Options for More HP Magnuson HB on 91 Octane in CA
04-12-2017, 10:04 AM
#21
Mitch, you're right where I was before I did a cam change, so I know how you feel. If it was your daily driver, I would tell you to just leave it there.
But, if you want a weekend warrior, I would suggest that you do a Pat G custom cam or (my recommendation) a cam with with around 220-225 intake duration and 235-240 exhaust, with relatively "gentle" lobes, with a max of ~.585" lift and with a 118 LSA and ground with ~4* advanced.
Of course, you'll need new springs and pushrods, but that's a worthwhile upgrade anyhow. I would also go with the largest OD Harmonic balancer you can get on there, like what I'm using, which is the IW 10% OD. I went with the 8-rib and blower hub, as it was worth the extra few dollars, IMV.
That way, you can use an upper pulley to get whatever boost you want up to around 12psi with that cam. Trust me, if you like your car now, you'll love it then.
You will need new injectors. I would recommend the ID850s, unless you're going to do E85 fuel, in which case you'll need something like the new ID1000Xs. Ask schpenxel why I say that. He can explain it much better than me, but my car idles very smoothly with the cam and those injectors and their accurate data are the secret, I believe.
For fuel, I would use the 91 with Torco, Boostane or the VP octane booster. I've used Boostane before and it works. Here's a screen shot from a data log of me dialling in the tune with a 12.25AFR and zero KR with a tankful of 93 with Boostane in it. Somehow it didn't grenade.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and please keep us posted. If you have any questions about anything, just let me know.
But, if you want a weekend warrior, I would suggest that you do a Pat G custom cam or (my recommendation) a cam with with around 220-225 intake duration and 235-240 exhaust, with relatively "gentle" lobes, with a max of ~.585" lift and with a 118 LSA and ground with ~4* advanced.
Of course, you'll need new springs and pushrods, but that's a worthwhile upgrade anyhow. I would also go with the largest OD Harmonic balancer you can get on there, like what I'm using, which is the IW 10% OD. I went with the 8-rib and blower hub, as it was worth the extra few dollars, IMV.
That way, you can use an upper pulley to get whatever boost you want up to around 12psi with that cam. Trust me, if you like your car now, you'll love it then.
You will need new injectors. I would recommend the ID850s, unless you're going to do E85 fuel, in which case you'll need something like the new ID1000Xs. Ask schpenxel why I say that. He can explain it much better than me, but my car idles very smoothly with the cam and those injectors and their accurate data are the secret, I believe.
For fuel, I would use the 91 with Torco, Boostane or the VP octane booster. I've used Boostane before and it works. Here's a screen shot from a data log of me dialling in the tune with a 12.25AFR and zero KR with a tankful of 93 with Boostane in it. Somehow it didn't grenade.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and please keep us posted. If you have any questions about anything, just let me know.
The following users liked this post:
Chiselchst (04-12-2017)
04-12-2017, 12:56 PM
#22
Drifting
Thread Starter
Sammy, thanks so much! Appreciate your input. That cam info will be scraped and stored in my car file. Doubt I could get away with non-stock balancer at this point.
Cats - I'll need to keep those on the manifolds.
Anyone know what the limits are with the 3" ZR1 cats in the exhaust manifolds? I know most are running headers with no cats, but that's not possible for me right now...
Cats - I'll need to keep those on the manifolds.
Anyone know what the limits are with the 3" ZR1 cats in the exhaust manifolds? I know most are running headers with no cats, but that's not possible for me right now...
Last edited by Chiselchst; 04-12-2017 at 12:58 PM.
04-12-2017, 02:21 PM
#23
Mitch if you decide to do a cam I've got you covered. E85 is also an option with some fuel upgrades.
A mild PD blower cam, 850cc injectors and going down 1 pulley size should provide a nice bump while still staying on 91 with cats.
A mild PD blower cam, 850cc injectors and going down 1 pulley size should provide a nice bump while still staying on 91 with cats.
Last edited by lt1z; 04-12-2017 at 02:26 PM.
04-12-2017, 03:09 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
12.25 AFR? Wow. And no knock? I thought I was risky at 11.8
Mitch, you're right where I was before I did a cam change, so I know how you feel. If it was your daily driver, I would tell you to just leave it there.
But, if you want a weekend warrior, I would suggest that you do a Pat G custom cam or (my recommendation) a cam with with around 220-225 intake duration and 235-240 exhaust, with relatively "gentle" lobes, with a max of ~.585" lift and with a 118 LSA and ground with ~4* advanced.
