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'05 TVS2300 max 8 rib front pulley diameter w/RK sport hood?

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'05 TVS2300 max 8 rib front pulley diameter w/RK sport hood?

 
Old 07-11-2019, 09:10 AM
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Default '05 TVS2300 max 8 rib front pulley diameter w/RK sport hood?

I'm trying to figure out what pulley configuration to run on this car currently getting forged bottom and upgrading the MP112 to TVS2300. The direction I seem to be leaning towards is running swapped rear pulleys(Griptec) to be overdriven and that would allow me to run a healthy diameter front pulley(8 rib) in the 3.5" range for what I currently assume will achieve our HP goal. I'm wondering if/or at what point clearance becomes an issue for the front pulley. Thanks
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Old 07-12-2019, 07:51 AM
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What are your power goals? I've had as small as a 3.1" pulley on the front of a jackshaft Maggie. That was before I knew about the pulley swap in the back. I even bought 1:1 rears from a Camaro guy and gave away my over/under rear pulleys. What I didn't know back then is pretty comical.

There's a guy on here that reversed the rear pulleys and ran a 3.8" up front. He made around 700 at the wheels, but this was an LS3 with a blower cam. Boost was around 11 psi if memory serves. His name is Raj, but I don't remember his screen name. You'll pick up 1+psi and 15ish rwhp for every tenth you reduce pulley size from there. That's assuming you can keep IAT's reasonable. And that's a BIG assumption. Much smaller than a 3.8" up front and you have reached the point of diminishing returns. You'll need meth for sure. There's plenty of these type builds over on the Camaro5 forum.

Or, rig up for E85. I've done 3 TVS 2300 builds. If I ever do another one, E85 will be in the mix. That will keep the combustion chamber cooler (you won't see measurable IAT improvement though) and give you needed octane.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:59 AM
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Hi old motorhead, funny you chime in, I started typing you a PM 2 days ago and ended up not sending it.. You seem to have played around with these a little. So I guess I can give the long story of the can of worms I've opened. '05 Vette, Lingenfelter installed MP112(so a few components of the blower kit are different(their air intake, 100mm MAF,KB BAP, heat exchanger)) we later added stiegemeier blower porting, 6 rib 3.1 upper pulley, IW 10% OD crank (8.125") alky control LS7 manifolds and modded mufflers with 3" corsa X in between car made 519 rwhp/519rwtq on 91 octane. The rear belt was slipping from being loose, didn't realize it was the rear belt at the time. I verified later with a Kriket after that it was loose. Car still made 10psi from down low and fell a bit above 5k. Car ran awesome

Fast forward to now, he wants a little more power so he wanted some ARH 1 7/8 headers with catted X pipe. I suggested doing a cam, so we went with a BTR PDS stage 2 cam with their .660 springs, their better trunnion upgrade(TK002?) well 69k miles we should maybe do the lifters......so off came the heads, heads were off let's send them to Katech. Well heads are off let's throw some -3.2cc Wiseco's(compression should be 10.5:1 ish (4.005") and compstar rods. Upgraded the fuel pump to Z06 drop in and ran the 2 racetronix harness pieces with the BAP in the LR fender. Well I'm looking at the MP112 and well it's just maxed out.....so ordered Box 1 TVS 2300 kit. Going 8 rib. So while I wait for Magnuson to build the blower I have to figure out what blower RPM gets me to his goal of 625 rwhp, if we overshoot that to 660 I'm good with that. So from looking at charts i found looks like what equates to the low/mid 17,000rpm level. That would be 13.5 psi boost according to my math(aka guess). Now there are a few ways to skin this cat. 1st off rear cogs are out of the question. So either I run 1:1 rear and 3.1 upper giving me 17,036rpm @ 6500rpm, or I would think ideally swap the rear pulleys(I'd go griptec OD 16%) on the rear and go 3.6" front for basically the same RPM....more belt wrap on the front. 17,[email protected] Question is, does that front pulley fit? Trying to get my ducks in a row as the TVS is 10-15 business days out plus a week shipping from CA to ME. We will probably have snow on the ground by then so the more I figure out now the better.

