Notices
C6 Forced Induction/Nitrous C6 Corvette Turbochargers, Superchargers, Pulley Upgrades, Intercoolers, Wet and Dry Nitrous Injection, Meth
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Ttix no boost control

 
Old 06-26-2018, 01:59 PM
  #1  
SpeedRite
CF Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Oct 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default Ttix no boost control

Grandsport Corvette (LS3) Stock engine/heads.
BTR twin turbo cam.
TTIX with PT 62/65 turbos and Champion 3 inch down pipes. Z06 3 inch midpipe and Akrapovic Axle back.

I'm having the same issue that it seems many have had. I can't make anything less than 18lbs. Currently my tune is limited to 4800RPM and e85. This is with a 3lb wastegate spring running on just spring pressure.

I've read about porting the wastegate port on the turbine housing. Does anyone have first hand knowledge if this really works?

I've also purchased 46mm wastegates.

I've also read about the one person who installed wastegates on the turbine housing. That is a last resort.

Any other recommendations?

Last edited by SpeedRite; 06-27-2018 at 12:13 AM.
SpeedRite is offline  
Old 06-26-2018, 11:24 PM
  #2  
staticki
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Dec 2007
Location: Dyer IN
Posts: 1,248
Received 31 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

This doesn't make sense.

What boost controller are you using? If running a boost controller, try to open it up all the way and see if you can run just on spring pressure. If not, take it off and try running just on spring pressure and see what you can get. Or, if you are running on just spring pressure, you should only be getting 3psi. Unless you have the wrong nipple hooked up or you are pulling from the wrong boost source. Doing either of these will let you know where the problem is; either the controller or spring.

I wouldn't mess with moving the waste gates unless you start seeing boost creep.

​​​​​​​Unless I am completely missing something.
staticki is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:01 AM
  #3  
SpeedRite
CF Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Oct 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by staticki View Post
This doesn't make sense.

What boost controller are you using? If running a boost controller, try to open it up all the way and see if you can run just on spring pressure. If not, take it off and try running just on spring pressure and see what you can get. Or, if you are running on just spring pressure, you should only be getting 3psi. Unless you have the wrong nipple hooked up or you are pulling from the wrong boost source. Doing either of these will let you know where the problem is; either the controller or spring.

I wouldn't mess with moving the waste gates unless you start seeing boost creep.

Unless I am completely missing something.
Sorry, but judging by your post you have no experience with a TTIX kit. Yes, if this wasn't a ttix kit with a poor wastegate flow design, my post wouldn't make sense. I'm looking for real life experience with this kit.

Fyi, I'm using an eboost 2 and my vacuum/boost lines are pulled from the correct source and plumbed correctly.

Also, I believe you did not read my original post fully. I am running on 3 psi springs and solely running on gate spring pressure. No assistance from the boost controller.

Last edited by SpeedRite; 06-27-2018 at 12:08 AM.
SpeedRite is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:50 AM
  #4  
Turbo-Geist
CF Senior Member
 
Turbo-Geist's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,908
Received 131 Likes on 113 Posts
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
Default

I've been there. Click this link to see what benefit I got from relocating the gates to the housing. It wasn't worth it to me.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1593747284
Turbo-Geist is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 01:10 PM
  #5  
SpeedRite
CF Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Oct 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Sounds like theres a general consensus that the three inch downpipe produces too much flow and that the 2 inch downpipe may help add enough back pressure to divert exhaust flow into the wastegate? I'll definitely purchase smaller downpipes if that is the case. Whatcha think?
SpeedRite is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 03:04 PM
  #6  
TurboLX
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Feb 2003
Location: Detroit MI
Posts: 491
Received 24 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SpeedRite View Post
Sounds like theres a general consensus that the three inch downpipe produces too much flow and that the 2 inch downpipe may help add enough back pressure to divert exhaust flow into the wastegate? I'll definitely purchase smaller downpipes if that is the case. Whatcha think?
That makes zero sense if the wastegate is actually opening. If the wastegate is open, then the only pressure that would matter is the change across the turbine (which is what is being bypassed by the gate). A low downstream pressure would only help flow more across the same gate orifice.

staticki is on the right track. You need to verify that the wastegate is actually opening. Make sure you are applying positive pressure to the correct side of the diaphragm on the wastegate in order to push it open against spring pressure. Test this with a regulated pressure source to make sure it's working before you go any further.
TurboLX is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 03:29 PM
  #7  
Chris Stewart
CF Senior Member
 
Chris Stewart's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2000
Location: Gainesville, TX
Posts: 4,270
Received 53 Likes on 46 Posts
Default