Of course, you'll need new springs and pushrods, but that's a worthwhile upgrade anyhow. I would also go with the largest OD Harmonic balancer you can get on there, like what I'm using, which is the IW 10% OD. I went with the 8-rib and blower hub, as it was worth the extra few dollars, IMV.
That way, you can use an upper pulley to get whatever boost you want up to around 12psi with that cam. Trust me, if you like your car now, you'll love it then.
You will need new injectors. I would recommend the ID850s, unless you're going to do E85 fuel, in which case you'll need something like the new ID1000Xs. Ask schpenxel why I say that. He can explain it much better than me, but my car idles very smoothly with the cam and those injectors and their accurate data are the secret, I believe.
For fuel, I would use the 91 with Torco, Boostane or the VP octane booster. I've used Boostane before and it works. Here's a screen shot from a data log of me dialling in the tune with a 12.25AFR and zero KR with a tankful of 93 with Boostane in it. Somehow it didn't grenade.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and please keep us posted. If you have any questions about anything, just let me know.
But, if you want a weekend warrior, I would suggest that you do a Pat G custom cam or (my recommendation) a cam with with around 220-225 intake duration and 235-240 exhaust, with relatively "gentle" lobes, with a max of ~.585" lift and with a 118 LSA and ground with ~4* advanced.
Of course, you'll need new springs and pushrods, but that's a worthwhile upgrade anyhow. I would also go with the largest OD Harmonic balancer you can get on there, like what I'm using, which is the IW 10% OD. I went with the 8-rib and blower hub, as it was worth the extra few dollars, IMV.
That way, you can use an upper pulley to get whatever boost you want up to around 12psi with that cam. Trust me, if you like your car now, you'll love it then.
You will need new injectors. I would recommend the ID850s, unless you're going to do E85 fuel, in which case you'll need something like the new ID1000Xs. Ask schpenxel why I say that. He can explain it much better than me, but my car idles very smoothly with the cam and those injectors and their accurate data are the secret, I believe.
For fuel, I would use the 91 with Torco, Boostane or the VP octane booster. I've used Boostane before and it works. Here's a screen shot from a data log of me dialling in the tune with a 12.25AFR and zero KR with a tankful of 93 with Boostane in it. Somehow it didn't grenade.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and please keep us posted. If you have any questions about anything, just let me know.
04-12-2017, 03:48 PM
#25
Race Director
Member Since: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 16,664
Received 1,193 Likes
on
1,052 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
He's not running regular pump 93 last I heard
Last edited by schpenxel; 04-12-2017 at 03:49 PM.
04-12-2017, 04:14 PM
#26
Drifting
Thread Starter
If I do this I'm definitely going with one of your cams, Matt. I know the records they've set. Maybe a stg 2?
Sounds you'd rather have me pulley up rather than rely on Torco. I'm not too crazy about that either...
Thanks
Sounds you'd rather have me pulley up rather than rely on Torco. I'm not too crazy about that either...
Thanks
04-12-2017, 04:27 PM
#27
Yep, that was the shakedown pass right after installing the cam with a tune I bought for a CF member with a similar setup. Luckily, I had dumped a whole can of BOOSTane in a 1/2 tank of 93 pump though. So that should have put my octane over 100, according to the label. That **** works as advertised, I believe (see label below).
Nowadays I typically use a ~50/50 mix of 93 pump and MS109 or MS103 and my tuner buddy from NC (schpenxel) has my WOT AFR solidly in the mid 11s.
Nowadays I typically use a ~50/50 mix of 93 pump and MS109 or MS103 and my tuner buddy from NC (schpenxel) has my WOT AFR solidly in the mid 11s.
Last edited by CI GS; 04-12-2017 at 04:30 PM.
The following users liked this post:
ls1wolf (04-13-2017)
04-12-2017, 04:35 PM
#28
The cats would most likely fail at higher (>10 psi) boost levels. Mine did.
As suggested above, you can to pulley down a touch with the cam, because that will cause boost to drop.
04-12-2017, 04:36 PM
#29
Race Director
Member Since: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 16,664
Received 1,193 Likes
on
1,052 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
I guess I don't drive mine hard enough, cats are still holding up somehow (Z06 cats). I'm really surprised... perhaps it's long tube time 
Last edited by schpenxel; 04-12-2017 at 04:43 PM.
04-12-2017, 09:21 PM
#30
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks guys!
Matt, my tuner, he's a pretty smart guy. He warned me that the cats - even the ZR1's - might be an issue. But the hard-headed-hard-core PC wrencher that I am was reluctant to listen, LOL.