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Old 07-13-2019, 06:20 AM
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I'm pretty sure I ran a 3.1" while my rear pulleys were underdriven. It was a 6 rib though. I can't imagine an extra two ribs being a problem the way that jackshaft is rigged. I think running that pulley with 1:1 rears would be asking for trouble (belt slip) though. I'd run the rear pulleys your blower will come with. At least they used to come with a 3.0 driving a 3.49 in the rear. Just swap them around. I don't think you need GripTecs back there. A 3.8 or 3.7 front would easily hit your power numbers with 3.49 driving a 3.0 on the rear. Way less likely to slip that way. With ported heads and that BTR cam, boost shouldn't be too high either. I think you're set up really well.

You might consider a heat exchanger and coolant pump upgrade though. That MP112 heat exchanger leaves a lot to be desired. The Heartbeat h/e is a good one and I've heard that the EForce h/e is good too. Here's a test LPE did on some of the available pumps. http://www.lingenfelter.com/forum_li...esting-results. Just avoid the Maziere pumps. They promise a lot, but don't deliver. Plus, they don't last long at all. I had two of those. Waste of time and money.

Don't hesitate to get in touch. Maybe I can save you from making some of the mistakes I made along the way. Best of luck!
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:08 PM
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Thanks again for your feedback. The car has never had the Maguson heat exchanger, when Lingenfelter installed the blower, they used a much shorter/thicker one that bolts beneath the front bumper. Kind of makes sense that it would be a better piece? I assume airflow to the condensor/radiator is less impeded, and possibly the air rushing up to the condensor/radiator behind the heat exhanger makes a lower pressure area which helps increase airflow across the heat exchanger. I could just be a lunatic for thinking that. I have seen the Lingenfelter pump test. I'll revisit it. Also, keep in mind I assume there is a pretty good difference between your climate(probably close to the hottest in the United States, versus my father live literally in the Northeasternmost town in the United States.
As far as your thoughts on achieving the mid 600rwhp with a 3.8 or 3.7(assuming overdriven rear) only confuses me more....haha since I assume there has to be a max diameter pulley that fits the front. I just hate to wait till the blower arrive in a few weeks, to mock it all up and then order more parts and wait for them to arrive and then make an appointment with the tuner which is a 7 hour drive from me.

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Old 07-13-2019, 02:53 PM
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I'm pretty sure the gen5 Camaro jackshaft 2300 came with a 3.8" drive pulley. My LS3 Heartbeat kit came with a 96mm pulley (very slightly smaller than 3.8) I'm 99% sure that 3.8" pulley will fit. And, if you do go that route, you won't need an 8 rib set up. Seems like you could increase the diameter of an idler pulley to increase belt wrap on the blower pulley also. I've slept too many times since then to remember all of that stuff..... I don't know what all of those 8 rib pulleys cost now, but, they used to be fairly expensive. In addition to the Maggie pulley, you'll need a crank pulley, alternator, and power steering pulleys. Maybe different idler pulleys and tensioner too.

I ran my front drive Heartbeat with a 3.2" front pulley and had a little trouble with belt slip. Using the shortest belt that that 2 guys could pry on there along with a Gatorback (now Continental Elite) belt cured it. On a jackshaft 2300, the 3.8 front with the o/d rears is about the same drive ratio as a 3.2 with direct drive. MUCH less likely to slip. The Heartbeat rig did 660/610 on meth if memory serves. Boost peaked at 10psi at about 3000 rpm and stayed a 9.5psi everywhere else during the run. I think the numbers would have been better without the Pfadt tri Y headers and a better set of headers. My jackshaft Maggie did 640 at the wheels running 1:1 rears and a 3.3" front. Boost about 9psi. Both of those done with stock LS3 heads along with a much milder blower cam than what you're using.

A good guy to talk to is Brian at superchargersonline.com. He used to be Magnuson's sales manager before going out on his own. He's a good source of info on these blowers as well as a good source for parts, etc.

I thought I may be able to help you with my selection of TVS pulleys. Dug them out of the garage, and they are all 6 rib and from my dumb days of trying to push the 2300 with the back pulleys underdriven. 2.8, 2.9, and 3.0. Shoot.

