ZZMike

RPM stated yesterday on their Facebook page that they are staying out of the 6L80E market until the tuning side catches up.

To the OP, I admire what you are working to accomplish, but I highly recommend directly communicating and working with vendors involved in C7 R&D to assist you with these goals. It will keep you from having to keep such a defensive posture in this thread and they are the best source to answer the "why" questions you have.

Rkreigh

take a look at what ECS is doing with the new Haltech ecm

it will take a long time to figure out how to integrate this with a C7, and the factory computer might need to be retained and just the "engine management" with a manifold with regular old injectors plumbed in, but where there cubic $$ there will be HP!!

the "limits" of the DI and fuel system on the C7 will take a while to figure out, and we can't use the camaro v6 which is a flex fuel system as a comparison.

I'm totally new to DI, but I'm betting that the C7 will hot rod just fine, it will just take some time

very interested in hearing more about who you are contacting to fab up the turbo headers.

my take on your project is this. get the Hard hot and cold pipes and turbo/intercooler situation sorted out and someone will soon step up with an answer to the tuning, even if it's just a big ol alchy injection kit.

the question is really how hard will the new ecm be to tune, and how difficult will it be to increase the flow on the new DI

joe11204

You made a blanket statement. You are now specifying for the first time the 6L80.

At one point RPM was rebuilding them, however at this time no.

joe11204

I've read through most of this thread. You did come to the right section for F/I information. Since there is some great talent, members and shops, available to you.

However, you seem to argue with people that are here to help with your questions. You keep challenging people with "hear-say" and "shop talk" which negates any assistance being offered as it is confrontational.

Streetk14

Honestly, I just keep repeating myself -- as you don't seem to actually read and/or comprehend what has been written. Anyway....

1) I personally have not upgraded my in-tank electric fuel pump, as there is no need at my power level. If I were looking to make much more power (or add more ethanol), I'd be looking to upgrade. Ethanol adds a lot of extra load on the fuel system as you probably know. As I mentioned before, just an electric in-tank pump upgrade has been proven to allow this engine to make double the stock rwhp with the stock high-pressure pump and injectors. How much you "gain" by upgrading the in-tank pump isn't really a realistic question, as most guys do this early on in their builds if looking to run a lot of E85. At that point, the stock turbos are the limiting factor.

2) The BMW N54 high-pressure fuel pump was designed to run around 3000 psi max pressure.

joe11204

I'll go out on a stretch in saying, I don't think you will be putting anyone corvette performance shops out of business by withholding your vast knowledge.

joe11204

Hey irun4cops,

Why don't you post up some hot chicks and chicks you found on google of hot chicks like in that ridiculous $360,000 Trade-my-boat for a Corvette Thread?

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/othe...our-vette.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-c...our-vette.html

irun4cops

which ever girl you dont think im friends with, know personally, and took pictures of... ill get you their facebook name, and youll see im the one who tagged the photos. theres not a fake girl on the thread, sorry boss.

irun4cops

or i can simply provide a pic of myself with them since i dated all of them. i kept myself out of the photos because i dont think guys like looking at me. but i can change that if youd like.

joe11204

You have a lot of time on your hands.

Slow day at daddy's dealership?

joe11204

Oh snap my bad !

Bro just seen pics of snoop dog in your montage. Didn't know I was conversing with the level of celebrity status that you are.

irun4cops

Thanks boss. Its actually a busy day in the bahamas. You should come sometime.

And the 2 businesses i started earn me more money than the 15 dealerships do. Come up with solutions that help humanity or high levels of government, and get more done to serve your fellow man from your cell phone and laptop than 99.999% of the rest of humanity produce while at their cubicles, and you'll find you'll also have the time to write on forums without being a jealous b****

irun4cops

few people are here to help. There's maybe 3.

The rest put in their 2 cents about why its never going to work... why i have no chance of succeeding... why i should just wait for big shops to do it... and when the big shops do show up, they simply say they have it figured out but must keep it all secret.

Meanwhile in the few weeks that we have been pursuing solutions, im pretty confident we have the higher flow injectors solved... spray patterns and all.

And then there are the super helpful people like yourself, who have no hesitations in admitting you cant help us solve a single problem, but are here to referee our grammar and conversations towards each other.

