MurderZ

So I have an interesting scenario that has played out over the past couple of years. This may be a long read so bear with me.

July 2015: My car was heads cam ECS 1500 on a stock bottom end LS7 making around 700whp. The car cracked a cylinder wall sleeve and that was that. Decided to go with ERL and they stated that my engine was a candidate for their SuperDeck setup. The process with ERL seemed fine aside from the fact that they were supposed to send an assembled engine but the engine came unassembled. I had my shops engine builder assemble it as we were in sort of a time crunch trying to get the car ready for TX2K.

March 2016: The car was up and running and ready to go. Kept the ECS 1500 for the time being but upgraded the bracket, added an Innovators West balancer, and upgraded a few other things. Had some belt issues with the ECS 1500 with the bracket setup so went with a Procharger F1R.

May 2016 - December 2016: The car was running great and was making 830whp with the F1R. Everything was fine aside from some belt issues.

January 2017 - March 2017: In January I decided to pulley down and up the boost. Not too much but just a little more. Still had the F1R and the car made around 870whp. Got the car back in March just in time for TX2K and brought it down there. First night I was racing my buddy with a 900+whp Z06 and was having some slight issues. I could not do a 2nd gear pull as my car was hitting the failsafe and felt like it was hitting a brick wall. Pretty much it would start to do a pull and then get to around 5000rpm and it was like I slammed on the brakes. I figured okay I'll just do 3rd gear rolls. So that is what we did and we raced probably a half dozen times. The last race we had the car dropped oil pressure at the end of the pull and I immediately shut it down. I also noticed my oil temp and coolant temp rising before I shut it down. Pulled it off the highway and popped the hood. Once popping the hood I noticed that my belt was broken. Thought that was strange but as stated earlier it was a common occurrence with this car. Decided to start it back up and upon start up there was no strange engine noises but my oil pressure was at around 10. I trailered it back to the hotel. I did notice while loading it on the trailer that the car was vibrating pretty bad while letting the clutch out, thought that was strange. Next day I changed the oil pressure sensor just to rule out that it could have been a stupid issue and the belt breaking was a coincidence. Nothing changed with the oil pressure once we replaced it so I decided to drain the oil. This is what I found:



Figured there was a bearing issue so TX2K was a bust.

April 2017: Time to break it down. Had my shop take the engine out and bring it to their engine builder (same guy who assembled it once it arrived from ERL) He took it apart and found 3 chewed up middle main bearings. Brought it to the machine shop and they rebored the line hone, replaced the bearings, and polished the crank.

May 2017: Engine builder got the engine back and went to reassemble it. He noticed that the wrist pins were out of spec and the pistons needed to be replaced. It seems as though the pistons should have never been in the engine to begin with. The engine builder also has a theory that the block may have shifted causing the bearings to get chewed up.

June 2017: New pistons have arrived and the engine is back at the machine shop being balanced. I'm not really sure what to do at this point as I'm trying to figure out what caused this whole issue in the first place. I'm concerned if I keep the ERL engine if it will happen all over again. I'm also considering selling it and going LSX. Just weighing my options.

Keep in mind I had less than a year and under 2000 miles on the ERL setup before I had these issues. I've spoken to ERL about the this and they said they use the same pistons on all of their setups, although on my engine build sheet it lists the pistons as "TBD" On my buddy's build sheet who has the exact same motor as me it lists his pistons as Wiseco ones with a part number. They also stated I should have a piston sheet with my engine sheet but I do not have that nor did I ever receive one.

The ERL engine is a 4 Bolt SuperDeck with compstar rods and a compstar 58x dry sump crank.