On the heat exchanger, try what you have and see what your IAT's are. Never paid much attention to them with the jackshaft Maggie, but did with a front drive truck 2300 and a Heartbeat 2300. Both of those cruised around 15 to 20 over ambient and would go up 25ish degrees above than on a 40 to 140 sprint. Recovery happened pretty quick if you were moving and had more than fan airflow through the coolers.

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Old 07-13-2019, 04:37 PM
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I'll talk to Brian, but I have been talking to David @ superchargersonline. He's the one I've ordered the TVS2300 through. I'm doing the 8 rib for sure, the car already has the 8.125" 10% IW OD crank pulley so that's half the cost of the 8 rib upgrade.. Again, my biggest concern is hood clearance with a big front pulley. What you're telling me about your boost/pulley combo matches the boost/cubic inch/pulley chart I've seen online quite closely. They use a cog rear OD which is 20% vs swapping the rears which is 16%, so apples to apples according to the chart a 3.8" pulley(20% OD rear) makes 10psi on 6.2 , and with the same pulley makes 11 psi on LS2. Although boost numbers mean ziltch to me, aside from being the means to the end(power) Thanks again.

Last edited by streetking408ys; 07-13-2019 at 04:48 PM. Reason: i'm dumb
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:04 PM
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Sounds like you have a really good grasp on all of the variables. Looking forward to your results. Regardless of the numbers, it's going to be a really fun ride. Enjoy the journey!
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:29 PM
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was gonna chime in, but then realized yours is a C6 & not a direct correlation... but for what it's worth

i ran a 6rib 2.9 on my LS1 2300 for a couple years with the rear underdriven until i traded the staggered pulleys for a Camaro friend's 1:1s then put on my original 3.3 for the same-ish blower speed.
last year, i bought a cog overdrive & 3.8 to turn it up a little... and then did the IW OD 8rib crank (still a 6rib setup, though). with a BTR Stg 3 PD cam, built 243s, & full exhaust, my LS1's making about 13psi.
no clearance issues front or rear with my Kenne Bell hood (unless you have the LS3 blower manifold - the passenger fuel rail has to be clearanced to fit the OD cog).

if your aversion to the cogs is the constant whine, then the ones you've listened to are too tight. looking at Magnuson's install guide, it calls for enough slack to twist 45, and with that, it's relatively quiet until you get on it. another trick i've seen is to drill small air pressure relief holes into the troughs of the cogs.
either way, at least overdriving it to drive a bigger front pulley & giving you more belt wrap is the key.
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Old 07-13-2019, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by _zebra View Post
was gonna chime in, but then realized yours is a C6 & not a direct correlation... but for what it's worth

i ran a 6rib 2.9 on my LS1 2300 for a couple years with the rear underdriven until i traded the staggered pulleys for a Camaro friend's 1:1s then put on my original 3.3 for the same-ish blower speed.
last year, i bought a cog overdrive & 3.8 to turn it up a little... and then did the IW OD 8rib crank (still a 6rib setup, though). with a BTR Stg 3 PD cam, built 243s, & full exhaust, my LS1's making about 13psi.
no clearance issues front or rear with my Kenne Bell hood (unless you have the LS3 blower manifold - the passenger fuel rail has to be clearanced to fit the OD cog).

