Do I really need to change plugs for a 75 shot?
05-24-2014, 08:46 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Do I really need to change plugs for a 75 shot?
I have a 13 Grand Sport and am finishing up my Zex Nitrous install. All I'm doing is a 75 h/p shot. It's just right for the 1/8 mile Stadium parking lot track here in San Diego. I ran the colder plugs in my C5 using the same kit. It just didn't run as well for normal use. I'd like to run my stock plugs. Is it a big deal to run stock plugs? Does anyone else run them?
05-24-2014, 09:53 PM
#3
Yes. TR6 is what you want but even if you stayed with a 5 heat range you would want a copper plug for nitrous not the factory iridium.
05-28-2014, 10:23 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
05-29-2014, 12:27 AM
#6
Drifting
You want a tr6IX and maybe a TR7IX if you can get it.
Copper plugs are not a good idea for these cars and ignition systems... i've used these plugs with nitrous w/o failing. I don't see why people are scared of iridium plugs.
Copper plugs are not a good idea for these cars and ignition systems... i've used these plugs with nitrous w/o failing. I don't see why people are scared of iridium plugs.
05-29-2014, 01:43 AM
#7
Drifting
Thread Starter
I ran the TR6 plugs in my last LS1. It ran sluggish and gas mileage dropped. I also tried the ZEX brand plugs that they recommended. The car ran terrible. Again, really poor idle. It felt like it was running on 7 cylinders. So why can't you run a TR6iX? Is it a better spark?
05-29-2014, 01:58 PM
#8
Race Director
I ran the TR6 plugs in my last LS1. It ran sluggish and gas mileage dropped. I also tried the ZEX brand plugs that they recommended. The car ran terrible. Again, really poor idle. It felt like it was running on 7 cylinders. So why can't you run a TR6iX? Is it a better spark?
05-30-2014, 03:09 PM
#10
I would suggest reading up on projected vs non-projected tips and also what the heat range does.
FYI, I have never ran a projected tip on n2o. And I would advise against it...always.
FYI, I have never ran a projected tip on n2o. And I would advise against it...always.
05-30-2014, 03:14 PM
#11
Good read about projected tip plugs ....
Here is a little info for ya.....
From NS website...
Spark Plugs and Nitrous Oxide:
What Works, What Doesn’t, and Why
Over the years there seems to have been a great amount of technical material written about the simple operation of a spark plug and what they can do in relation to the way an engine runs. There are a few basic characteristics about spark plugs that you need to know to make an intelligent choice about the correct spark plug for your application.
First, and most important; a spark plug must be of the correct design to operate within the environment of your engine not the other way around. This means that the spark plug has virtually no influence on how the engine burns fuel or runs in general. The correct spark plug will simply survive the conditions present in your engine. A spark plug must maintain a certain temperature to keep itself clean. The wrong heat range can cause an overheated plug or a fouled plug. The heat range refers to the temperature 0f the ceramic material surrounding the center electrode.
Lean air/fuel ratios are more difficult to light because there are less fuel molecules in the area of the plug gap when the plug is scheduled to fire; thus, protected nose plugs were designed for late-model lean-burn engines. Modern high-energy ignition also allowed larger plug gaps. All the while this was happening, something else happened. Something that no one seems to have really noticed as the real culprit when the issue of factory type plugs being used with nitrous comes up. We’d like to clue you in.
Quite often, a factory type, wide-gap projected plug will produce a misfire condition after only a few seconds of nitrous use. The misfire is not due to the heat range. The misfire occurs because the ground strap of the spark plug becomes a glowing ember because it is too long to dissipate the extra heat produced by a nitrous-accelerated burn condition. The correct fix for this phenomenon is to replace the plugs with one that has a shorter ground strap. By doing this, you will shorten the path for the heat being absorbed by the ground strap. You can use the same heat range, you just have to find a non-protected nose plus with a shorter and preferably thicker ground strop.
If you only change the heat range of the spark plug to a colder heat range, you may very well still have the misfire problem. Since the length 0f the ground strap is the cause the misFire, a colder spark plug may have the same length of ground strap as the hotter plug you replaced it with.
