Turbo6TA

This question may be a little like the Ford vs Chevy discussions you might hear at a car show ... no winner ... and can't change anyone's fixed opinion
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I have a 2011 GS / A6 I purchased new back in 2011. The car has now 17,000 miles

The only mods done to the car is a set of Pfadt headers with catted x-pipe, a set of Borla 'Touring' mufflers and a dyno tune.

The car makes 405 RWHP and 401 RWTQ on the DynoJet.

I was thinking about installing a roots type supercharger ... Either a Magnuson 'Heartbeat (01-23-62-265-BL) ... or an Edelbrock 'E-Force' Stage 1 (1590)

The Magnuson without a programmer cost $7,915 at Bryan Tooley Racing ... The Edelbrock Stage 1 with the programmer cost $7,365 at Summit Racing

With the standard pulleys that come with both these kits, would you expect to see a max of about 7 psi of boost? ... or would one of these kits make more boost vs the other, with it's supplied standard pulley?

How about 'bang for the buck' .... Do one of these kits really perform much better than the other?

Thanks,
Ron

Turbo6TA

BTW ... The reason I wanted to compare the Edelbrock stage 1 with the Magnuson is that the Edelbrock stage 1 uses the stock OEM fuel pump (I don't really want to mess with changing / adding another fuel pump to the car).

.

CI GS

Turbo6TA

CI GS .... Thanks for the input

Along with my Pfadt headers, what do you guestimate the RWHP might be on my GS / A6 after adding the 'Heartbeat' while still using the stock fueling system along with a slightly smaller 93mm pulley?

Do you see a solid 7 PSI of boost with a stock diameter harmonic balancer and using that slightly smaller 93mm drive pulley?

Ron,

CI GS

Yep, You're going see about 1 psi for every incremental 3mm drop in blower pulley size. I'm just guessing about HP numbers, since every dyno produces different numbers anyhow. Hopefully someone like oldmotorhead will chime in soon - he knows a lot about this stuff. Don't tell him I said that, though.
Having said that, I would "guesstimate" that you'll see about 110-120 whp gain with the blower with a 96mm and gain about another 20whp for every additional 1psi of boost?? I wouldn't waste time with the 93, to be honest. The 90mm works great. I loved how my car ran with that. But, as always, I just couldn't leave well enough alone and got carried away with it.

Turbo6TA

Again, thanks for your response !

Yup, going from a 96 to a 93mm pulley seems like kind of a waste, but if I was [not] to upgrade the stock fuel pump at all, I am thinking that anything smaller than a 93mm pulley might make just enough boost as to cause the engine to go lean at WOT.

CI GS

I understand. I think you may get away without using a BAP with the 93mm, but probably not with the 90mm. Whatever you do, get yourself a Racetronix FPWH. That's the best 70 bucks you'll ever spend and its super easy to install, and, in the event that you want to install a BAP, it already has a plug to connect the BAP to. Eliminating the voltage drop of the stock FP harness will have some, albeit small, effect on fuel delivery, and much more so if you have a good aftermarket alternator.
Here's a link:
https://www.racetronix.biz/product.asp?ic=fpwh-008

Garymorris

You will most likely be limited by the injectors that come in the kit before you hit the fuel pump limit. Also, you should be able to get the heartbeat without tune for less than $7900. JDP was significantly cheaper than that when I ordered mine a couple months ago.

Turbo6TA

Gary Morris brings up a good point .... The tune

My GS was tuned on the DynoJet after installing the headers. If I add a supercharger, obviously it will need to be re-tuned

Are the hand-held tuning gizmos that some of these superchargers come with give as good results as a good dynotune on the rollers?

Maybe it would be a waste of money getting the SC kit with the tuning, but still need to have it pro-tuned by someone on the dyno?

I am still not sure if this 'Heartbeat' SC comes with a hang-held tuner gizmo (with some 'canned tune' in it .... or not) ? ? ?

Unreal

The tuner it will come with is useless unless you are are stock. So get a "tuner" kit without the tuner, and if possible without injectors. Source your own injectors and then have it tuned.

old motorhead

Unless things have changed, the "tuner" kit comes sans tune and injectors. If you get the street legal kit, it comes with small injectors and a hand held tuner loaded with a really crappy tune. You have long tube headers so the tune that comes with the street legal version isn't for you....unless you want to put your stock exhaust, and anything else you changed or removed, back on. As in return the engine to bone stock before installing the 'charger. And you have to leave the engine bone stock, adding just the 'charger along with keeping the stock blower pulley. I'd do something way different vs adding just the blower.

Turbo6TA

Well, I called Magnuson and they didn't answer there phone, so I called Lingenfelter since they also sell the Heartbeat.

Lingenfelter told me the Heartbeat kit for the LS3 Corvette only comes with the little hand-held tuner ... not available without it (like the kit for the Camaro)

So, buy the Heartbeat and throw the tuner in the trash can ... then get the car dyno tuned on the rollers ... (seems like a waste of money to pay for the tuner you won't even use).

Garymorris

Well I bought a heartbeat without the tuner 2 months ago so I would say Lingenfelter once again doesn't know what they are talking about. Call any of the magnuson dealers and ask for a price without the tuner (I was told they no longer sell it without injectors but it was no problem to delete the tune). FYI I paid around 7200 for the complete kit without the tuner.

CI GS

Turbo6TA

'Garymorris' stated that he paid about $7,200 for his Heartbeat without the tune .... If I may ask .... Is that about you paid for yours without the tune?

Unreal

CPR does a lot of heartbeats. Jared at super chargers online would be a great place too. Lpe isn't a shop or place I would ask for advice.

CI GS

Turbo6TA

Well, I contacted David at Superchargers Online today. There website price for the LS3 Heartbeat kit with the hand-held tuner is $7,915
http://www.superchargersonline.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5 06_1077_1078_1123_1493&products_id=7664

They will sell this same system without the tuner for $7,715 ($200 less)

Since I am not in California, I will not be charged sales tax, and Dave said he could offer me free shipping to my home in Florida.

It would not bother me to install this SC myself, but I want no part of going through the nut-roll of pinning the harmonic balancer (a real pain) ... Since the OEM balancer is known to fail on these cars, I plan on purchasing a Dayco Powerbond (standard diameter) balancer from Summit Racing at a cost of $223 Shipped.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pbb-pb1117ss

QUESTION: Lets say I just have a shop install all of this, to include pinning the HB .... Anyone have any idea as to what the labor only charge might be (not including the cost of the dyno tune) ???

Ron,
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Here is my sweetheart:

Attachment 48336725

Attachment 48331114

divesheik

I am also thinking about installing the heartbeat kit on my 2008 C6. I too do not want to deal with the balancer. Does the one you mention at Summit Racing not require the drilling?

Turbo6TA

All balancers will require drilling. Most aftermarket balancers have a key-way in them, but unfortunatly GM didn't machine a key-way in the end of the LS crankshaft, so it will need to be drilled and a pin installed.

The Heartbeat kit comes with the drill bit, a fixture for aligning the bit, and a pin, so the only extra things you will need to buy is a new crank bolt and a new crankshaft seal.

I installed the Heartbeat SC myself, but I paid a local shop to install the new balancer and pin it (pain in the *** job).

BTW .... When I purchased my Heartbeat, I paid $7,500 with no tax and free shipping from TPS Motorsports (this was without the hand-held tuner and canned tune) ... I had mine dyno tuned instead.