if your aversion to the cogs is the constant whine, then the ones you've listened to are too tight. looking at Magnuson's install guide, it calls for enough slack to twist 45, and with that, it's relatively quiet until you get on it. another trick i've seen is to drill small air pressure relief holes into the troughs of the cogs.
either way, at least overdriving it to drive a bigger front pulley & giving you more belt wrap is the key.
Does the passenger side fuel rail need to be clearanced with the stock o/d pulleys or just with the cogged rear pulleys?
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by streetking408ys View Post
I'll talk to Brian, but I have been talking to David @ superchargersonline. He's the one I've ordered the TVS2300 through. I'm doing the 8 rib for sure, the car already has the 8.125" 10% IW OD crank pulley so that's half the cost of the 8 rib upgrade.. Again, my biggest concern is hood clearance with a big front pulley. What you're telling me about your boost/pulley combo matches the boost/cubic inch/pulley chart I've seen online quite closely. They use a cog rear OD which is 20% vs swapping the rears which is 16%, so apples to apples according to the chart a 3.8" pulley(20% OD rear) makes 10psi on 6.2 , and with the same pulley makes 11 psi on LS2. Although boost numbers mean ziltch to me, aside from being the means to the end(power) Thanks again.
That's going to be a really nasty girl with the o/d rears, 3.8 front, and the o/d crank pulley...Should be fun. I can't imagine hood clearance being a problem.
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Old 07-13-2019, 08:55 PM
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if your aversion to the cogs is the constant whine, then the ones you've listened to are too tight. looking at Magnuson's install guide, it calls for enough slack to twist 45, and with that, it's relatively quiet until you get on it. another trick i've seen is to drill small air pressure relief holes into the troughs of the cogs.
either way, at least overdriving it to drive a bigger front pulley & giving you more belt wrap is the key.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for chiming in. DO you have any power numbers with those different boost combinations? My father is 67, he's really not interested in the noise. If I thought it was necessary I'd do the cog but sounds like I don't need to spin this blower that hard on this small cube engine 6.0 LS2. With my 8.125" crank, 3.8 upper with a Griptec rear overdrive I'm at 16,677. Now if I was trying to spin the blower 18k+ I would think it would be necessary. Not to mention that Griptec offers the overdrive(20%) in both 10 rib, and 12 rib. Assuming it's available a Gates RPM belt would be nice back there with the Griptecs. As always, feel free to correct any of my ignorance or assumptions.
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:01 PM
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another variable I'm curious to see is that with the stock cam/stock heads(243)/factory LS7 manifolds(keep in mind this is LS2 engine) the hp fell off after about 5,950rpm I know the rear belt was slipping as the belt had 1/2 the tension Magnuson recommends. Now that it has ported heads/valve job, cam, valve springs, 1 7/8 long tubes with a much bigger blower I'm curious to see how the power curve shifts up, or carries farther anyway. In all my blower rpm calculations I've always used a 6500 rpm engine speed, but the stock long block LS2/MP112 never saw past 6000 rpm (on paper cause even if i switched my calculation from 6500 to 6000, any belt slip and that calculation was off on the high side in the real world. But now if I'm going to spin a TVS 2300 to 17,000(what the MP112 would have been currently assuming the engine would get to 6500) now I don't expect slip, and the engine should make power to 6500 or possibly a little beyond. So lots of variables, makes this interesting. My tuner is a 7 hour drive away so I'll have to bring a few different pulleys with me.
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by old motorhead View Post
Does the passenger side fuel rail need to be clearanced with the stock o/d pulleys or just with the cogged rear pulleys?
with the cathedral port manifold, you're fine as-is. it's if he swapped to LS3 heads & got the newer rectangle port LS3 manifold that the rail needs notched, and i believe that's only for the 36 cog.
super-rough eyeballing a tape measure on the car looks like 3 3/4" required.

Originally Posted by streetking408ys View Post
Originally Posted by _zebra View Post
if your aversion to the cogs is the constant whine, then the ones you've listened to are too tight. looking at Magnuson's install guide, it calls for enough slack to twist 45, and with that, it's relatively quiet until you get on it. another trick i've seen is to drill small air pressure relief holes into the troughs of the cogs.
either way, at least overdriving it to drive a bigger front pulley & giving you more belt wrap is the key.
Thanks for chiming in. DO you have any power numbers with those different boost combinations? My father is 67, he's really not interested in the noise. If I thought it was necessary I'd do the cog but sounds like I don't need to spin this blower that hard on this small cube engine 6.0 LS2. With my 8.125" crank, 3.8 upper with a Griptec rear overdrive I'm at 16,677. Now if I was trying to spin the blower 18k+ I would think it would be necessary. Not to mention that Griptec offers the overdrive(20%) in both 10 rib, and 12 rib. Assuming it's available a Gates RPM belt would be nice back there with the Griptecs. As always, feel free to correct any of my ignorance or assumptions.
granted these are LS1 numbers, but with stock long block & 1 7/8 headers + dual 3" mids, the 3.3 + ribbed underdrive got me 8psi for 480whp (running rich).
i put on a 2.9 & got a better tune for 520whp @ 9psi (losing boost up top for belt slip). then i traded for 1:1 rears + the old 3.3 for about the same blower speed but killing the slip to make 10psi & about another 20hp.
then last year i did heads / cam & ported the blower manifold while using OD cogs & a 3.8 to make 10psi for 650whp. then i had to pull the balancer, so i went on and replaced it with a 10% OD which now makes 13psi. didn't get dynoed after the crank pulley swap, so not sure what it makes in the end.
currently just swapped the cogs around to underdrive (just to see if it helps with gas mileage on an upcoming cross-country trip) making 5psi. drastic difference, i can attest!
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by _zebra View Post
with the cathedral port manifold, you're fine as-is. it's if he swapped to LS3 heads & got the newer rectangle port LS3 manifold that the rail needs notched, and i believe that's only for the 36 cog.
super-rough eyeballing a tape measure on the car looks like 3 3/4" required.


