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Help in Raising idle using HP Tuners

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Old 06-17-2017, 10:33 AM   #1
speedz06
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Default Help in Raising idle using HP Tuners

OK first step.
I am embarrassed to say that I have had HP Tuners for more than a year and still haven't opened the box. I want to increase idle speed so badly but worry ill mess something up worse. Can I figure this out in a day on a weekend?
This is to get a little more juice from alternator, make up for that light flywheel I put on there (another mistake)

Mixture:
Tech2 says fuel trim is lean...I should ask someone who knows about that. My AFR is never below 14.7:1 and often higher at idle. I have no
cats...should it be richened up? Rather too rich than too lean.

I'm wondering if my engine is running hotter at idle than it has to. Not wondering..it IS. There are a few crusty wire looms and hood cable melted, motor mounts are showng heat stress. The tuner saw this but did nothing or at least didnt tell me about it if he did and it still seems way too hot.

I have wideband on the car. I know that when we used to change the air cleaner on our *** bikes we had to jet them or the pipes would turn blue and the engine would get crazy hot just from that. So even a little lean make allot of heat IMO.

Anyone know a good video on idle tuning (1 just to raise idle another to add fuel)

My Tuner told me that the idle mixture will adjust itself and I dont need to worry about it but I'm still thinking it's lean.
If that is true then why does the fuel trim not show '0'? The LTFT has some value as lean.
The idle was hanging up around 2,000 RPM and slowly settling down but the tuner fixed that...'forgot' to raise idle as i requested.

Maybe someone can walk me through it?
Would team viewer work?

I have been playing with the tech2 but still dont know everything but can at least give some info.

Just tired of bringing this car to tuner shops 2 hours away and having the idle and low speed driveability completely ignored....then after my car gets a serious Dyno-beating I go out on the interstate, floor it and have a surging going through the gears like it's running lean all the way to redline.
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Old 06-17-2017, 06:27 PM   #2
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what else has been done to the car? you can raise the idle easily in hptuners. even if the LTFT are showing 0 or bleow doesn't mean it's lean just that it's taking fuel out to keep it around 14.7
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:40 PM   #3
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Post log and tune.

Fuel trim values are amount it's having to correct to make it NOT lean or NOT rich. Common misunderstanding.

It's literally like one table to raise the idle. Just raise it if that's what you want

What's ignition timing at idle look like? Low timing will make the headers HOT. Like turning red hot.

Last edited by schpenxel; 06-17-2017 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:57 PM   #4
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Post log and tune.

Fuel trim values are amount it's having to correct to make it NOT lean or NOT rich. Common misunderstanding.

It's literally like one table to raise the idle. Just raise it if that's what you want

What's ignition timing at idle look like? Low timing will make the headers HOT. Like turning red hot.

I will have a look at timing via tech2 tomorrow.
This car roasts underhood even when coolant temps arent peaking. I just want to be sure everything is checked out.

Any suggestion for timing at idle? Is this in the factory service manual?

I was going to just raise idle but now see now there are different parameters such as with A/C on or off etc.

One that interests me I saw in a video is the input for cooling fans in lb. per hour of air.
This would matter in the case of the D3 fans.

One main question about idle: Is there a standard idle setting or target for a car with allot of accessories? Is 1100 rpm too high?
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:26 PM   #5
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First thing, once you are in VCM Editor, make sure you are in advanced view. Edit-->view-->advanced. I really wish they would make this the default. Way too much is hidden if you're not in advanced view.

--------------------

Stock is ~13* at idle for LS2's. You can log it with HPTuners in VCM Scanner.

Aftermarket cam you'd probably want more than that, I don't know what your setup is

I think a lot of what you're reading is for older or other models. The fan settings aren't in lb/hr (they are in %, 0% is off, 100% is wide open) and there isn't a separate idle RPM for AC on/off. There is an airflow adjustment based on AC being on or off so it knows to give it a little more air (throttle) to maintain idle but idle RPM is the same either way.

1100 is crazy high unless it's a huge cam. Stock is 650 RPM's.
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Old 06-20-2017, 05:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
First thing, once you are in VCM Editor, make sure you are in advanced view. Edit-->view-->advanced. I really wish they would make this the default. Way too much is hidden if you're not in advanced view.

--------------------

Stock is ~13* at idle for LS2's. You can log it with HPTuners in VCM Scanner.

Aftermarket cam you'd probably want more than that, I don't know what your setup is

I think a lot of what you're reading is for older or other models. The fan settings aren't in lb/hr (they are in %, 0% is off, 100% is wide open) and there isn't a separate idle RPM for AC on/off. There is an airflow adjustment based on AC being on or off so it knows to give it a little more air (throttle) to maintain idle but idle RPM is the same either way.

1100 is crazy high unless it's a huge cam. Stock is 650 RPM's.
OK...I'm opening the box this evening and am going to get started.

Thanks very much fo the info.
i have an 06 z06 with eforce and a couple of steps down in pulley size.
no cats, oem exhaust, alky w/straight meth (for now), boost pump,
D3 fans/Dewitts (have the HX kit in the box), meziere water pump, forged pistons on otherwise oem engine.
Just seems to run very hot and also not charging well at idle.
It was hanging up at around 2k rpms then settling down to idle at about 850 (where it is currently set) until I brought it back to the "tooner" but idle still isnt great.
I'm thinking just another 100 or so RPM to run those fans.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:08 PM   #7
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Setup an account on hptuners.com once you get it opened up. Download the latest version on there, I would not use the software that came with yours as they've had a lot of updates lately. No pointing in learning on an old version when you're starting from scratch.

I don't see any reason you'd need the idle any higher but you can try it if you want. Sounds like the alternator just isn't big enough to me

The hanging idle is likely not helping. To try to get the idle speed down it will lower ignition timing which can put a LOT or heat into the headers. That can't be helping. Try lowering min airflow to make it stop hanging like that.
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:24 AM   #8
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Make sure you save your stock tune to a couple different thumb drives so you never lose it.

Www.TampaTuning.com
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:18 AM   #9
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Trying to post the tune here if that helps maybe we can see something.
This is a daily driver with heavy traffic time 1 to 3 hours per day. a 90 mile commute.

It has a light flywheel and clutch which I'm not crazy about since I need to give the car more fuel to start off in traffic. Actually seems strange because a 427 should basically just roll forward with little fuel.
That may have contributed to the idle being unstable as well.

The radiant heat is where my main concern is. Even though the car didnt overheat ECT-wise there are melted and singed parts, even the hinson motor mounts got cooked. This is shortening engine life and other parts.

There is the late model oil to water cooler that came with the eforce kit.

upgraded to higher capacity oil sump

dewitts radiator (actually might not be best for idle cooling but did add capacity)

D3 fans
all HX are clean, new condenser.

I have never seen anything like this except on old school motorcycles when they were lean at idle.
Let's assume the original "tuner" (who is a certified hack) had his fingers everywhere. The idle was all over the place and I was surprised he gave me the car that way after the eforce installation.
This guy messed me up terribly including a broken piston/cracked block from very lean WOT and I'm still paying for it a year later.

One of the main vendors took hours with the tune, straightened out allot but high temps arent addressed. Like most he didnt figure that some things were messed with previously so he didnt take time to check for the issues in traffic etc. He noticed the melted stuff only after my return to sharpen up the tune but didnt do anything to find the cause, just fixed my hanging idle.

On the highway the car is pretty good.

Charging gremlins seem to have been fixed with combination of upgrades and mods.
The eforce HX air restriction IMO should not be creating all these high temp issues. It has to be in the tune. I even went from oem water pump to a meziere pump and got some improvement but the radiant heat is still there.

I'm just learning the software now and will increase fan speeds.

I'll find out how to log. I assume I have to choose the parameters we want to see and also assume that I just save the data like anything else.
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Old 07-01-2017, 02:31 PM   #10
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What are your mods again? Stock cam or something else?

Post a log if you can
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Old 07-02-2017, 05:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
What are your mods again? Stock cam or something else?

Post a log if you can
Ill work on the log. I havent gotten that far (yet)

Any suggestion is appreciated.


Z06 LS7 w eForce w/ smaller pulley, oem engine except forged pistons
Alky w/straight meth, pump booster.
The tune is likely dependent upon meth not 100% sure.
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Old 07-02-2017, 05:49 PM   #12
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I'm trying to remember why I asked about the cam. I think I was looking at the idle ignition timing and thinking it was too low for a cam'd car.

Once you get a log I'll check it out
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
I'm trying to remember why I asked about the cam. I think I was looking at the idle ignition timing and thinking it was too low for a cam'd car.

Once you get a log I'll check it out
This may be the most stupid question but what should I be logging?

Today, although the higher idle and the new fan settings helped I'm still running in the 240's in traffic with a/c on, it just takes longer to get there.

The fans and cooling system have the capacity to reduce temps fairly quickly once a/c is off though.
Underhood temps are still way too high.
My AFR's are 14.7 to 15:1 at idle and off idle, even at mild throttle openings then very rich at WOT so thats ok I guess.
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Old 07-06-2017, 09:51 PM   #14
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What's ignition timing look like at idle?

Yeah as long as it's in closed loop you're going to stay around 14.7 so that sounds right.

Here's a channel config file I had from a newer Camaro. It won't work totally for your car I don't think but it should get you started with stuff you need to be logging
Attached Files
File Type: xml Camaro.Channels copy.xml (3.6 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by schpenxel; 07-06-2017 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:37 PM   #15
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Thanks, sorry for late reply been reading up.
OK, here is my first log before temps get really high, then one when ECT gets up to 230's

Ill check out the camaro tune. So, basically my main concern is high heat from engine.

I dont have enough experience to know what the ltft and stft numbers mean but I assume they ought to be as close to 0 (zero) as possible?
today more like 15:1 at idle it was about 85 to 90 degrees outside but road temp likely higher.
I couldnt figure out how to add parameters but will soon and I will log what I can. I didnt even see some of these like on the camaro such as the anti stall related tables.

I hope there is something useful but as I said ill be more on target this is the default parameters but it seemed like they chose these for a reason.

Last edited by speedz06; 07-10-2017 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 07-11-2017, 03:16 PM   #16
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I'd maybe bump idle timing up 4-5* and maybe decrease min airflow a few % and see if that makes any difference. Timing is pretty close to commanded at idle so it's not like it's going down to low single digits or anything like I've seen in some (which will make headers glow red and really create a lot of heat)
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