Thanks for stopping by and arguing about the automatic trans in the c7... and then complaining that I didnt specify which auto trans we are talking about... when there is only one auto trans offered in the c7. But you didnt realize which trans it was, but you have the guts to start conflicts about stuff that... im actually right about.

Ill call you in the future and send you a ton of business if you ever open a shop. Your help is priceless.

Thanks for pointing out my boat thread, still have that one and a couple more, and a cool girlfriend who enjoys toys as much as i do.

You've been very helpful thus far.

irun4cops

Instead of re-inventing the wheel... why not take chevy's word for it, keep their pattern and simply add 2 more holes to the original 6.

This means if the car has over 600hp worth of fuel, it is increased to almost 800hp worth of fuel, assuming the pump can keep up

My gut is that adding any more than 2 holes will limit the ability of the pump to keep up...

which then creates a whole new problem. You arent just running out of fuel... you are changing the spray pattern and atomization of the fuel because the fuel has to be slammed through these tiny holes at a high enough velocity. If we allow for too much overall flow, and thus less flow per hole, less pressure, and thus less velocity per hole... meaning improper atomization.

On the other side of these holes, is a metal ball attached to a piston... when that ball is against the holes, fuel is stopped.

When the ball is pulled back, fuel is released.

The pressure is created by the pump.

To create this solution, the original cap can have a single hole added to the middle... OR can have 2 holes added, (1 to the middle and 1 to the ring, but this entails having the original cap of the injector BEFORE they are laser drilled oem with only 6 holes.

In other words, the injector company CAN make these with ease, they simply add 2 more holes to the pattern, one in the pattern radius and one in the center of that pattern.

Its my belief that this is what the z06 or zr1 injectors will look like, as the injector pattern and spray properties and atomizations are not changed SO LONG AS THE EXTRA 33% of flow does not starve the pump of high enough pressures to maintain proper atomization characteristics.

As the other gentleman pointed out, a stronger feed pump in the tank can have big effects on the HPP showing gains IN PEAK VOLUME, while maintaining proper pressures. The in tank pump doesnt boost psi, but if the in tank pump doesnt flow enough fuel at pressure... then the HPP pump loses fuel to grab onto, and the it would appear the fuel system is limited into higher power ranges, when in fact it is only the in tank pump that needs modified. It is my belief this is what chevy will do on the z06 and zr1 as well... but i pray to god im wrong... ill explain why at the end.

While i was originally going to keep this secret, lets call a spade a spade, i dont have a micro laser laying in my garage... And while i could pursue all of this on my own (which i still may)

i figure ill just throw it out there since I know this is the only solution to upgrading the stock injectors.

1 hole in the middle isnt bad.... that still yeilds an extra 100hp worth of fuel aka 16+ percent to a suspected +600hp stock injector fuel system. But if one has access to the laser... they can most likely get access to undrilled tips... so they are better off simply starting from scratch and adding the 2 holes.

No shop informed me of this, i have supplied shops with this idea. Whoever does it first, bravo... im here to make the c7 work better.... not try to hoard all the advancement to say i did it all on my own.

Im the inventor, now someone take all the credit and get the things built. Thats fine by me, i just want a twin turbo c7 sooner than later.

Any suggestions on who could manufacture these if the stock injector producers are not interested in assisting... such information on other companies would be appreciated.

Dear chevy... demand a bigger pattern thus bigger injector on the z06 and zr1 so us upgrade guys have a bigger area to work with so we can get up to 1000+hp worth of fuel by adding more holes, and dont use what i pictured above as a solution, otherwise we are all going to hit a big brick wall at 800hp. Same rule applies to the HPP pump at the engine. Produce a better pump there instead of just put a higher pressure in tank feed pump. Otherwise, we once again... hit a brick wall that is hard to overcome.

Thank you... the idiot who always fixes fuel systems after large aftermarket shops give it their best shots.

To all of you who keep suggesting i use big shops... ive used them all... and the people who run them these days arent the brightest bulbs. Its a shame john lingenfelter died... theres very few who have the ability to learn at a very quick pace, aka... solve problems on my other vettes before i finally took the burden into my own hands and solved it myself.

My apologies for not naming the names of the individuals I cant stand, and turning the thread into a war.