****, I had my smog license 1978-1982. Things haven't changed THAT much, right? 
So...would an OD HB of say 10% (8.25"?), with the 96mm pulley be "better"?
I could not find that math ratio you provided once Sammy on pulley ratio/vs blower speed or whatever, and was thinking more belt wrap be better?
Before this thread dies, should I use a small cam, small boost bump, and small octane bump? Or only 1 or 2 of those?
THANKS!
Matt, my tuner, he's a pretty smart guy. He warned me that the cats - even the ZR1's - might be an issue. But the hard-headed-hard-core PC wrencher that I am was reluctant to listen, LOL.
****, I had my smog license 1978-1982. Things haven't changed THAT much, right? So...would an OD HB of say 10% (8.25"?), with the 96mm pulley be "better"?
I could not find that math ratio you provided once Sammy on pulley ratio/vs blower speed or whatever, and was thinking more belt wrap be better?
Before this thread dies, should I use a small cam, small boost bump, and small octane bump? Or only 1 or 2 of those?
THANKS!
This^^^ sounds like the way to go. Sorry Mitch, I keep forgetting that you live in "clean air act country".
The cats would most likely fail at higher (>10 psi) boost levels. Mine did.
As suggested above, you can to pulley down a touch with the cam, because that will cause boost to drop.
The cats would most likely fail at higher (>10 psi) boost levels. Mine did.
As suggested above, you can to pulley down a touch with the cam, because that will cause boost to drop.
Last edited by Chiselchst; 04-12-2017 at 09:23 PM.
04-13-2017, 12:27 AM
#31
The IW 10% OD damper measures like 8.25" overall (to the lip), but the actual pulley diameter is 8.00" iirc what I was told by IW.
I need to find the chart that Rodney posted up somewhere on here with the pulley math. I also have a one so where in my garage somewhere that I made myself with different pulley combos. I'll see if I can find it or do another one and post it up. The advantage of using the bigger dia. Lower pulley is that you can use a relatively bigger upper and get the same boost with more surface area under the belt, so to speak. Smaller pulleys tend to allow more belt slip, in other words.
Given your situation, I would keep the ZR1 manifolds and cats, and do a small cam and the bigger lower pulley to start with and go from there. And use Torco or Boostane octane booster, definitely.
I need to find the chart that Rodney posted up somewhere on here with the pulley math. I also have a one so where in my garage somewhere that I made myself with different pulley combos. I'll see if I can find it or do another one and post it up. The advantage of using the bigger dia. Lower pulley is that you can use a relatively bigger upper and get the same boost with more surface area under the belt, so to speak. Smaller pulleys tend to allow more belt slip, in other words.
Given your situation, I would keep the ZR1 manifolds and cats, and do a small cam and the bigger lower pulley to start with and go from there. And use Torco or Boostane octane booster, definitely.
The following users liked this post:
Chiselchst (04-13-2017)
04-13-2017, 09:21 AM
#32
Drifting
Thread Starter
Sammy, please don't bother look for that info. I can do another search and find it. I forgot it was was Rodney, I thought it was you that posted it. No wonder my searches were unsuccessful.
Thanks
Thanks
The IW 10% OD damper measures like 8.25" overall (to the lip), but the actual pulley diameter is 8.00" iirc what I was told by IW.
I need to find the chart that Rodney posted up somewhere on here with the pulley math. I also have a one so where in my garage somewhere that I made myself with different pulley combos. I'll see if I can find it or do another one and post it up. The advantage of using the bigger dia. Lower pulley is that you can use a relatively bigger upper and get the same boost with more surface area under the belt, so to speak. Smaller pulleys tend to allow more belt slip, in other words.
Given your situation, I would keep the ZR1 manifolds and cats, and do a small cam and the bigger lower pulley to start with and go from there. And use Torco or Boostane octane booster, definitely.
I need to find the chart that Rodney posted up somewhere on here with the pulley math. I also have a one so where in my garage somewhere that I made myself with different pulley combos. I'll see if I can find it or do another one and post it up. The advantage of using the bigger dia. Lower pulley is that you can use a relatively bigger upper and get the same boost with more surface area under the belt, so to speak. Smaller pulleys tend to allow more belt slip, in other words.
Given your situation, I would keep the ZR1 manifolds and cats, and do a small cam and the bigger lower pulley to start with and go from there. And use Torco or Boostane octane booster, definitely.