I believe it's entirely possible. This problem didn't exist with TTiX until the 3" DP came out. Then we started seeing reports of it. As an example on my TTiX setup, when I changed from stock (chambered) mufflers to Borla (straight thru), I observed a 3psi boost increase simply due to lack of back pressure in the exhaust. I was still able to turn it back down though... I ran 2.5" DP and never encountered the boost control issue that others have seen with 3" DP, but my example shows the effect of exhaust backpressure on the system. With a 2.5" DP, 900hp was becoming common and the 3" pipes were for people wanting to surpass 1000hp. In my opinion, since he's on a stock motor, the 2.5 DP is a better choice anyway.
Chris Stewart is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 04:20 PM
  #8  
Turbo-Geist
CF Senior Member
 
Turbo-Geist's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,908
Received 131 Likes on 113 Posts
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
Default

Originally Posted by TurboLX View Post
That makes zero sense if the wastegate is actually opening. If the wastegate is open, then the only pressure that would matter is the change across the turbine (which is what is being bypassed by the gate). A low downstream pressure would only help flow more across the same gate orifice.

staticki is on the right track. You need to verify that the wastegate is actually opening. Make sure you are applying positive pressure to the correct side of the diaphragm on the wastegate in order to push it open against spring pressure. Test this with a regulated pressure source to make sure it's working before you go any further.

Turbochargers work due to pressure differential. Exhaust flows from high pressure pre-turbine wheel and expands to low pressure post turbine wheel. In this case, the pressure post turbine is lower and less restrictive than the path the flow would have to take to exit the gate.

Make sure you understand how this specific kit is configured. It places the gate exit inside the turbine housing and 90 degrees to the intended flow path as shown in these two pictures.

Turbo-Geist is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 04:41 PM
  #9  
Turbo-Geist
CF Senior Member
 
Turbo-Geist's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,908
Received 131 Likes on 113 Posts
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
Default

I'm the guy that completely removed the waste gates.

Originally Posted by Turbo-Geist View Post
Not to leave anything untested, I completely removed the wastegates from the system. Straight tubes, open to atmosphere.

Here's the data:

TPS goes 100% by 3000 rpm

RPM -------- Boost

3300 -------- 3.0 psi

4000 -------- 6.3 psi

4400 -------- 9.3 psi

5000 -------- 15.2 psi

5200 -------- 18.5 psi

Pull was actually stopped at 5147 rpm but it was clear where this one was headed.

Here's a screen shot:
Turbo-Geist is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 05:32 PM
  #10  
Turbo-Geist
CF Senior Member
 
Turbo-Geist's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,908
Received 131 Likes on 113 Posts
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
Default

Originally Posted by SpeedRite View Post
Grandsport Corvette (LS3) Stock engine/heads.
BTR twin turbo cam.
TTIX with PT 62/65 turbos and Champion 3 inch down pipes. Z06 3 inch midpipe and Akrapovic Axle back.

I'm having the same issue that it seems many have had. I can't make anything less than 18lbs. Currently my tune is limited to 4800RPM and e85. This is with a 3lb wastegate spring running on just spring pressure.

I've read about porting the wastegate port on the turbine housing. Does anyone have first hand knowledge if this really works?

I've also purchased 46mm wastegates.

I've also read about the one person who installed wastegates on the turbine housing. That is a last resort.

Any other recommendations?
You've got a turbo kit that is very reliable and well-suited for stock displacement engines. I held on to mine for about 8 years. I didn't have any issues until I bolted it to a 427 using the 6265s and a 3" downpipe after I was told by the manufacturer that it would work.

I'll lay out the obvious options:

a. Install the 2.5" downpipes and if needed a 2.5" cat-back exhaust system. The TTiX downpipes are actually 2.25" inside diameter last time I checked so they go a long way towards introducing some back-pressure into the system. Be aware this may only net you a 3 to 4 psi drop. Your turbo camshaft coupled with the E85 means you have a much larger volume of exhaust flowing through the system. At the end of the day, this waste gate port and location is only going to pass a limited amount of exhaust.

b. Place a waste gate on the intercooler and use a boost controller to control it. By venting boost pressure, you will limit the amount of airflow to the engine which will in turn reduce exhaust flow. This slows down the turbine wheel and allows the wastegates to work within their designed flow range. I had a coupler separate once between the compressor and the intercooler and the car wouldn't hardly create any manifold pressure. The only downside to this is increasing the load on the intercooler. You are compressing air and cooling it in the intercooler and then releasing it to the atmosphere without using it. Of course the act of venting it reduces the overall system pressure so it may not be a big deal. Putting a waste gate on the intercooler has the best chance of success (~10 psi) and is the easiest option to try. I wish I would have tried it first.

c. Modify turbine housings and install larger gates - I would not try that again with this kit. The exhaust turbine housings are way too small and the exhaust velocity and pressure stays high. A majority of the flow wants to go through the turbine wheel instead of out the waste gate port. Not enough flow passes through the gate at peak torque and above to make a difference.