Spark plug gaps should generally be .030” to .035”. Never try to gap a plug designed for an .060” gap down to .035’. Find the correct non-projected nose plug designed for an .035” gap.
Here is a little info for ya.....
From NS website...
Spark Plugs and Nitrous Oxide:
What Works, What Doesn’t, and Why
Over the years there seems to have been a great amount of technical material written about the simple operation of a spark plug and what they can do in relation to the way an engine runs. There are a few basic characteristics about spark plugs that you need to know to make an intelligent choice about the correct spark plug for your application.
First, and most important; a spark plug must be of the correct design to operate within the environment of your engine not the other way around. This means that the spark plug has virtually no influence on how the engine burns fuel or runs in general. The correct spark plug will simply survive the conditions present in your engine. A spark plug must maintain a certain temperature to keep itself clean. The wrong heat range can cause an overheated plug or a fouled plug. The heat range refers to the temperature 0f the ceramic material surrounding the center electrode.
Lean air/fuel ratios are more difficult to light because there are less fuel molecules in the area of the plug gap when the plug is scheduled to fire; thus, protected nose plugs were designed for late-model lean-burn engines. Modern high-energy ignition also allowed larger plug gaps. All the while this was happening, something else happened. Something that no one seems to have really noticed as the real culprit when the issue of factory type plugs being used with nitrous comes up. We’d like to clue you in.
Quite often, a factory type, wide-gap projected plug will produce a misfire condition after only a few seconds of nitrous use. The misfire is not due to the heat range. The misfire occurs because the ground strap of the spark plug becomes a glowing ember because it is too long to dissipate the extra heat produced by a nitrous-accelerated burn condition. The correct fix for this phenomenon is to replace the plugs with one that has a shorter ground strap. By doing this, you will shorten the path for the heat being absorbed by the ground strap. You can use the same heat range, you just have to find a non-protected nose plus with a shorter and preferably thicker ground strop.
If you only change the heat range of the spark plug to a colder heat range, you may very well still have the misfire problem. Since the length 0f the ground strap is the cause the misFire, a colder spark plug may have the same length of ground strap as the hotter plug you replaced it with.
Spark plug gaps should generally be .030” to .035”. Never try to gap a plug designed for an .060” gap down to .035’. Find the correct non-projected nose plug designed for an .035” gap.
05-30-2014, 03:48 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
BR6EF is a non-projected tip #6 heat range. If he steps it up to 150+ I would use the BR7EF. I use BR7EF's in my supercharged LS3. Street manners are fine and I don't foul plugs.
05-30-2014, 05:26 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
06-01-2014, 09:20 AM
#14
Plus if your anything like the rest of us the 75 shot may turn into a 100,125, or 150 real quick
2008 C6 Corvette- jet stream blue, black spider replica wheels, blacked out tails, lowered, corsa sport exhaust, headers, air raid intake,
Nitrous Outlet plate kit 150 shot 570hp 609tq
2005 GTO with home made custom twin turbo kit 586hp 604tq. SOLD.
1995 Trans Am LT1 SOLD
Last edited by TTGTO600HP; 06-01-2014 at 09:23 AM.
06-01-2014, 12:47 PM
#15
I have a 13 Grand Sport and am finishing up my Zex Nitrous install. All I'm doing is a 75 h/p shot. It's just right for the 1/8 mile Stadium parking lot track here in San Diego. I ran the colder plugs in my C5 using the same kit. It just didn't run as well for normal use. I'd like to run my stock plugs. Is it a big deal to run stock plugs? Does anyone else run them?
If you're stepping up from that level to say a 125 shot, then you need to tune it properly and start pulling the timing back, as that is more important than anything else. If you're going bigger than that, you should change to a non-projected plug like the BR7, although you may not want to run that on the street in N/A form, as it will probably foul easier than the stock plugs will and may affect your MPG.
In fact, if you're ever going to run big (175+hp) nitrous, you're going to have to get comfortable with tuning the car at the track to run with nitrous, so changing plugs would just be part of that routine. This would include tuning the TCM as well, just to get it to shift properly. You should be okay with the 75 shot though.
