Torque Management System - C6
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
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From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by TMyers
Well here is a funny fact. My best 60ft time was a 2.07 stock. Maybe with more experience I would figure out how to improve this. I only have about 20 runs under my belt including the runs I made tonight.
The difference is that tonight I ran with a CAI and the car tuned. TM has been hamstrung, not removed just backed off. I confirmed this with my tuner before I left for the track. Anyway my worst 60 tonight was 2.06 with the other runs being 2.03, 2.01, 1.99, and 1.98. My launch technique is the same, and it is at the same track. If anything conditions where worse tonight than the other 2 nights though not by much.
Now could the 10-20hp make a difference in the 60 foot times maybe I don't really know. But since most people can't feel that I kinda doubt it. Oh I forgot to mention that between tonight and the other 2 night I haded about 100lbs of sound proofing to the car.
The difference is that tonight I ran with a CAI and the car tuned. TM has been hamstrung, not removed just backed off. I confirmed this with my tuner before I left for the track. Anyway my worst 60 tonight was 2.06 with the other runs being 2.03, 2.01, 1.99, and 1.98. My launch technique is the same, and it is at the same track. If anything conditions where worse tonight than the other 2 nights though not by much.
Now could the 10-20hp make a difference in the 60 foot times maybe I don't really know. But since most people can't feel that I kinda doubt it. Oh I forgot to mention that between tonight and the other 2 night I haded about 100lbs of sound proofing to the car.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
From: springtown tx
Originally Posted by jschindler
Track and weather conditions make a big difference on 60' times. How well it is "prepped", and even the hot weather actually tends to help 60' times. There have been several drivers on this board who have run 1.8x 60' times bone stock (including the runflat tires).
Last edited by zippin zee; Jul 29, 2006 at 10:47 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
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From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by zippin zee
...But I will have to confess I have'nt made near as many passes in the Corvette as the rear has already split the case in half once and I am a little gun shy.
This reduced psi allows for additional sidewall flex on launch and the shifts, taking some edge off the shock to the rear. That small adjustment has kept my rear parts safe thru 33 passes on the C6Z.
Ranger
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
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From: Shiloh Ohio
I gained 4-5 mph and dropped almost 5 tenths with bolt on mods ,(+47 HP on a dynojet) and my 60 foot time is virtually the same. Trust me fellows there is TM in your C6. Now for manuals I can not speak because I have not driven one. But the auto has something going on during the launch.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
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From: Chandler Arizona
I've learned a lot reading this thread. I can't wait to get TM reduced on my 06 A6. I'm convinced that it exists because my car never launches really hard, kind of lays downs and then recovers.
However, there are way too many sensitive people posting on this thread. It seems that some members are very defensive if everyone doesn't drop on their knees and profess that they are correct. Kind of amusing. Also seems that too many people are throwing around the word "engineer." That is the most overused word in the dictionary. The only way I (or any state in the nation) recognize anyone as an "engineer" is if they are a registered Professional Engineer. So next time someone posts that they are an engineer, please post your registration number or I'll have to report you to the authorities.
However, there are way too many sensitive people posting on this thread. It seems that some members are very defensive if everyone doesn't drop on their knees and profess that they are correct. Kind of amusing. Also seems that too many people are throwing around the word "engineer." That is the most overused word in the dictionary. The only way I (or any state in the nation) recognize anyone as an "engineer" is if they are a registered Professional Engineer. So next time someone posts that they are an engineer, please post your registration number or I'll have to report you to the authorities.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by glennhl
I've learned a lot reading this thread. I can't wait to get TM reduced on my 06 A6. I'm convinced that it exists because my car never launches really hard, kind of lays downs and then recovers.
However, there are way too many sensitive people posting on this thread. It seems that some members are very defensive if everyone doesn't drop on their knees and profess that they are correct. Kind of amusing. Also seems that too many people are throwing around the word "engineer." That is the most overused word in the dictionary. The only way I (or any state in the nation) recognize anyone as an "engineer" is if they are a registered Professional Engineer. So next time someone posts that they are an engineer, please post your registration number or I'll have to report you to the authorities.
However, there are way too many sensitive people posting on this thread. It seems that some members are very defensive if everyone doesn't drop on their knees and profess that they are correct. Kind of amusing. Also seems that too many people are throwing around the word "engineer." That is the most overused word in the dictionary. The only way I (or any state in the nation) recognize anyone as an "engineer" is if they are a registered Professional Engineer. So next time someone posts that they are an engineer, please post your registration number or I'll have to report you to the authorities.
Second, I'm a sales manager with a degree in marketing. So frankly, I probably wouldn't believe anything I say
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,565
Likes: 5
From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by jschindler
To your first point - I think most people would PROBABLY agree that TM does exist, and to a greater extent in automatic trans cars.
imo, a couple of assumption would need to be made, which do seem to be a common conclusion from these tm threads.
imo, this is what i've concluded from the numerous threads on the subject.
all versions of the c6 use the same programming in the ecm.
automatic transmission c6s have an additional transmission controller.
the c6 is a drive-by-wire vehicle and thereby can be completely controlled by the computer and thereby permitting the possibility of any type of computer control/limit/management to be possible.
the gap between auto and manual perfromance is closing.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
From: springtown tx
Originally Posted by Ranger
Besides TM, the enemy is wheel hop, which tends to break axle shafts, CV joints, and differential covers. One key for avoiding that breakage is (a) dropping the rear tire pressure to 26-27 psi actual and (b) adjusting it back to the number between passes as the tires heat up during the day. I recheck and adjust mine right before the pass.
