Mobil 1 not full synthetic?
03-24-2007, 06:33 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Mobil 1 not full synthetic?
I have been following this thread on the E46 forum:
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ight=synthetic
Very interesting stuff about Mobil changing their formulation for Mobil 1 from full synthetic (Group IV base stock) to a semi-synthetic. This was apparently Mobil's response to Castrol winning a lawsuit regarding their claim to sell a full synthetic (that Mobil claimed was not). Mobil changed their full synthetic formulation to semi-synthetic, similar to Castrol's.
However, European Castrol is full synthetic. It is claimed that only redline, royal purple and amsoil still sell full synthetic in the US. You can apparently buy Euro Castrol and maybe some others like Motul and Shell, I don't know.
Thought I would post up this link here since we are supposed to use synthetic Moblie 1. I wonder if the same people who changed the recommended oil change interval to 15,000 miles know that the "synthetic" we are supposed to be using, isn't.
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ight=synthetic
Very interesting stuff about Mobil changing their formulation for Mobil 1 from full synthetic (Group IV base stock) to a semi-synthetic. This was apparently Mobil's response to Castrol winning a lawsuit regarding their claim to sell a full synthetic (that Mobil claimed was not). Mobil changed their full synthetic formulation to semi-synthetic, similar to Castrol's.
However, European Castrol is full synthetic. It is claimed that only redline, royal purple and amsoil still sell full synthetic in the US. You can apparently buy Euro Castrol and maybe some others like Motul and Shell, I don't know.
Thought I would post up this link here since we are supposed to use synthetic Moblie 1. I wonder if the same people who changed the recommended oil change interval to 15,000 miles know that the "synthetic" we are supposed to be using, isn't.
Last edited by maj75; 03-24-2007 at 06:36 PM.
03-24-2007, 07:10 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
According to the Mobile web site the 5W-30 recommended for our cars is indeed fully synthetic. http://www.mobil1.com/usa-english/mo....aspx?option=2
03-24-2007, 07:29 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
If true, they need to update the web site.
Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?
Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.
Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?
Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.
03-24-2007, 09:11 PM
#5
Safety Car
It is still a full synthetic. This is a matter of playing telephone, where the facts get changed as they are passed along until the truth is complete obscured.
I believe Mobil's site, and the bottles of oil which say full synthetic, before an unknown guy on a BMW quoting another unknown guy on a Nissan forum who is pushing AMSOIL. AMSOIL is always trying to discredit Mobil in one way or another, which is funny since AMSOIL used to buy their base stocks from Mobil.
If you read other posts on that forum, you'll see numerous BMW 3 series owners etc that have "beat" and shamed every c6 and Z06 they came across. I don't believe that either.
Here is the true story about the lawsuit:
Mobil 1 uses a 100% completely synthetic PAO (Poly Alpha Olephin) Group-V base stock. Mobil invented this technology back in the fifties, and they have always used the 'true' synthetic formula.
Castrol 'Syntec', as originally sold in America back in the late eighties/early nineties, was NOT a true synthetic, even though it was advertised as such.
The Castrol product used a group-III/IV base stock which is derived from natural petroleum/crude oil sources.
The lawsuit brought by Mobil against Castrol resulted in the decision that Castrol was indeed allowed to call thier product 'full synthetic' based on the fact that Castrol claimed it's base stocks recieved further refining processes, at the molecular level, than did 'normal' conventional base stocks.
This very, very refined base stock very closely approched the performance of a full PAO synthetic, so the courts decided that "If it does the same thing, whats the difference"?, and allowed Castrol to call it synthetic.
The European government does not allow Castrol to sell this product as synthetic there...it carries a different name.
In ExxonMobil in-house tests, the Castrol product is very close to the Mobil 1 product in all areas except:
1)Phosphorous and Sulfer content, which are the main contributors to sludge formation. It comes from the crude oil, and is extremely difficult to remove completely. Mobil 1 has ZERO of these components, making it almost 100% resistant to sludge formation.
2)Mineral-oil is very susceptibale to high-temperature oxidation, creating...sludge and varnish. It also reatins heat and reduces lubricity. Mobil's PAO technology is almost 100% resistant to high-temperature oxidation. Once again, no sludge formation...with better gas mileage to boot!
3) Mobil 1 uses less additives overall (by percentage), meaning more actual oil 'in the mix', creating a cooler running engine, and producing better gas mileage.
Castrol does not, and never has operated a refinery, a blending or a packaging facility.They are simply a bottler of product.
They buy their base stocks from an outside vendor or vendors, two of which are or have been 'Louisiana Specialty Lubricants" and 'Coastal/Unilube'. There are, of course others.