granted these are LS1 numbers, but with stock long block & 1 7/8 headers + dual 3" mids, the 3.3 + ribbed underdrive got me 8psi for 480whp (running rich).
i put on a 2.9 & got a better tune for 520whp @ 9psi (losing boost up top for belt slip). then i traded for 1:1 rears + the old 3.3 for about the same blower speed but killing the slip to make 10psi & about another 20hp.
then last year i did heads / cam & ported the blower manifold while using OD cogs & a 3.8 to make 10psi for 650whp. then i had to pull the balancer, so i went on and replaced it with a 10% OD which now makes 13psi. didn't get dynoed after the crank pulley swap, so not sure what it makes in the end.
currently just swapped the cogs around to underdrive (just to see if it helps with gas mileage on an upcoming cross-country trip) making 5psi. drastic difference, i can attest!
what you got for cam, and heads? thanks for all the info. I may be rethinking the fuel system work I just did. Damnit!
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:41 AM
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definitely don't skimp on the fueling. i ended up doing a return conversion & 450 in the tank, along with a killer chiller to help with IATs.
as for the top end, i've got ported 243s with a 2.02/1.60 valve job & the BTR 231/248 PD cam.
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Old 07-16-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by _zebra View Post
with the cathedral port manifold, you're fine as-is. it's if he swapped to LS3 heads & got the newer rectangle port LS3 manifold that the rail needs notched, and i believe that's only for the 36 cog.
super-rough eyeballing a tape measure on the car looks like 3 3/4" required.


granted these are LS1 numbers, but with stock long block & 1 7/8 headers + dual 3" mids, the 3.3 + ribbed underdrive got me 8psi for 480whp (running rich).
i put on a 2.9 & got a better tune for 520whp @ 9psi (losing boost up top for belt slip). then i traded for 1:1 rears + the old 3.3 for about the same blower speed but killing the slip to make 10psi & about another 20hp.
then last year i did heads / cam & ported the blower manifold while using OD cogs & a 3.8 to make 10psi for 650whp. then i had to pull the balancer, so i went on and replaced it with a 10% OD which now makes 13psi. didn't get dynoed after the crank pulley swap, so not sure what it makes in the end.
currently just swapped the cogs around to underdrive (just to see if it helps with gas mileage on an upcoming cross-country trip) making 5psi. drastic difference, i can attest!
What kind of hood are you running on your C5?
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:27 PM
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What injectors are you going to run?
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Old 07-16-2019, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by old motorhead View Post
What injectors are you going to run?
The blower comes with a shorty(LS3 style) 60 lb in it(I've read they are more of a 63lb). Ideally I'd run that as long as I can get my tuner the proper injector characterization info. My harness was converted to EV1 connector when Lingenfelter installed the MP112 back in 2006. The mototron 60lb that are with the blower are EV1 connector. They would get me to 800 flywheel, not factoring the Alky kit. If I don't run those I'll most probably get the ID1050X, and repin/connector the harness to EV6. I understand the whole "get injectors that you can grow into", but in this case it's the end of the road for the combo. My father is 67 and won't be needing more than mid/high 600rwhp. Sucks because we just bought new Siemens Deka 60lb EV1 tall injectors for exactly a year ago, they don't even have 1,000 miles on them. Fuel pump is a new 07+Z06 with KB BAP and racetronix harnesses.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by streetking408ys View Post
What kind of hood are you running on your C5?
the Kenne Bell hood, which is slightly bigger than the RK Sport for the C5 because it was made for a bigger blower.

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