And part of that tuning regimen is going to have to be reading the plugs properly to assess A/F, plug heat range and timing, because every engine and nitrous kit requires careful specific tuning. Plug reading may seem like black art to some, and entire books have been written on this topic, but it's fairly easy when you know what to look for and have a good magnifier. I don't think there's the need to discuss it on here if you're just going to run a 75 shot and leave it at that.
I'm only telling you this because nitrous use can be addictive, as there's a tendency to think, well, if it ran that good on a 75 shot, it should run much better on a 125...
BTW: contrary to popular myth, Iridium is a much tougher material than copper, and I guarantee you that if you could see the plugs that the big boost extreme HP turbo guys use, most of them would be Denso Iridium. I remember seeing an article in National Dragster where Ken Duttweiler was trying to get one of his 35+psi twin turbo motors to run on the dyno and it kept breaking up to the extent he couldn't get it to produce a decent run. He then changed the plugs to Denso Iridium and it was able to make 600hp!! more than with a conventional race plug! The fact is that, because iridium is so much stronger than cooper or platinum, the electrode can be made much smaller (Denso race plugs have a 0.4mm dia.) and therefore the ability to fire the plug is greatly enhanced at elevated combustion pressures.
And that's why GM can warranty these plugs for 100,000 miles too - they just don't wear out like copper plugs do.
06-01-2014, 09:17 PM
#16
Race Director
There is no reason why you should need to change the plugs for a 75 shot, especially to run in an 1/8 drag event. There's also no reason to change the gap. I have run my 6.2 L92 truck many times with a 175 shot (on a Zex kit) with the stock iridium plugs, and I have tried just about every plug out there and none worked better, and most ran worse, some even throwing DTCs during daily use.
If you're stepping up from that level to say a 125 shot, then you need to tune it properly and start pulling the timing back, as that is more important than anything else. If you're going bigger than that, you should change to a non-projected plug like the BR7, although you may not want to run that on the street in N/A form, as it will probably foul easier than the stock plugs will and may affect your MPG.
In fact, if you're ever going to run big (175+hp) nitrous, you're going to have to get comfortable with tuning the car at the track to run with nitrous, so changing plugs would just be part of that routine. This would include tuning the TCM as well, just to get it to shift properly. You should be okay with the 75 shot though.
And part of that tuning regimen is going to have to be reading the plugs properly to assess A/F, plug heat range and timing, because every engine and nitrous kit requires careful specific tuning. Plug reading may seem like black art to some, and entire books have been written on this topic, but it's fairly easy when you know what to look for and have a good magnifier. I don't think there's the need to discuss it on here if you're just going to run a 75 shot and leave it at that.
I'm only telling you this because nitrous use can be addictive, as there's a tendency to think, well, if it ran that good on a 75 shot, it should run much better on a 125...
BTW: contrary to popular myth, Iridium is a much tougher material than copper, and I guarantee you that if you could see the plugs that the big boost extreme HP turbo guys use, most of them would be Denso Iridium. I remember seeing an article in National Dragster where Ken Duttweiler was trying to get one of his 35+psi twin turbo motors to run on the dyno and it kept breaking up to the extent he couldn't get it to produce a decent run. He then changed the plugs to Denso Iridium and it was able to make 600hp!! more than with a conventional race plug! The fact is that, because iridium is so much stronger than cooper or platinum, the electrode can be made much smaller (Denso race plugs have a 0.4mm dia.) and therefore the ability to fire the plug is greatly enhanced at elevated combustion pressures.
And that's why GM can warranty these plugs for 100,000 miles too - they just don't wear out like copper plugs do.
If you're stepping up from that level to say a 125 shot, then you need to tune it properly and start pulling the timing back, as that is more important than anything else. If you're going bigger than that, you should change to a non-projected plug like the BR7, although you may not want to run that on the street in N/A form, as it will probably foul easier than the stock plugs will and may affect your MPG.
In fact, if you're ever going to run big (175+hp) nitrous, you're going to have to get comfortable with tuning the car at the track to run with nitrous, so changing plugs would just be part of that routine. This would include tuning the TCM as well, just to get it to shift properly. You should be okay with the 75 shot though.