04-13-2017, 10:36 AM
#33
That's okay man, I already found a notepad with some calculations on it that should give you an idea of the difference between various pulley combos. Here it is:
04-13-2017, 11:28 AM
#34
I would just drop the blower pulley one size for a mild cam.
However you could to the IW 10% OD if you wanted since it will come off to install the cam anyway, but will need to be re pinned 180* from the stock balancer.
However you could to the IW 10% OD if you wanted since it will come off to install the cam anyway, but will need to be re pinned 180* from the stock balancer.
04-13-2017, 11:56 AM
#35
I'd think either direction you go with that a single nozzle meth kit is slam dunk given crappy and unreliable california gas. you could make a single nozzle kit become very stealthy and hidden if you did it the right way on the bottom of the piping with black lines etc.
why not do both cam, pulley and meth? adding the meth is not that much more $, you can hide it easy or just remove the line once every 2 years if you're worried, and if you're getting the car tuned anyway may as well?
why not do both cam, pulley and meth? adding the meth is not that much more $, you can hide it easy or just remove the line once every 2 years if you're worried, and if you're getting the car tuned anyway may as well?
04-13-2017, 11:57 AM
#36
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks Sammy! I'll have to digest that info for best belt wrap vs ratio...seeing the math I get it now (I think).
Should I expect any belt slip w/ an 84mm (or 86) upper?
Man, the help on this forum is solid, and you're one of the best, Sammy. Thanks
I'd definitely replace the HB if the cam was done, so this make sense. Answered another question in regards to re-pinning it. Thanks Matt
Should I expect any belt slip w/ an 84mm (or 86) upper?
Man, the help on this forum is solid, and you're one of the best, Sammy. Thanks
Last edited by Chiselchst; 04-13-2017 at 12:00 PM.
04-13-2017, 12:02 PM
#37
Drifting
Thread Starter
Didn't even think of hiding it - or disconnecting/removing it. Makes sense. More options, thanks!
I'd think either direction you go with that a single nozzle meth kit is slam dunk given crappy and unreliable california gas. you could make a single nozzle kit become very stealthy and hidden if you did it the right way on the bottom of the piping with black lines etc.
why not do both cam, pulley and meth? adding the meth is not that much more $, you can hide it easy or just remove the line once every 2 years if you're worried, and if you're getting the car tuned anyway may as well?
why not do both cam, pulley and meth? adding the meth is not that much more $, you can hide it easy or just remove the line once every 2 years if you're worried, and if you're getting the car tuned anyway may as well?
04-13-2017, 02:31 PM
#38
Race Director
Member Since: May 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 16,664
Received 1,193 Likes
on
1,052 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15
I hope anyways
04-14-2017, 11:06 AM
#39
Drifting
Thread Starter
Sammy, thanks for that info. Just for the record, thought I'd share a snip of a spreadsheet I put together to quickly review pulley combos.
How does your grip Tech pulley work?
Did you ever get the ECS tensioner installed?
(are my calcs right? they don't quite smell right...)
ETA 0.5# boost per CI GS input
How does your grip Tech pulley work?
Did you ever get the ECS tensioner installed?
(are my calcs right? they don't quite smell right...)
ETA 0.5# boost per CI GS input
Last edited by Chiselchst; 05-04-2017 at 12:05 AM.
04-14-2017, 11:35 AM
#40
Sammy, thanks for that info. Just for the record, thought I'd share a snip of a spreadsheet I put together to quickly review pulley combos.
How does your grip Tech pulley work?
Did you ever get the ECS tensioner installed?
(are my calcs right? doesn't pass the smell test...)
How does your grip Tech pulley work?
Did you ever get the ECS tensioner installed?
(are my calcs right? doesn't pass the smell test...)
The calculated boost numbers for the stock cam could be bumped up by .5 psi, from my experience.
Thanks for doing this exercise and sharing it.
The Griptech pulley works great, but I don't think any pulley can resist slipping if the tensioner isn't keeping the belt tight enough. I also have a Griptech 3.4 inch pulley, as well as the 96mm, and a 90mm and 81mm Magnuson pulley, along with a bunch of belts.
I haven't had a chance to do the ECS tensioner or install the RPM belt as yet, but I have no doubt that will cure any belt slip problems I now have.
I'll post up pictures of the install and a write up when I go at it.
I can't touch the car this weekend though, because woodstoc is coming to town this weekend and I promised to take him for a ride in the Vette.
Last edited by CI GS; 04-14-2017 at 11:37 AM.
The following users liked this post:
Chiselchst (04-14-2017)