So with all of that information, what do you think happened?

inspector12

Well not going to really be able to give you a direct answer. As you gave a lot of details that really doesn't tell us anything other than you were having belt issues and changed SC. I will tell you that in my experience belts seldom break clean unless Blower locks up, or there is an issue with tension and or alignment issues on any combination of both. Ran something VERY similar for years, Sleeved LS2 block done by RED and and F1R on my F-body making 1050rwhp on blower and 1200rwhp with spray on top. All the issues I ever had were usually due to the blower putting a lot of stress on the cranks, It did eventually crack the #2 main on the Lunati crank I had. But it had been in 2 previous motors and the last time it was in my TT Z06 when I pulled to finally inspect I'd guess that I had about 15-20K on it at the time. But my point is I don't think your going to be able to point a finger at one single thing especially since ERL didn't even put the motor together. But the power levels your talking are well with in the range that block should be fine for. BUT I know what its like to not have faith in something so it is your choice. But if the engine builder thinks its fine, and your confident in the new parts your installing I wouldn't be afraid to run it. If on the other had you feel your going to be happier with an LSX block and the additional weight isn't going to bother you that could be your ticket to feeling secure about it etc... GL

GeneSch

That is a lot of brass or bronze in the oil. What rockers were you running? How are the lifter bores?

silver408z

I cant say for sure what happened to your build. I am not knowledgeable enough and I am sure more info is really needed. I can tell you compstar cranks and prochargers are not really good for each other. Look up Ajrothm on this forum and read about his experience. I have also talked to another guy with a GTO who had troubles with a compstar and a D1. On ajrothm's car he twisted the crank and it took out bearings.

A f1r is hard to turn and takes a lot of power. This puts a a lot of stress on the crank. I read that is takes 150 hp to turn a f1r to max. So by the time you make 870 rwhp with a f1r you are making around 1100 fly wheel with drive train and f1r parasitic loss.

MurderZ

Interesting. I could see that playing a role in the issues. Do you think upgrading to dragonslayer parts would help?

Thanks for your reply.

silver408z

A dragonslayer is a good upgrade. Talk to Callies to be sure. I am personally having a dart shp block, dart center weighted billet crank(its new and very well priced), wiseco boostline rods and wiseco pistons built. blownbluez06 is taking care of my stuff. He knows a lot more than I do. You might give him a pm.

neverstop

can't say i have much to say about your motor but if you're ok with ~850-1000whp it may make sense to go with a different blower that is not as hard on the crank and belts etc. I made 900whp with a D1SC and Detoxx on here made ~950whp easily with the new D1x and those should have wayyyyy lower parasitic drag, belt stress, and crank stress, etc than a comparatively old school tech f1r. I bet by the time you sold the f1r and went with D1x the net cost wouldn't be much at all and d1x is far newer tech.


I don't know anything about ERL but fwiw when I called LME (build some of the fastest LS motors on earth) and told them I was thinking >1,000whp they said LSX Block for sure so that's what i went with. been awhile and zero issues at 900whp for me at least.


hard to see perfect in the pic but does look like a lot of brass in there too which is not good.

C5 Pete

My buddy had the same issue with his 346/YSi Z06.

Three center main bearings toasted. Bent the OEM crank at about 900 to the tire and many 1/4 mile passes.

Completely rebuilt the thing with an aftermarket crank (I don't remember what one)

Now he's pulley'd down for more power but it's holding up fine. He's trapping 158 at 3300lbs.

Making a lot of power. It's amazing what a YSi on a 346 can make.

Good luck with your repairs.

inspector12

Yeah I didn't catch the compstar crank, but he's talking about Alan and yeah its been well documented that the compstar cranks aren't good for high hp and especially blowers! I would be Very suspect of that being a huge issue. They tend to flex quite a bit, and added the blowers harmonics into the mix and probably a likely candidate. Have you had the crank checked out yet? I too like the new Dart Fully counterweighted crank for the money its hard to beat! Been running one in Flaco's truck for a while now without any issues. He's touching on 2000hp.

bmfvette

Agree with Inspector12 and Silver. Lots of posts on CF with the Compstar crank flexing (blower cars) and taking out bearings. If going with Callies crank on a blower car dragon slayer at a minimum.