Should I switch to 2” Headers and which one is best??
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Should I switch to 2” Headers and which one is best??
I’m currently running a set of the original Pfadt 1 3/4” headers and catted X (with the cats gutted) on my car.
It’s a SBE LS3, GM CNC ported heads, VR PD-1 cam (223/238 ~.610/.623, 118+4), with a Heartbeat blower making ~12.5 psi of max boost. I’m pretty sure that I’m leaving some power on the table with the 1 3/4” Pfadts, but I don’t have any idea how much. I bought these headers back in 2013, mainly because I had bought into that whole “Tri-Y is best for torque”, B.S. and because after some research back then, I saw they were a high quality, good fitting header set. Also, at that time, I hadn’t really intended on doing much with the Vette, so max power wasn’t the objective, but that mantra kinda got lost along the way.
But now I’m pondering whether and, if so, which header to change to? I started looking at the LG 1 7/8” Super Pros a while back, since they seem to be a good deal, but I see that nowadays, most people tout the ARH 2” as the overall HP champ, but they are the most expensive by far. I”m also looking at the Kooks 2” with the catless Y. I’m just not sure what difference they will make on a boosted LS3.
So, for those of you who have done the switch, or know of others who have gone from a 1 3/4” to either the LG 1 7/8” or the ARH or Kooks 2” on an LS3, please give me your opinion as to whether it would be worth me spending another $2k++ (I have to ship them overseas and pay 27% tax on the cost, insurance and freight) on this. Thanks.
It’s a SBE LS3, GM CNC ported heads, VR PD-1 cam (223/238 ~.610/.623, 118+4), with a Heartbeat blower making ~12.5 psi of max boost. I’m pretty sure that I’m leaving some power on the table with the 1 3/4” Pfadts, but I don’t have any idea how much. I bought these headers back in 2013, mainly because I had bought into that whole “Tri-Y is best for torque”, B.S. and because after some research back then, I saw they were a high quality, good fitting header set. Also, at that time, I hadn’t really intended on doing much with the Vette, so max power wasn’t the objective, but that mantra kinda got lost along the way.
But now I’m pondering whether and, if so, which header to change to? I started looking at the LG 1 7/8” Super Pros a while back, since they seem to be a good deal, but I see that nowadays, most people tout the ARH 2” as the overall HP champ, but they are the most expensive by far. I”m also looking at the Kooks 2” with the catless Y. I’m just not sure what difference they will make on a boosted LS3.
So, for those of you who have done the switch, or know of others who have gone from a 1 3/4” to either the LG 1 7/8” or the ARH or Kooks 2” on an LS3, please give me your opinion as to whether it would be worth me spending another $2k++ (I have to ship them overseas and pay 27% tax on the cost, insurance and freight) on this. Thanks.
#2
I wouldn't bother in terms of a cost vs benefit at this point. ARH 2" if starting from scratch.
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CI GS (07-04-2018)
#3
Safety Car
I bought some ARH 2” headers but I won’t be putting them on until next month.
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CI GS (07-04-2018)
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CI GS (07-04-2018)
#5
Le Mans Master
Doubt you'll see much benefit with the blower. The blower's going to dominate over any scavenging effects of the headers.
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CI GS (07-04-2018)
#6
Team Owner
While I can't stand Pfadt headers, and they are not helping, the cost to change and the minimal gains on a blower setup won't be worth it. Keep it as is, and enjoy. Focus on a smaller pulley or fuel/octane if you need more power.
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CI GS (07-04-2018)
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CI GS (07-04-2018)
#8
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately, I will probably leave it alone for now. I would change them if I could find someone around here to buy them off me cheap, but there’s only a handful of C6s around here, and none that are modified except mine and another one that already has LGs on it. I have the smallest blower pulley that can fit on it, and I’m running Sunoco GT260 Plus for now, so I’m pretty much tapped out on boost and octane. May look into E85 in the future though, so I can add some timing. Need to concentrate on getting some traction now though. Got a new pair of M/T ET Street Rs that I’m going to test soon...
#9
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
What headers are you running now? Would love to see a dyno test if you do one. I swear I saw a thread sometime back where one of the big shops tested the Pfadts vs. the ARHs and the ARH header made way more power, but I can’t remember if it was the same size primaries or not.
#10
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
#11
Safety Car
What headers are you running now? Would love to see a dyno test if you do one. I swear I saw a thread sometime back where one of the big shops tested the Pfadts vs. the ARHs and the ARH header made way more power, but I can’t remember if it was the same size primaries or not.
#12
Team Owner
What headers are you running now? Would love to see a dyno test if you do one. I swear I saw a thread sometime back where one of the big shops tested the Pfadts vs. the ARHs and the ARH header made way more power, but I can’t remember if it was the same size primaries or not.