This reduced psi allows for additional sidewall flex on launch and the shifts, taking some edge off the shock to the rear. That small adjustment has kept my rear parts safe thru 33 passes on the C6Z.
Ranger
This reduced psi allows for additional sidewall flex on launch and the shifts, taking some edge off the shock to the rear. That small adjustment has kept my rear parts safe thru 33 passes on the C6Z.
Ranger
I agree as there was wheel hop on the 1st to second shift when my rear end was broken. It was a middle of the week test and tune and the track was poorly preped.
I have found if I slightly lift on the 1st to second shift it helps considerably when the track is not so good.
I also believe there may have been some cases on some of the earlier 2005's that may have not been up to par.
When it gets a little cooler I will venture out to the track and see if I can better my time.
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Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by zippin zee
Ranger,
I agree as there was wheel hop on the 1st to second shift when my rear end was broken. It was a middle of the week test and tune and the track was poorly preped....
I agree as there was wheel hop on the 1st to second shift when my rear end was broken. It was a middle of the week test and tune and the track was poorly preped....
Ranger
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
From: springtown tx
Originally Posted by Ranger
What tires were you running and at what psi?
Ranger
Ranger
I have also run my car on M/T drag radials.
275-45-17 The 60's were only slightly better than the run flats as torque management would not let me effectively launch the car with the added traction.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
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From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by zippin zee
Ranger I was on the run flats at 28 lbs.
I have also run my car on M/T drag radials.
275-45-17 The 60's were only slightly better than the run flats as torque management would not let me effectively launch the car with the added traction.
I have also run my car on M/T drag radials.
275-45-17 The 60's were only slightly better than the run flats as torque management would not let me effectively launch the car with the added traction.
When running stock tires, I'd suggest dropping another pound or two from the rear psi to 25-27.
Strong 1-2, 2-3 shifts with the M6/M12 do seem to enact a higher TM toll.
Neither the C6 or the C6Z achieve 330' times as fast as a C5Z. TM is the reason.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; Jul 30, 2006 at 01:21 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,565
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by Ranger
Right. TM does that.
When running stock tires, I'd suggest dropping another pound or two from the rear psi.
Strong 1-2, 2-3 shifts with the M6/M12 do seem to enact a higher TM toll.
Neither the C6 or the C6Z achieve 330' times as fast as a C5Z. TM is the reason.
Ranger
When running stock tires, I'd suggest dropping another pound or two from the rear psi.
Strong 1-2, 2-3 shifts with the M6/M12 do seem to enact a higher TM toll.
Neither the C6 or the C6Z achieve 330' times as fast as a C5Z. TM is the reason.
Ranger
or is tm more invasive in the c6 due to the more aggressive nature of the engine ? meaning, it's the same version of tm but exacts a greater toll on the ls7 because the ls7 is making more power. requiring feather control of the power in order to exact the optimum performance.
Last edited by Zig; Jul 30, 2006 at 11:07 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
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From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by Ranger
Right. TM does that.
When running stock tires, I'd suggest dropping another pound or two from the rear psi.
Strong 1-2, 2-3 shifts with the M6/M12 do seem to enact a higher TM toll.
Neither the C6 or the C6Z achieve 330' times as fast as a C5Z. TM is the reason.
Ranger
When running stock tires, I'd suggest dropping another pound or two from the rear psi.
Strong 1-2, 2-3 shifts with the M6/M12 do seem to enact a higher TM toll.
Neither the C6 or the C6Z achieve 330' times as fast as a C5Z. TM is the reason.
Ranger
I usually run mine 24 lbs cold. Sticks fairly well and by the time you do the burn out you are at 25 lbs and you do not have to put up with the low tire warning.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 328
Likes: 2
From: springtown tx
Ranger,
Thanks for the advice, I will give it a try.
I agree 100%. I believe the C6 is a 12 flat car if it was not hindered with TM.
Good luck with your C6Z, hope you meet your goals.
Thanks for the advice, I will give it a try.
I agree 100%. I believe the C6 is a 12 flat car if it was not hindered with TM.
Good luck with your C6Z, hope you meet your goals.
Last edited by zippin zee; Jul 30, 2006 at 11:18 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
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From: Houston, TX
Originally Posted by zippin zee
Ranger,
Thanks for the advice, I will give it a try.
I agree 100%. I believe the C6 is a 12 flat car if it was not hindered with TM.
Good luck with your C6Z, hope you meet your goals.
Thanks for the advice, I will give it a try.
I agree 100%. I believe the C6 is a 12 flat car if it was not hindered with TM.
Good luck with your C6Z, hope you meet your goals.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 7,695
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From: Imperial Beach CA
Originally Posted by jschindler
I don't disagree with your statement, but I have to make a point. The Corvette would be a 12 flat car if it had 50 more horsepower as well. My point being that it is what it is. GM designed the car the way they did. TM is no different than any other part of the cars tuning.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,565
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From: stafford country, va. Avatar: Me on turn 3 @ Bristol (The World's Fastest Half-Mile)
Originally Posted by shurite44
I usually run mine 24 lbs cold. Sticks fairly well and by the time you do the burn out you are at 25 lbs and you do not have to put up with the low tire warning.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by jschindler
I don't disagree with your statement, but I have to make a point. The Corvette would be a 12 flat car if it had 50 more horsepower as well. My point being that it is what it is. GM designed the car the way they did. TM is no different than any other part of the cars tuning.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,649
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From: Central Florida
Originally Posted by shurite44
Good point. This is actually the essence of the disagreement.
Chevy is trying to reduce warranty claims via graudated detuning (TM) rather than hardening parts. I understand their financial motive. But it's an "on the cheap" approach for a marquis car.
Ranger
