engine in it; instant, endless power. It was probably about as fast as my car is with a base A&A kit, but the low end torque was unbeatable; it had neck snapping acceleration the moment he hit the gas at 2200RPM in 4rth gear!
01-15-2010, 11:35 AM
#10
In very simple terms: The TVS supercharger is a much improved (4 lobe rotors as opposed to 3 lobes and a higher twist rate) roots blower, but it is still a roots blower, which means that all it does is move air from one side of the casing to the other; boost develops as that air packs up in the intake side of the engine and can't all go into the engine.
Conversely, the Kenne Bell unit is a twin screw supercharger; the two different rotors compress air internally, so pressure is developed within the blower. Thermodynamically, this is MUCH more efficient. The efficiency really starts to manifest itself at higher pressure ratios (I.E. more boost), and the blower is physically smaller as well.
I've seen a few comparisons online but right now this chart is all I can dig up.
Please do remember though when comparing superchargers that the supercharger unit is a small factor in the overall kit. The world's best supercharger will still suck and perform terribly when paired up with a poor intercooler, poor intake system, inadequate belt routing, etc etc... Which is why my first comment was to wait untill someone actually has a proven kit out there, and not be a guinea pig.
I will add as a final note that Charlie from RPM motors gave me a ride in a C5Z06 car with a KB blower and it was absolutely INCREDIBLE and I will never forget it. The car felt like it had an 8 liter engine in it; instant, endless power. It was probably about as fast as my car is with a base A&A kit, but the low end torque was unbeatable; it had neck snapping acceleration the moment he hit the gas at 2200RPM in 4rth gear!
Conversely, the Kenne Bell unit is a twin screw supercharger; the two different rotors compress air internally, so pressure is developed within the blower. Thermodynamically, this is MUCH more efficient. The efficiency really starts to manifest itself at higher pressure ratios (I.E. more boost), and the blower is physically smaller as well.
I've seen a few comparisons online but right now this chart is all I can dig up.
Please do remember though when comparing superchargers that the supercharger unit is a small factor in the overall kit. The world's best supercharger will still suck and perform terribly when paired up with a poor intercooler, poor intake system, inadequate belt routing, etc etc... Which is why my first comment was to wait untill someone actually has a proven kit out there, and not be a guinea pig.
I will add as a final note that Charlie from RPM motors gave me a ride in a C5Z06 car with a KB blower and it was absolutely INCREDIBLE and I will never forget it. The car felt like it had an 8 liter engine in it; instant, endless power. It was probably about as fast as my car is with a base A&A kit, but the low end torque was unbeatable; it had neck snapping acceleration the moment he hit the gas at 2200RPM in 4rth gear!
People dont realize how fun Kenne Bell's are untill you have driven or been in one
. Its a rush you will not forget!
01-15-2010, 04:27 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
In very simple terms: The TVS supercharger is a much improved (4 lobe rotors as opposed to 3 lobes and a higher twist rate) roots blower, but it is still a roots blower, which means that all it does is move air from one side of the casing to the other; boost develops as that air packs up in the intake side of the engine and can't all go into the engine.
Conversely, the Kenne Bell unit is a twin screw supercharger; the two different rotors compress air internally, so pressure is developed within the blower. Thermodynamically, this is MUCH more efficient. The efficiency really starts to manifest itself at higher pressure ratios (I.E. more boost), and the blower is physically smaller as well.
I've seen a few comparisons online but right now this chart is all I can dig up.
Please do remember though when comparing superchargers that the supercharger unit is a small factor in the overall kit. The world's best supercharger will still suck and perform terribly when paired up with a poor intercooler, poor intake system, inadequate belt routing, etc etc... Which is why my first comment was to wait untill someone actually has a proven kit out there, and not be a guinea pig.
I will add as a final note that Charlie from RPM motors gave me a ride in a C5Z06 car with a KB blower and it was absolutely INCREDIBLE and I will never forget it. The car felt like it had an 8 liter engine in it; instant, endless power. It was probably about as fast as my car is with a base A&A kit, but the low end torque was unbeatable; it had neck snapping acceleration the moment he hit the gas at 2200RPM in 4rth gear!
