Do I need a larger TB on E-force 419 stroker build?
10-17-2015, 11:36 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Do I need a larger TB on E-force 419 stroker build?
Hi All,
Initially I was just planning on putting the Eforce on my stock 2006 LS2. But after some thought, I decided that asking the original 80k mile engine to start giving more might not be such a great idea. so we now have a Livernois 419 pro LS3 in house. my questions is do I need or should I get a larger TB than the stock unit? parts list below. thanks for any input.
new LS3 block
manley 4.0 crank
manley H beam rods
Ross 9.7 pistons
PRC 247 heads
Eforce stage 2 w/3.0 pulley
60# injectors
comp cams blower cam .624/.624 lift, 289/293 dur, 114 cl
lunati roller lifters.
scorpion roller rockers
comp cam push rods
ARP studs crank, rods and heads
melling high volume oil pump
trick flow double row chain
milodon windage tray, pan, pickup and oil filter adapter.
Kenne Bell BAP
Accel coil packs
Steel harmonic dampner
Initially I was just planning on putting the Eforce on my stock 2006 LS2. But after some thought, I decided that asking the original 80k mile engine to start giving more might not be such a great idea. so we now have a Livernois 419 pro LS3 in house. my questions is do I need or should I get a larger TB than the stock unit? parts list below. thanks for any input.
new LS3 block
manley 4.0 crank
manley H beam rods
Ross 9.7 pistons
PRC 247 heads
Eforce stage 2 w/3.0 pulley
60# injectors
comp cams blower cam .624/.624 lift, 289/293 dur, 114 cl
lunati roller lifters.
scorpion roller rockers
comp cam push rods
ARP studs crank, rods and heads
melling high volume oil pump
trick flow double row chain
milodon windage tray, pan, pickup and oil filter adapter.
Kenne Bell BAP
Accel coil packs
Steel harmonic dampner
Last edited by cforcht; 10-17-2015 at 06:35 PM. Reason: typo
10-17-2015, 11:58 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Nice setup. You will be pushing that eforce pretty hard. If you are buying injectors I would go bigger, as those might be maxed, or close to.
As far as throttle body, as far as I know you can't enlarge the eforce intake opening so a bigger TB would probably be a waste.
As far as throttle body, as far as I know you can't enlarge the eforce intake opening so a bigger TB would probably be a waste.
10-17-2015, 12:06 PM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
Thats a really good point on the eforce inlet size. didnt think about that. it measures just over 91mm so I would say you are correct on that. as for the injectors. they came with the S/C but I could go larger, any suggestions there? and I already have the coils. basically I want to leave as much on the stock motor as possible. looking to sell it when the swap is complete.
10-17-2015, 12:12 PM
#5
Le Mans Master
I can't remember exactly where I maxed my 60's but I'm pretty sure you will. ID 850 or 1000 would be a good choice if on pump gas. Should have plenty of room then.
10-17-2015, 12:24 PM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
ok thanks. now for the 64000 dollar question. just as a guesstimate mind you. where do you think this setup will come in at on the HP numbers? thanks
10-17-2015, 12:30 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
No clue. I maxed my eforce out at 780. On a built 402. That was with a 2.75 pulley. Every car is different so tough to guess, but you should make plenty.
10-17-2015, 05:46 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
That's damn sure a badasssed motor you're putting together. Is your compression ratio really 8.7:1 or am I reading this wrong? You might consider an o/d crank pulley. You're probably going to need all the blower speed you can get.
Last edited by old motorhead; 10-17-2015 at 05:50 PM.
10-17-2015, 08:04 PM
#12
Safety Car
Listen to both these guys above... they know this blower on these motors.
You will have to bump the injectors as was suggested. mine are almost maxxed at 598rwhp. I have a stock LS3 bottom end with ported Lingenfelter heads and a small cam (GT9). I am running a 3.25" pulley, so I could push mine a little harder, but to do so would require injectors for sure. Maybe someday. Car is strictly a street car, driven on street tires, so I'm pretty much at the practical limit.
GL with that build and let us know how it all shakes out. It will be awesome.
You will have to bump the injectors as was suggested. mine are almost maxxed at 598rwhp. I have a stock LS3 bottom end with ported Lingenfelter heads and a small cam (GT9). I am running a 3.25" pulley, so I could push mine a little harder, but to do so would require injectors for sure. Maybe someday. Car is strictly a street car, driven on street tires, so I'm pretty much at the practical limit.
GL with that build and let us know how it all shakes out. It will be awesome.