They order their custom-blended additive package from a seperate additive manufacturer. In the past they used Texaco, but the Texaco Additive and research facility in the Catskills has since been closed. In fact, today, 'Texaco' is nothing more than a brand name. I don't know where Castrol gets their additives today, but I suspect it is from Chevron or one of its many subsidiaries.
This is then all put together in bottles with a label by a packager, and drop-shipped to their warehouse facility.
Amsoil has quite an interesting story behind it: In the fifties, military-man Al Amatuzio was quite impressed with the performance of the synthetic grease used in landing gear of carrier-bound aircraft.
Mobil corp was commissioned by the US to come up with a grease that would not freeze at the extreme temperatures encountered by aircraft landing gear, and Mobil came up with synthetic grease. Made it only for the military, as they felt no consumer would be willing to pay the exorbitant price for synthetic lubricants for their cars and trucks.
After leaving the military, Amatuzio contracted Mobil to manufacture synthetic motor oil base stocks for his new company, 'Amzoil'(original spelling).
Having his own additive package installed, he marketed this as the 'World's first synthetic motor oil' in 1971(maybe 1972).
The following year, Mobil introduced thier Mobil 1 product, made with their own additive package.
The difference is that Mobil had (and still has) the ability to make thier additive packages in any fashion they please.
Amatuzio was limited to buying his 'off the shelf' additives from one of the industrial additive marketers. Not a bad thing, just not 'exclusive'.
Amatuzio, quite the entrepreneur, still runs the company. He is also the same guy who started AAMCO transmissions, MAACO paint and body, and several other lesser-known companies. Quite a brilliant business man, actually.
Flash-forward to today: Amsoil (current spelling) no longer buys their base stocks from Mobil, but that doesn't mean they get them from the same place as Castrol.
Interestingly, Amsoil, who used to buy their base stocks exclusively from Mobil, now buys their base stocks from the lowest bidder, and are consequently now using G-III/IV base stocks in their 'synthetic' oil. Group-III/IV base stocks, are a step below group V PAO base stocks used by Mobil 1. They claim they perform the same. I disagree, and so do most other non-partial lubricant engineers.
I believe Mobil's site, and the bottles of oil which say full synthetic, before an unknown guy on a BMW quoting another unknown guy on a Nissan forum who is pushing AMSOIL. AMSOIL is always trying to discredit Mobil in one way or another, which is funny since AMSOIL used to buy their base stocks from Mobil.
If you read other posts on that forum, you'll see numerous BMW 3 series owners etc that have "beat" and shamed every c6 and Z06 they came across. I don't believe that either.
Here is the true story about the lawsuit:
Mobil 1 uses a 100% completely synthetic PAO (Poly Alpha Olephin) Group-V base stock. Mobil invented this technology back in the fifties, and they have always used the 'true' synthetic formula.
Castrol 'Syntec', as originally sold in America back in the late eighties/early nineties, was NOT a true synthetic, even though it was advertised as such.
The Castrol product used a group-III/IV base stock which is derived from natural petroleum/crude oil sources.
The lawsuit brought by Mobil against Castrol resulted in the decision that Castrol was indeed allowed to call thier product 'full synthetic' based on the fact that Castrol claimed it's base stocks recieved further refining processes, at the molecular level, than did 'normal' conventional base stocks.
This very, very refined base stock very closely approched the performance of a full PAO synthetic, so the courts decided that "If it does the same thing, whats the difference"?, and allowed Castrol to call it synthetic.
The European government does not allow Castrol to sell this product as synthetic there...it carries a different name.
In ExxonMobil in-house tests, the Castrol product is very close to the Mobil 1 product in all areas except:
1)Phosphorous and Sulfer content, which are the main contributors to sludge formation. It comes from the crude oil, and is extremely difficult to remove completely. Mobil 1 has ZERO of these components, making it almost 100% resistant to sludge formation.
2)Mineral-oil is very susceptibale to high-temperature oxidation, creating...sludge and varnish. It also reatins heat and reduces lubricity. Mobil's PAO technology is almost 100% resistant to high-temperature oxidation. Once again, no sludge formation...with better gas mileage to boot!
3) Mobil 1 uses less additives overall (by percentage), meaning more actual oil 'in the mix', creating a cooler running engine, and producing better gas mileage.
Castrol does not, and never has operated a refinery, a blending or a packaging facility.They are simply a bottler of product.
They buy their base stocks from an outside vendor or vendors, two of which are or have been 'Louisiana Specialty Lubricants" and 'Coastal/Unilube'. There are, of course others.
They order their custom-blended additive package from a seperate additive manufacturer. In the past they used Texaco, but the Texaco Additive and research facility in the Catskills has since been closed. In fact, today, 'Texaco' is nothing more than a brand name. I don't know where Castrol gets their additives today, but I suspect it is from Chevron or one of its many subsidiaries.