Conversely, the Kenne Bell unit is a twin screw supercharger; the two different rotors compress air internally, so pressure is developed within the blower. Thermodynamically, this is MUCH more efficient. The efficiency really starts to manifest itself at higher pressure ratios (I.E. more boost), and the blower is physically smaller as well.
I've seen a few comparisons online but right now this chart is all I can dig up.
Please do remember though when comparing superchargers that the supercharger unit is a small factor in the overall kit. The world's best supercharger will still suck and perform terribly when paired up with a poor intercooler, poor intake system, inadequate belt routing, etc etc... Which is why my first comment was to wait untill someone actually has a proven kit out there, and not be a guinea pig.
I will add as a final note that Charlie from RPM motors gave me a ride in a C5Z06 car with a KB blower and it was absolutely INCREDIBLE and I will never forget it. The car felt like it had an 8 liter engine in it; instant, endless power. It was probably about as fast as my car is with a base A&A kit, but the low end torque was unbeatable; it had neck snapping acceleration the moment he hit the gas at 2200RPM in 4rth gear!
01-15-2010, 07:43 PM
#13
Former Vendor
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St. Jude Donor '06 & '12
We've been doing C6 KB builds for around 16-18 months now. Contrary to popular beliefe the C6 kit is not a Unicorn. It actually exists.
Although it was originally as an in-house build kit only, we've been steadily working on the production kit for some time now. Its literlly right around the corner. As of this week, the only things that we are currently waiting on is the front gears, and rear inlets. The gears are in customs and should be released any day. We have 100 inlets coming, and should be here right as the middle of next week. But Jim Bell himself has been driving his 08 LS3 KB corvette since June 09. The car has already seen hundreds of dyno runs, and thousands of street miles.
Obviously there is a kit build time (ie..assembly) but that is only 3-7 days. A little longer if you want full polish.
The original kit that we had for the C5 had a horrible inlet restriction. Although we have surpassed 800rwhp on a few occasions, it was a real stretch. It pushed the kit pretty had. BUT....... It was not the head unit that was struggling. It was the inlet. Once the inlet was resolved, everything else worked just fine.
If you find yourself in Vegas, swing on by. We always have 1 or 2 KB Corvettes in the shop.
If you are looking to have a shop install your kit, TPE is the leader in GM based KB cars. No one in the world has built more than us. We have built 4 of the 5 highest horsepower KB GM cars on record.
Heres a C6 we did. It had real low boost, and was built as a DD. The inagural drive was its 1800 mile drive home. It went flawlessly.
http://www.totalperformanceengineeri...ages.php?pID=7
Although it was originally as an in-house build kit only, we've been steadily working on the production kit for some time now. Its literlly right around the corner. As of this week, the only things that we are currently waiting on is the front gears, and rear inlets. The gears are in customs and should be released any day. We have 100 inlets coming, and should be here right as the middle of next week. But Jim Bell himself has been driving his 08 LS3 KB corvette since June 09. The car has already seen hundreds of dyno runs, and thousands of street miles.
Obviously there is a kit build time (ie..assembly) but that is only 3-7 days. A little longer if you want full polish.
The original kit that we had for the C5 had a horrible inlet restriction. Although we have surpassed 800rwhp on a few occasions, it was a real stretch. It pushed the kit pretty had. BUT....... It was not the head unit that was struggling. It was the inlet. Once the inlet was resolved, everything else worked just fine.
If you find yourself in Vegas, swing on by. We always have 1 or 2 KB Corvettes in the shop.
If you are looking to have a shop install your kit, TPE is the leader in GM based KB cars. No one in the world has built more than us. We have built 4 of the 5 highest horsepower KB GM cars on record.
Heres a C6 we did. It had real low boost, and was built as a DD. The inagural drive was its 1800 mile drive home. It went flawlessly.
http://www.totalperformanceengineeri...ages.php?pID=7
01-15-2010, 10:50 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
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If I am not looking for high boost but something safe like about 6psi, would you recommend a TVS2300 or KB?