10-17-2015, 08:09 PM
#13
ID injectors are the best in the business from what i can tell but i just run Siemens 80lb injectors and made 865whp pretty easily with an ECS fuel system and dual nozzle meth so that's one option too
10-18-2015, 01:15 AM
#14
Racer
Thread Starter
thanks for the input. I will get larger injectors. I looked up the ID injectors, whoa. they dont give those babies away. will probably consider the Siemens though. the funds on this project are getting tighter as we go.
theres a whole list of other mods happening on this car this winter aside from the power plant upgrade. I have most everything already on hand. such as complete wide body, wheels tires, pfadt sway bars, ZR1 calipers and rotors, full suspension rebuild with poly bushings and new shocks. new clutch.
considering a lighter flywheel but havent decided on that yet. most likely yes.
already did the interior insulation this spring as well as the MGW shifter and a new head unit. after doing a little research on the meth injection. which is something Ive never been around. it looks as though this would be a huge benefit. both in power increase as well as lowering the chance of detonation. speaking of which. as I understand it the stock engine has knock sensors. in the valley cover i believe. the Eforce does not have that provision in the valley cover. how is this handled? new sensors somewhere else? or are they deleted altogether? and if so does the tune have to deal with it in some manner? thanks for the input.
theres a whole list of other mods happening on this car this winter aside from the power plant upgrade. I have most everything already on hand. such as complete wide body, wheels tires, pfadt sway bars, ZR1 calipers and rotors, full suspension rebuild with poly bushings and new shocks. new clutch.
considering a lighter flywheel but havent decided on that yet. most likely yes.
already did the interior insulation this spring as well as the MGW shifter and a new head unit. after doing a little research on the meth injection. which is something Ive never been around. it looks as though this would be a huge benefit. both in power increase as well as lowering the chance of detonation. speaking of which. as I understand it the stock engine has knock sensors. in the valley cover i believe. the Eforce does not have that provision in the valley cover. how is this handled? new sensors somewhere else? or are they deleted altogether? and if so does the tune have to deal with it in some manner? thanks for the input.
10-18-2015, 07:34 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
The knock sensors are in the side of the block and get retained. It's been some years since they were in the valley plate. Before LS2 I believe.
Meth can help a with cooling and octane for sure. You don't see the IATs drop as much as a centri setup, partially due to the placement of the sensor, but it does help.
As far as injectors I don't have experience either Siemens myself but as long as good data is available they should be fine. I would speak with whoever is going to tune the car, just to make sure they are ok with your choice.
Sounds like you are doing a super nice build there.
ZR1 brakes are super nice but keep in mind large brakes make it more difficult and expensive to find wheels and tires that will hold that power. The choices will be more limited.
Good luck with this and keep us posted on the progress.
Meth can help a with cooling and octane for sure. You don't see the IATs drop as much as a centri setup, partially due to the placement of the sensor, but it does help.
As far as injectors I don't have experience either Siemens myself but as long as good data is available they should be fine. I would speak with whoever is going to tune the car, just to make sure they are ok with your choice.
Sounds like you are doing a super nice build there.
ZR1 brakes are super nice but keep in mind large brakes make it more difficult and expensive to find wheels and tires that will hold that power. The choices will be more limited.
Good luck with this and keep us posted on the progress.
10-18-2015, 11:25 AM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
Realcanuk can you explain the "centri" im not familiar with meth injection. my experience is old school big blocks. which didnt have all the electronic gizmos nor the meth etc. it was all carbs and cubes. of course gas was a little better quality and you could get leaded as well. i know that kind of dates me. as for the knock sensor. I am just going by pictures and parts etc. haven't had an LS engine apart before building this one.
as for the ZR1 brakes I have the wheels and tires already. 19x10 and 20x13 fitment is good so I think were ok there. I opted for the iron rotors over the carbon rotors. just couldnt see paying that much for a single rotor. as for the tires holding the power. well this is for fun. not doing any serious racing with it. not yet anyway.
as for the ZR1 brakes I have the wheels and tires already. 19x10 and 20x13 fitment is good so I think were ok there. I opted for the iron rotors over the carbon rotors. just couldnt see paying that much for a single rotor. as for the tires holding the power. well this is for fun. not doing any serious racing with it. not yet anyway.
10-18-2015, 11:55 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
Realcanuk can you explain the "centri" im not familiar with meth injection. my experience is old school big blocks. which didnt have all the electronic gizmos nor the meth etc. it was all carbs and cubes. of course gas was a little better quality and you could get leaded as well. i know that kind of dates me. as for the knock sensor. I am just going by pictures and parts etc. haven't had an LS engine apart before building this one.
as for the ZR1 brakes I have the wheels and tires already. 19x10 and 20x13 fitment is good so I think were ok there. I opted for the iron rotors over the carbon rotors. just couldnt see paying that much for a single rotor. as for the tires holding the power. well this is for fun. not doing any serious racing with it. not yet anyway.
as for the ZR1 brakes I have the wheels and tires already. 19x10 and 20x13 fitment is good so I think were ok there. I opted for the iron rotors over the carbon rotors. just couldnt see paying that much for a single rotor. as for the tires holding the power. well this is for fun. not doing any serious racing with it. not yet anyway.
10-18-2015, 04:28 PM
#20
Great upgrade cforcht!
You already got the best answers.
I am planning a similar upgrade taking the Wegner 416/E-Force route. In my case I went with FAST 85lbs injectors.
Good luck.
Cheers.
You already got the best answers.
I am planning a similar upgrade taking the Wegner 416/E-Force route. In my case I went with FAST 85lbs injectors.
Good luck.
Cheers.