#13
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
#14
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Happens all the time, like 20-40rwhp gains, but that is on a N/A motor. On a blower motor, your blower is spinning the same, so you might gain a bit down low, and boost may go down to 10-11 from the better flow, but power won't shoot up a ton. Now if you pulley down to get to the same boost, then you may see a nice gain, or you can just do that now and run 13-14psi.
I’m pretty much maxed out pulley-wise, with the smallest pulley that can fit on the blower (that’s the bane of the C6 Heartbeat) unless I switch to the 15% OD IW balancer, which I don’t see happening anytime soon. I’ve been struggling with belt slip as well, but I will cure that one way or the other, even if I have to spray Track Bite on the damn belt to make a pass. So I was thinking maybe a little less boost will help with belt slip too, by lowering the load on the blower at high RPM.
I’ll wait to see what Detoxx does. If I can’t get this setup to work, I may just pull it off and do a D1-X setup like he’s running.
#15
Team Owner
Or just enjoy it as is
When are you going around, ripping it to redline, and thinking yourself "damn I wish I had more power"
When are you going around, ripping it to redline, and thinking yourself "damn I wish I had more power"
#16
Le Mans Master
Ahhh shoot Sammy. I had LG pros at 1.75" primaries on my first Maggified LS3 (jackshaft TVS2300). With a 3.3" pulley, it did 640ish at 9psi with a very mild blower cam (219/231 115lsa).
My most recent Maggified LS3 used a Heartbeat TVS2300. It had a 3.2" pulley, Pfadt 1.875 headers, and did 640ish at 10psi. Cam was also bigger at a 224/234 116+2. Both of these were dynoed on a Dynojet.. The Heartbeat blown LS3 got up to 660ish with the addition of meth. Different dynos, different days, etc. The jackshaft Maggie also felt faster.
Summary....The Heartbeat is supposed to be superior at similar boost levels. Yet, it made similar power, at higher boost, at a faster blower speed, with a bigger cam, on the same type dyno.
Just my experience....your results may vary.
My most recent Maggified LS3 used a Heartbeat TVS2300. It had a 3.2" pulley, Pfadt 1.875 headers, and did 640ish at 10psi. Cam was also bigger at a 224/234 116+2. Both of these were dynoed on a Dynojet.. The Heartbeat blown LS3 got up to 660ish with the addition of meth. Different dynos, different days, etc. The jackshaft Maggie also felt faster.
Summary....The Heartbeat is supposed to be superior at similar boost levels. Yet, it made similar power, at higher boost, at a faster blower speed, with a bigger cam, on the same type dyno.
Just my experience....your results may vary.
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CI GS (07-04-2018)
#17
Intermediate
Posted this in another thread, but I got zero HP up top when I switched from stock manifolds to 2" ARH headers with A&A si blower (7 psi), heads, and E85. I did gain 10 wtq up top, and 10-20 hp/tq on the low end and midrange. I wish I would have got a nice cam, pullied down, or upgraded the blower. Oh well... at least the car sounds better now.
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CI GS (07-04-2018)
#18
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
#19
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Posted this in another thread, but I got zero HP up top when I switched from stock manifolds to 2" ARH headers with A&A si blower (7 psi), heads, and E85. I did gain 10 wtq up top, and 10-20 hp/tq on the low end and midrange. I wish I would have got a nice cam, pullied down, or upgraded the blower. Oh well... at least the car sounds better now.
#20
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Ahhh shoot Sammy. I had LG pros at 1.75" primaries on my first Maggified LS3 (jackshaft TVS2300). With a 3.3" pulley, it did 640ish at 9psi with a very mild blower cam (219/231 115lsa).
My most recent Maggified LS3 used a Heartbeat TVS2300. It had a 3.2" pulley, Pfadt 1.875 headers, and did 640ish at 10psi. Cam was also bigger at a 224/234 116+2. Both of these were dynoed on a Dynojet.. The Heartbeat blown LS3 got up to 660ish with the addition of meth. Different dynos, different days, etc. The jackshaft Maggie also felt faster.
Summary....The Heartbeat is supposed to be superior at similar boost levels. Yet, it made similar power, at higher boost, at a faster blower speed, with a bigger cam, on the same type dyno.
Just my experience....your results may vary.
My most recent Maggified LS3 used a Heartbeat TVS2300. It had a 3.2" pulley, Pfadt 1.875 headers, and did 640ish at 10psi. Cam was also bigger at a 224/234 116+2. Both of these were dynoed on a Dynojet.. The Heartbeat blown LS3 got up to 660ish with the addition of meth. Different dynos, different days, etc. The jackshaft Maggie also felt faster.
Summary....The Heartbeat is supposed to be superior at similar boost levels. Yet, it made similar power, at higher boost, at a faster blower speed, with a bigger cam, on the same type dyno.
Just my experience....your results may vary.
Man, I wish I could remember the name of the ***** from Texas who talked me into buying mine...