Just to clear it up, right now I have a Vortech supercharger (kind like A&A) which was installed by Vortech, putting down 515rwhp, 465TQ at 6psi with a safe tune.
When I purchase GS, I would like to get something else but still want to keep it safe. I am having problem with traction now with what I currently have so not really looking to go crazy with the HP. Appreciate any help in making the decision.
I am not in a hurry to purchase the GS so I can wait if KB is intending to finally getting a kit together and not just continuing to string us along.
Just to clear it up, right now I have a Vortech supercharger (kind like A&A) which was installed by Vortech, putting down 515rwhp, 465TQ at 6psi with a safe tune.
When I purchase GS, I would like to get something else but still want to keep it safe. I am having problem with traction now with what I currently have so not really looking to go crazy with the HP. Appreciate any help in making the decision.
I am not in a hurry to purchase the GS so I can wait if KB is intending to finally getting a kit together and not just continuing to string us along.
01-16-2010, 01:19 AM
#16
I just came across the the new KB system on their website for the 2010 Camaro.
http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...aro/Camaro.htm
Does anyone know if this is basically the same system that will be used in the Corvette, specifically the head unit? It seems like there in a new "Liquid Cooled" unit available.
http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...aro/Camaro.htm
Does anyone know if this is basically the same system that will be used in the Corvette, specifically the head unit? It seems like there in a new "Liquid Cooled" unit available.
01-16-2010, 02:14 AM
#19
Racer
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In very simple terms: The TVS supercharger is a much improved (4 lobe rotors as opposed to 3 lobes and a higher twist rate) roots blower, but it is still a roots blower, which means that all it does is move air from one side of the casing to the other; boost develops as that air packs up in the intake side of the engine and can't all go into the engine.
Conversely, the Kenne Bell unit is a twin screw supercharger; the two different rotors compress air internally, so pressure is developed within the blower. Thermodynamically, this is MUCH more efficient. The efficiency really starts to manifest itself at higher pressure ratios (I.E. more boost), and the blower is physically smaller as well.
I've seen a few comparisons online but right now this chart is all I can dig up.
Please do remember though when comparing superchargers that the supercharger unit is a small factor in the overall kit. The world's best supercharger will still suck and perform terribly when paired up with a poor intercooler, poor intake system, inadequate belt routing, etc etc... Which is why my first comment was to wait untill someone actually has a proven kit out there, and not be a guinea pig.
I will add as a final note that Charlie from RPM motors gave me a ride in a C5Z06 car with a KB blower and it was absolutely INCREDIBLE and I will never forget it. The car felt like it had an 8 liter engine in it; instant, endless power. It was probably about as fast as my car is with a base A&A kit, but the low end torque was unbeatable; it had neck snapping acceleration the moment he hit the gas at 2200RPM in 4rth gear!
Conversely, the Kenne Bell unit is a twin screw supercharger; the two different rotors compress air internally, so pressure is developed within the blower. Thermodynamically, this is MUCH more efficient. The efficiency really starts to manifest itself at higher pressure ratios (I.E. more boost), and the blower is physically smaller as well.
I've seen a few comparisons online but right now this chart is all I can dig up.
Please do remember though when comparing superchargers that the supercharger unit is a small factor in the overall kit. The world's best supercharger will still suck and perform terribly when paired up with a poor intercooler, poor intake system, inadequate belt routing, etc etc... Which is why my first comment was to wait untill someone actually has a proven kit out there, and not be a guinea pig.
I will add as a final note that Charlie from RPM motors gave me a ride in a C5Z06 car with a KB blower and it was absolutely INCREDIBLE and I will never forget it. The car felt like it had an 8 liter engine in it; instant, endless power. It was probably about as fast as my car is with a base A&A kit, but the low end torque was unbeatable; it had neck snapping acceleration the moment he hit the gas at 2200RPM in 4rth gear!
01-16-2010, 02:37 AM
#20
Le Mans Master
It is showing it is much more efficent running near the same size pulley, making more boost with the same size pulley= more efficent.