NJ_phil

Getting spark retard coming in around 650 ft/lbs. Don't see any spark retard in the channels or charts but it's surely there in the scan. Spark should be climbing up to 3000 rpm. This is 2nd gear which is set to 780 ft/lb max in the tune.

EDIT: Found Spark retard was being logged and shows 6* being pulled @ 700 ft/lbs. Proof positive 20 ft/lbs is lost for every degree of retard. No knock so might be something in torque management

schpenxel

Log total knock retard and see if it shows up there. Plain knock retard is just retard from knock, total knock retard includes burst KR and a bunch of other stuff

That looks like burst KR to me

NJ_phil

It does show up as 6* of "Total Knock Retard" in the channels but 0* for "Knock Retard". (The actual sensor, not Spark Retard). I'll log Burst knock the next time but usually that starts off high and decays step by step, not like this. Burst decays at crank cycles and this looks like it's adjusting every 100ms if that means anything.

schpenxel

Makes sense, at least it isn't real knock then

If it isn't burst KR then search for any available channels with the word retard or advance in the name and log them all, you'll find it pretty quick then

realcanuk

I wouldn't focus on the torque number there. That is a calculated torque and not like torque measured on the dyno.

Focus more on what spark you are asking for at that rpm and airmass, and look for any table that might be pulling it there. I would log Kr, and IATs at a minimum, and burst knock to see if its just that.

russ472

do you have a wide band? Your commanded AFR is 11.3 but what is the engine really doing?

You need to log AFR error. that will tell you if you are running lean. Also need to log burst knock. either can cause your timing to drop. Were you spinning with traction control on?

NJ_phil

Canuk: I was thinking the ECM is using that torque number in it's torque management system and agree that's not going to the wheels. The base table has about 14* for that RPM and airmass. No IAT pulling spark for sure

Russ: I'm logging WB, just not shown on that scan. Car is still on a safety tune and running pig rich under PE. AFR was in the low 10s during that quick pull

EDIT. No wheel spin, TCS off

schpenxel

Bouncing up and down like that is almost for sure burst KR or torque management, everything else should be smoother than that

realcanuk

It does use that torque number but unless you adjust for it its way off with the mods now.

There are a bunch of tables that can pull timing. Maybe post up the tune. If a few of us look at it we might catch something.

NJ_phil

Forgot to mention I never plugged in the MAF sensor during that test....
I have to upload the tune from the car, been changing so much crap I don't know what's in there.

realcanuk

I noticed the MAF on the graph. That could be an issue right there if you didn't fail it and lower when VE kicks in.

NJ_phil

Could be. I was flipping back and forth between MAF/SD and Hybrid mode around Thanksgiving and forget what's in there now. Also just checked what I thought was the latest tune and see only 620 ft/lbs max so I probably messed it up.

realcanuk

What max torque are you referring to?

I guess they changed by year because HPT will only read to 640 on my car.

tblu92

There are several other tables in your E38 ECM that pulls timing------Besides KNOCK RETARD--
If you have the ability to data log KR----an example would be
Say in your tune you are commanding or asking for 24* timing at 5000 RPM's---the data logger shows you have NO knock retard but are ending up with only 19*
So you need to find out where the timing deducts are coming from
1 1st look at your IAT temperature---If for example it is reading 130*---then look a your tune and see hoe much timing is being removed at 130* IAT in the 5000 RPM range
2 Look at your Coolant temp---again look and see in the data logger what your coolant temps is and then look in your tune to see if any timing is being removed due to high coolant temps as well
So lets say you are commanding 24* at WOT
the IAT deducts are 4 *
the ECT deducts are 1*
So you should be ending up on your data logger with 19* total timing( again assuming you have NO KR)
NOW if you have LESS than 19* total timing the deducts are coming from even somewhere's else!
In your TQ management tables there are several tables that REMOVE TIMING as part of the TQ management system----You will notice that TQ management is controlled by 3 things------- 1. SPARK-------2. Throttle----3. Fuel----
I always eliminate ALL the SPARK deducts in the TQ Control /management part of the tune-- This makes it so much easier to have your commanded timing the same or very close or easier to see WHERE the timing deducts are coming from--Hence making your eng easier to tune without any surprises in timing

realcanuk

That's why I said there are a bunch of tables that effect timing.
There are others than what's mentioned, I just don't have the patience to type that much.

schpenxel

No one should read what he types anyways

realcanuk

That's why I don't type it all out !!

schpenxel

Haha, the other guy, not you!

NJ_phil

Here's the tune if anyone cares to take a look. Looks like it switched into MAF mode at 3000 but the MAF was unplugged so possibly that's what caused it. Let the wife drive to Walmart earlier and it ran like it just came off the showroom floor. Pretty happy with the "tame side" of the tune, idle, CL, etc...

tblu92. IAT and ECT didn't pull and spark with this cold weather for sure.. Thanks for the tips..Most people bypass torque management all together but I'm not ready to disable it yet.

schpenxel

After looking at that tune I'm like 99% sure that's burst KR that you're seeing