And part of that tuning regimen is going to have to be reading the plugs properly to assess A/F, plug heat range and timing, because every engine and nitrous kit requires careful specific tuning. Plug reading may seem like black art to some, and entire books have been written on this topic, but it's fairly easy when you know what to look for and have a good magnifier. I don't think there's the need to discuss it on here if you're just going to run a 75 shot and leave it at that.
I'm only telling you this because nitrous use can be addictive, as there's a tendency to think, well, if it ran that good on a 75 shot, it should run much better on a 125...
BTW: contrary to popular myth, Iridium is a much tougher material than copper, and I guarantee you that if you could see the plugs that the big boost extreme HP turbo guys use, most of them would be Denso Iridium. I remember seeing an article in National Dragster where Ken Duttweiler was trying to get one of his 35+psi twin turbo motors to run on the dyno and it kept breaking up to the extent he couldn't get it to produce a decent run. He then changed the plugs to Denso Iridium and it was able to make 600hp!! more than with a conventional race plug! The fact is that, because iridium is so much stronger than cooper or platinum, the electrode can be made much smaller (Denso race plugs have a 0.4mm dia.) and therefore the ability to fire the plug is greatly enhanced at elevated combustion pressures.
And that's why GM can warranty these plugs for 100,000 miles too - they just don't wear out like copper plugs do.
at 75 shot, but thats a starting point on how to fine tune in and get the best et, so lets start right and get a none projected plug and learn heat ranges timing and fueling an nitrous jetting
06-01-2014, 09:40 PM
#17
The problem is gaping them, not the ground strap but the platinum electrode,at 75 shot, but thats a starting point on how to fine tune in and get the best et, so lets start right and get a none projected plug and learn heat ranges timing and fueling an nitrous jetting
at 75 shot, but thats a starting point on how to fine tune in and get the best et, so lets start right and get a none projected plug and learn heat ranges timing and fueling an nitrous jettingThe problem with n2o blanket statements are the tuneups. "SAFE" is subjective, correct parts are critical...IMHO.
06-01-2014, 10:53 PM
#18
Race Director
06-02-2014, 04:39 PM
#19
Racer
My LS7 runs much better with the BRF6 plugs than it did with the BRF7 in low speed day to day driving. It did not like the BRF7 at idle and low rpm part throttle conditions.
06-02-2014, 08:13 PM
#20
Drifting
Thread Starter
I also agree. It took me a while to decide what to run because people seem to either not put a plug wire on right or have some other issue they blame on the new plugs. But I decided to run the br7s and have no problems. Lost no power at all on the dyno NA. Car its right where it should be for my mods. No hesitation and certainly not sluggish.
Plus if your anything like the rest of us the 75 shot may turn into a 100,125, or 150 real quick
2008 C6 Corvette- jet stream blue, black spider replica wheels, blacked out tails, lowered, corsa sport exhaust, headers, air raid intake,
Nitrous Outlet plate kit 150 shot 570hp 609tq
2005 GTO with home made custom twin turbo kit 586hp 604tq. SOLD.
1995 Trans Am LT1 SOLD
Plus if your anything like the rest of us the 75 shot may turn into a 100,125, or 150 real quick
2008 C6 Corvette- jet stream blue, black spider replica wheels, blacked out tails, lowered, corsa sport exhaust, headers, air raid intake,
Nitrous Outlet plate kit 150 shot 570hp 609tq
2005 GTO with home made custom twin turbo kit 586hp 604tq. SOLD.
1995 Trans Am LT1 SOLD
All this info you all provided is outstanding. I'll remove the Predator tune before I hit the gas. 75 shot only, and I'm going to run the stock plugs. The car is a 6 speed. The nitrous will be on then off as I throttle. 1/8th
mile is quick. I'll set the system to stop nitrous at 6000 and on at 1800. After the first night I run it, I'll pull the plugs and see what they look like. If to light colored, I'll cool down the plug.
What is the stock gap? Should I gap them?
I just reread your post Dennis. Leave the gap of the ground strap stock. Got it...
Last edited by vetten76; 06-02-2014 at 08:21 PM.