Im here to solve problems... not be told i should be friends with people im not, who bring nothing more to the table than what i can accomplish on my own.

As far as the fuel injectors shown above, ive already got an interested company with the proper tooling who believes they can modify them. Now we are just checking out the patents to make sure we arent in any violation of producing the idea I have listed above. If that happens to be the case, my apologies if i keep them for myself while the rest of you keep bowing to the corvette gods who run a shop who understand he impossible art of creating 1000+hp cars like its rocket science... and you all end up empty handed until GM released the upgraded injectors they use on the z06 or zr1. Unfortunately for you guys... the z06 may not even need more holes than the stock 600hp injectors produce... and a zr1 model might not be out for another 3 years.

Goodluck everyone as you hope the other shops will solve it for you if you praise them and have faith.

The guys at redline are the only ones i feel are as aggressive and mentally apt to actually solving this problem, instead of bragging they have it solved as the rest of these ignorant shops are... and are hoping to hell some injector company solves it for them, as all these other shops who are making beyond bold promises... are doing currently.

The other people who can solve these problems... didnt spend time opening up a corvette shop... they got a job at lockheed, etc, and makes hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars per year.

No company should currently be advertising 1000hp on an LT1 as an upgrade possibility. No one.

And im half tempted to write the shops who do, a letter, and ask them for a returned letter of promise... with a due date attached of when they can have me a completed 1000hp or even a 800hp car for that matter... and then sue their a$$es for false advertising.

How the rest of you became so oblivious to reality, amazes me.

irun4cops

drilling the holes bigger, as suggested by most people i talk to... will result in improper atomization and thus failure as the charge won't mix properly.

As long as the radius is kept the same on pattern of holes, adding more holes of equal diameter to that pattern radius will maintain the same spray pattern, but add more volume of fuel to that exact pattern.

For the rest of you who disagree... do it another way. No need to argue here. Youve got your motor and ive got mine. May the best man win.

irun4cops

ill take it a step further... its the angle of attack that the holes are drilled... that have the greatest effect on the end result of the spray pattern.

So saying the radius of the pattern must remain constant... is not entirely true. But it certainly would not hurt.

Too large of a pattern radius, and the ball on the other side of the dimple, wont properly seal the holes closed. This leads to obvious failure.

So ideally... we need a bigger ball... bigger dimple... and this will allow for more surface area for more holes, of same tiny diameter as the stock holes on the stock injectors, that dont exceed the current angles of attack, thus keeping the spray pattern in its current cone... we also need well a higher VOLUME pump that can maintain the same PEAK psi as the stock pump while maintaining higher flow rates (double flow rates thus double holes, 10-12)... if we ATTEMPTED to approach 1000hp.

But hennessey already has all this figured out, manufactured, and if i send them a fat check, ill have my car back by november, and they wont hold my car hostage until they get it right... and they have this because advertisements and internet articles are everywhere

irun4cops

found a place with the laser capable of modifying the injectors with at least a single hole in the middle. I will see if I can get my hands on some uncut tips from someone on the inside of delphi somehow.

I plan to wait until chevy and delphi release the car and injectors... and make sure they arent offering anything high flow already that is simply being kept secret at this point. Otherwise, i will be rolling the dice with upgraded injectors by the second month of having my car, as the first month will be putting turbos on it and making sure the people who say they can tune it... can tune it.

In the meantime, i guess its a waiting game to see what dimensions the 6L80 trans is since its rumored that it is modified in shape from the c6 or c5, and if another trans can swap in with ease with some sort of "adapter"

Once these 2 problems are tackled, ill swap out the pickup pump in the tank and see what kind of gains are created on the peak power side, aka, when the system runs out of fuel.

Once i get to peak power, im sure we will back off the tune and waste gate springs a bit, that way i know the spray pattern is still in optimized form and full atomization is occurring...

...Since, at the point, the system starts to drop in pressure, its a simple fact that the atomization isnt occurring at optimal circumstances.

Last thing i have to double check is how the spray pattern changes if and when boost are coming in, and when exactly in the combustion cycle, does the injection occur, so i can try to make sure boosted air wont alter the spray pattern too too much.

irun4cops

If i was a betting man... id say there are going to be 2 shops with false advertisements out there... with 1000hp claims... begging me for the modified injectors.

The irony.