Turbo-Geist is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 09:47 PM
  #11  
Chris Stewart
CF Senior Member
 
Chris Stewart's Avatar
 
Member Since: Apr 2000
Location: Gainesville, TX
Posts: 4,270
Received 53 Likes on 46 Posts
Default

I knew a guy with a 427, 3" DP, and the Turbonetics 57mm's. He was on a 2 bar MAP and only ran 14-15psi. It seems the TTiX combination of 3" DP and the billet wheel Precision 6265's is hard to tame. Option d. turn it up!
Chris Stewart is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:07 PM
  #12  
Turbo-Geist
CF Senior Member
 
Turbo-Geist's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,908
Received 131 Likes on 113 Posts
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
Default

I bet those 57s couldn't deliver enough airflow to make much more.

He can only turn it up another 5 to 6 psi and it won't be as efficient at that point thanks to the 0.82 a/r housings. This kit works the best at 1000rw and below.
Turbo-Geist is offline  
Old 06-27-2018, 10:32 PM
  #13  
Turbo-Geist
CF Senior Member
 
Turbo-Geist's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,908
Received 131 Likes on 113 Posts
2018 Corvette of Year Finalist
2017 C5 of Year Finalist
Default

Bueller?

Last edited by Turbo-Geist; 06-27-2018 at 10:33 PM.
Turbo-Geist is offline  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:14 AM
  #14  
SpeedRite
CF Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Oct 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Game plan:
-Open up Wastegate ports.
-Install 46 mm wastegates.
-Source 2 inch down pipes.
-In the mean time, install muffler inserts in an attempt to create back pressure. If that works, scratch the down pipe swap.
-Cross fingers and hope something I've done works.
-Secretly stash funds unbenounced to my very recently made
​​wife, build engine, turn up all the boost.
SpeedRite is offline  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:18 AM
  #15  
wesam
CF Senior Member
 
Member Since: Jul 2009
Posts: 105
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

- Install a cam which could help with high back pressure TTiX system I managed to make 14 psi with 8.9 springs with LS9 cam 6265 and 3" down pipes with 408 engine and managed to make 8 psi all the way up to 5800 RPM and 11 from 6000-6700 RPM with 4 PSI springs

Last edited by wesam; 06-28-2018 at 12:19 AM.
wesam is offline  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:20 AM
  #16  
SpeedRite
CF Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Oct 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I vaguely remember reading an article about installing a wastegate on the intercooler. If memory serves correct, doesn't that risk damaging the compressor wheel? I don't remember the science of why.
SpeedRite is offline  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:24 AM
  #17  
SpeedRite
CF Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Oct 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by wesam View Post
- Install a cam which could help with high back pressure TTiX system I managed to make 14 psi with 8.9 springs with LS9 cam 6265 and 3" down pipes with 408 engine and managed to make 8 psi all the way up to 5800 RPM and 11 from 6000-6700 RPM with 4 PSI springs
That's a new idea. I have had the thought that the cam I've installed is actually causing me more headache than help. Being that it's producing much more exhaust flow. I'll save this for a last resort.
SpeedRite is offline  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:27 AM
  #18  
SpeedRite
CF Member
Thread Starter
 
Member Since: Oct 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Ironically, I removed an APS turbo kit (base not z06 kit) from my car after only being installed two years, because it produced too much back pressure and boost dropped up top.

Now I find myself looking for ways to add back pressure to the new kit in a vein attempt to lower boost up top.
SpeedRite is offline  
Old 06-28-2018, 09:25 AM
  #19  
slow ride
CF Senior Member
 
slow ride's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2006
Location: New Hartford IA
Posts: 1,559
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

In my opinion the best way to open it up would be to mill/bore/port the housings so that the gate flow is at least around a 45 degree entry to the inlet flange placing a lot more priority to the gate. This will take some nice fab work, welding and possibly changing the downpipe flange to help line up the gate tube more with flow. I think it will be a lot of messing around and might work out even with the smaller gate, but when the flow is 90 degrees from the main channel of gas flow it's not really going to work that well on a sensitive setup. I'd hate to see people run smaller exhaust to "fix" the problem when turbos respond so well to as little back pressure as possible.
slow ride is offline  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:41 AM
  #20  
Frans96ss
Supporting Vendor
 
Frans96ss's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jul 2005
Location: New Castle Del.
Posts: 7,404
Received 331 Likes on 201 Posts
St. Jude Donor '09
Default

Originally Posted by SpeedRite View Post
Sounds like theres a general consensus that the three inch downpipe produces too much flow and that the 2 inch downpipe may help add enough back pressure to divert exhaust flow into the wastegate? I'll definitely purchase smaller downpipes if that is the case. Whatcha think?

Thats the complete opposite of what would happen.... This is typical with TTIX kits... We have seen it numerous times.
__________________
Race Proven Motorsports (TAX FREE HORSEPOWER)
SAM Racing
YouTube
FACEBOOK PAGE
302-798-4000
IG @RaceProvenMotorsports

Delawares Number One LSX Performance Shop
Frans96ss is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Ttix no boost control


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: