Short tube headers worth it?
10-03-2005, 07:56 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Short tube headers worth it?
I've had some nice MOD work done at Callaway cars recently and now I am considering installing their short tube headers designed for the C6. They bolt up to the stock pipes/cats. Their HP claim isn't as great as other companies but they produce real nice products. Any thoughts? Are people seeing big HP gains with the long tubes?
10-03-2005, 08:32 AM
#2
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"Long tubes"
-tend to net 20-30 rwhp with a proper tune N/A
-tend to net 10-20 rwhp tuned without changing boost pressure
-with or without cats are not 50 state legal
-with or without cats are not 49 state legal
-requires connection pipes (mid-pipes.) Can be bought or fabricated
-headers alone cost 1200+ (coated / stainless)
"Shorties "
-tend to net 5-10 rwhp with a proprer tune N/A
-tend to net 10-15 rwhp tuned without changing boost pressure
-with cats can be 50 state legal (requires CARB EO#)
-with cats can be 49 state legal (requires EPA compliance)
-bolt-on installation. Utilized stock catalyst and mounting locations
-headers alone cost 600+ (coated / stainless)
I have seen many a LSx motor pick-up the claimed 20+ rwhp without tuning and more with on a long tube header design between (1 3/4 - 1 7/8 primary sizes.) It is not an anomoly. I have seen these gains on my 5.7 LS6 66' Chevelle and my 5.3L LM7 01' Silverado and even my 95' LT1 Impala SS. I also do tunign and some isntall work and have seen these results throughout several brands (SLP/Dynatech/Kooks.) I have installed on 5.7 LS1 C5, 5.7 LS6 C5 Z06, 5.7 LS1 GTO, 6.0 LS2 GTO, 5.3L LM7 GM trucksuv and 6.0L LQ9 GM truck/suv.
Most people feel shorties are NOT worth while investment being the discrepancy in rwhp. Shorties have their place ... stock boosted to street legal supercharger systems will remain street legal and still add HP with a shorty. Long tubes (if properly functional) will drop boost pressure due to more effective scavenging and better/more effiecient cylinder evacuation...this leads to a drop in boost. Should you correct the boost pressure benefits will increase as well, but at the expense of street legality.
It is really about whether you want MAX gain at the expense of street legality or moderate gains and remain 100% street legal.
Richard
-tend to net 20-30 rwhp with a proper tune N/A
-tend to net 10-20 rwhp tuned without changing boost pressure
-with or without cats are not 50 state legal
-with or without cats are not 49 state legal
-requires connection pipes (mid-pipes.) Can be bought or fabricated
-headers alone cost 1200+ (coated / stainless)
"Shorties "
-tend to net 5-10 rwhp with a proprer tune N/A
-tend to net 10-15 rwhp tuned without changing boost pressure
-with cats can be 50 state legal (requires CARB EO#)
-with cats can be 49 state legal (requires EPA compliance)
-bolt-on installation. Utilized stock catalyst and mounting locations
-headers alone cost 600+ (coated / stainless)
I have seen many a LSx motor pick-up the claimed 20+ rwhp without tuning and more with on a long tube header design between (1 3/4 - 1 7/8 primary sizes.) It is not an anomoly. I have seen these gains on my 5.7 LS6 66' Chevelle and my 5.3L LM7 01' Silverado and even my 95' LT1 Impala SS. I also do tunign and some isntall work and have seen these results throughout several brands (SLP/Dynatech/Kooks.) I have installed on 5.7 LS1 C5, 5.7 LS6 C5 Z06, 5.7 LS1 GTO, 6.0 LS2 GTO, 5.3L LM7 GM trucksuv and 6.0L LQ9 GM truck/suv.
Most people feel shorties are NOT worth while investment being the discrepancy in rwhp. Shorties have their place ... stock boosted to street legal supercharger systems will remain street legal and still add HP with a shorty. Long tubes (if properly functional) will drop boost pressure due to more effective scavenging and better/more effiecient cylinder evacuation...this leads to a drop in boost. Should you correct the boost pressure benefits will increase as well, but at the expense of street legality.
It is really about whether you want MAX gain at the expense of street legality or moderate gains and remain 100% street legal.
Richard
10-03-2005, 08:48 AM
#3
What about shorties with high flow cats from RT? What kind of gains? Seems like it might make 15 rwhp for around $1200; might be worth it.
Do shorties have the same corrosion / wear problems that I just read about for LTs?
Do shorties have the same corrosion / wear problems that I just read about for LTs?
10-03-2005, 09:11 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
One site I just looked at said that the headers were worth a whopping .1 in the qtr mi. On the other hand, it also said that the Honker, and the Double D were worth .4 in the qtr. Add the headers and the combination was worth .5 in the qtr.
Who sells the shorties and how much were they?
Who sells the shorties and how much were they?
10-03-2005, 11:21 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
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unless you live in calif. or another state with strict inspections then the shorties just aren't a good choice for hp/$ ... the stinkers cost comparable to longtubes and about 1/3 the reward.
10-03-2005, 04:26 PM
#7
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Richard, what a good and thorough post w/ info explaining the differences 
Your numbers also seem to be closer to "reality" over many "claims" keep hearing about long tubes (and other products for that matter
)
I am sure you have seen almost every combo out there and of course a long tube header will make some addl. power over a shorter design, especially w/ catalytic converters - no denying that
BUT, the Callaway headers are emissions compliant or under way to getting the E.O. numbers I am sure - they adhere to making power w/in the bounds of the emissions rules and it is a set of Callaway headers that are on the fastest known (naturally aspirated) C6 - the Carlisle Callaway (10.76 @ 128.59 ) 
I hope this helps you Turbo2uuuuu
Your numbers also seem to be closer to "reality" over many "claims" keep hearing about long tubes (and other products for that matter
)I am sure you have seen almost every combo out there and of course a long tube header will make some addl. power over a shorter design, especially w/ catalytic converters - no denying that
BUT, the Callaway headers are emissions compliant or under way to getting the E.O. numbers I am sure - they adhere to making power w/in the bounds of the emissions rules and it is a set of Callaway headers that are on the fastest known (naturally aspirated) C6 - the Carlisle Callaway (10.76 @ 128.59 ) I hope this helps you Turbo2uuuuu
Originally Posted by btlfed1500
"Long tubes"
-tend to net 20-30 rwhp with a proper tune N/A
-tend to net 10-20 rwhp tuned without changing boost pressure
-with or without cats are not 50 state legal
-with or without cats are not 49 state legal
-requires connection pipes (mid-pipes.) Can be bought or fabricated
-headers alone cost 1200+ (coated / stainless)
"Shorties "
-tend to net 5-10 rwhp with a proprer tune N/A
-tend to net 10-15 rwhp tuned without changing boost pressure
-with cats can be 50 state legal (requires CARB EO#)
-with cats can be 49 state legal (requires EPA compliance)
-bolt-on installation. Utilized stock catalyst and mounting locations
-headers alone cost 600+ (coated / stainless)
Most people feel shorties are NOT worth while investment being the discrepancy in rwhp. Shorties have their place ... stock boosted to street legal supercharger systems will remain street legal and still add HP with a shorty. Long tubes (if properly functional) will drop boost pressure due to more effective scavenging and better/more effiecient cylinder evacuation...this leads to a drop in boost. Should you correct the boost pressure benefits will increase as well, but at the expense of street legality.
It is really about whether you want MAX gain at the expense of street legality or moderate gains and remain 100% street legal.
Richard
-tend to net 20-30 rwhp with a proper tune N/A
-tend to net 10-20 rwhp tuned without changing boost pressure
-with or without cats are not 50 state legal
-with or without cats are not 49 state legal
-requires connection pipes (mid-pipes.) Can be bought or fabricated
-headers alone cost 1200+ (coated / stainless)
"Shorties "
-tend to net 5-10 rwhp with a proprer tune N/A
-tend to net 10-15 rwhp tuned without changing boost pressure
-with cats can be 50 state legal (requires CARB EO#)
-with cats can be 49 state legal (requires EPA compliance)
-bolt-on installation. Utilized stock catalyst and mounting locations
-headers alone cost 600+ (coated / stainless)
Most people feel shorties are NOT worth while investment being the discrepancy in rwhp. Shorties have their place ... stock boosted to street legal supercharger systems will remain street legal and still add HP with a shorty. Long tubes (if properly functional) will drop boost pressure due to more effective scavenging and better/more effiecient cylinder evacuation...this leads to a drop in boost. Should you correct the boost pressure benefits will increase as well, but at the expense of street legality.
It is really about whether you want MAX gain at the expense of street legality or moderate gains and remain 100% street legal.
Richard
10-03-2005, 05:43 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by *89x2*
Richard, what a good and thorough post w/ info explaining the differences
Your numbers also seem to be closer to "reality" over many "claims" keep hearing about long tubes (and other products for that matter )
I am sure you have seen almost every combo out there and of course a long tube header will make some addl. power over a shorter design, especially w/ catalytic converters - no denying that BUT, the Callaway headers are emissions compliant or under way to getting the E.O. numbers I am sure - they adhere to making power w/in the bounds of the emissions rules and it is a set of Callaway headers that are on the fastest known (naturally aspirated) C6 - the Carlisle Callaway (10.76 @ 128.59 )
I hope this helps you Turbo2uuuuu
Your numbers also seem to be closer to "reality" over many "claims" keep hearing about long tubes (and other products for that matter
)I am sure you have seen almost every combo out there and of course a long tube header will make some addl. power over a shorter design, especially w/ catalytic converters - no denying that
BUT, the Callaway headers are emissions compliant or under way to getting the E.O. numbers I am sure - they adhere to making power w/in the bounds of the emissions rules and it is a set of Callaway headers that are on the fastest known (naturally aspirated) C6 - the Carlisle Callaway (10.76 @ 128.59 ) I hope this helps you Turbo2uuuuu
10-04-2005, 05:32 PM
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Some pricing I have found:
TYPE / Manufacturer / Market Price
LT-1 3/4" / B&B / $999
LT-1 3/4" / Bassani / $1187
LT-1 3/4" / Dynatech / $1199
LT-1 3/4" / Kooks / $859
LT-1 3/4" / LG / $1495 (with x ???... unclear add)
LT-1 3/4" / SLP / $799
LT-1 3/4" / Stainless Works / $995
LT-1 3/4" / TTS / $1199
LT-1 3/4" steped 1 7/8" / Breathless Performance / $1140
LT-1 7/8" / Kooks / $869
I'll add more as I have time.
TYPE / Manufacturer / Market Price
LT-1 3/4" / B&B / $999
LT-1 3/4" / Bassani / $1187
LT-1 3/4" / Dynatech / $1199
LT-1 3/4" / Kooks / $859
LT-1 3/4" / LG / $1495 (with x ???... unclear add)
LT-1 3/4" / SLP / $799
LT-1 3/4" / Stainless Works / $995
LT-1 3/4" / TTS / $1199
LT-1 3/4" steped 1 7/8" / Breathless Performance / $1140
LT-1 7/8" / Kooks / $869
I'll add more as I have time.