This is then all put together in bottles with a label by a packager, and drop-shipped to their warehouse facility.
Amsoil has quite an interesting story behind it: In the fifties, military-man Al Amatuzio was quite impressed with the performance of the synthetic grease used in landing gear of carrier-bound aircraft.
Mobil corp was commissioned by the US to come up with a grease that would not freeze at the extreme temperatures encountered by aircraft landing gear, and Mobil came up with synthetic grease. Made it only for the military, as they felt no consumer would be willing to pay the exorbitant price for synthetic lubricants for their cars and trucks.
After leaving the military, Amatuzio contracted Mobil to manufacture synthetic motor oil base stocks for his new company, 'Amzoil'(original spelling).
Having his own additive package installed, he marketed this as the 'World's first synthetic motor oil' in 1971(maybe 1972).
The following year, Mobil introduced thier Mobil 1 product, made with their own additive package.
The difference is that Mobil had (and still has) the ability to make thier additive packages in any fashion they please.
Amatuzio was limited to buying his 'off the shelf' additives from one of the industrial additive marketers. Not a bad thing, just not 'exclusive'.
Amatuzio, quite the entrepreneur, still runs the company. He is also the same guy who started AAMCO transmissions, MAACO paint and body, and several other lesser-known companies. Quite a brilliant business man, actually.
Flash-forward to today: Amsoil (current spelling) no longer buys their base stocks from Mobil, but that doesn't mean they get them from the same place as Castrol.
Interestingly, Amsoil, who used to buy their base stocks exclusively from Mobil, now buys their base stocks from the lowest bidder, and are consequently now using G-III/IV base stocks in their 'synthetic' oil. Group-III/IV base stocks, are a step below group V PAO base stocks used by Mobil 1. They claim they perform the same. I disagree, and so do most other non-partial lubricant engineers.
03-24-2007, 09:31 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2005
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That was one of the more informative and interesting posts I've read on the forum. Thanks for the info and the education regarding synthetic oils....... I use Mobil 1 and plan to continue as long as I own my vette........ :cheers
03-24-2007, 09:48 PM
#8
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
It is still a full synthetic. This is a matter of playing telephone, where the facts get changed as they are passed along until the truth is complete obscured.
I believe Mobil's site, and the bottles of oil which say full synthetic, before an unknown guy on a BMW quoting another unknown guy on a Nissan forum who is pushing AMSOIL. AMSOIL is always trying to discredit Mobil in one way or another, which is funny since AMSOIL used to buy their base stocks from Mobil.
If you read other posts on that forum, you'll see numerous BMW 3 series owners etc that have "beat" and shamed every c6 and Z06 they came across. I don't believe that either.
Here is the true story about the lawsuit:
Mobil 1 uses a 100% completely synthetic PAO (Poly Alpha Olephin) Group-V base stock. Mobil invented this technology back in the fifties, and they have always used the 'true' synthetic formula.
Castrol 'Syntec', as originally sold in America back in the late eighties/early nineties, was NOT a true synthetic, even though it was advertised as such.
The Castrol product used a group-III/IV base stock which is derived from natural petroleum/crude oil sources.
The lawsuit brought by Mobil against Castrol resulted in the decision that Castrol was indeed allowed to call thier product 'full synthetic' based on the fact that Castrol claimed it's base stocks recieved further refining processes, at the molecular level, than did 'normal' conventional base stocks.
This very, very refined base stock very closely approched the performance of a full PAO synthetic, so the courts decided that "If it does the same thing, whats the difference"?, and allowed Castrol to call it synthetic.
The European government does not allow Castrol to sell this product as synthetic there...it carries a different name.
In ExxonMobil in-house tests, the Castrol product is very close to the Mobil 1 product in all areas except:
1)Phosphorous and Sulfer content, which are the main contributors to sludge formation. It comes from the crude oil, and is extremely difficult to remove completely. Mobil 1 has ZERO of these components, making it almost 100% resistant to sludge formation.
2)Mineral-oil is very susceptibale to high-temperature oxidation, creating...sludge and varnish. It also reatins heat and reduces lubricity. Mobil's PAO technology is almost 100% resistant to high-temperature oxidation. Once again, no sludge formation...with better gas mileage to boot!
3) Mobil 1 uses less additives overall (by percentage), meaning more actual oil 'in the mix', creating a cooler running engine, and producing better gas mileage.
Castrol does not, and never has operated a refinery, a blending or a packaging facility.They are simply a bottler of product.
They buy their base stocks from an outside vendor or vendors, two of which are or have been 'Louisiana Specialty Lubricants" and 'Coastal/Unilube'. There are, of course others.
They order their custom-blended additive package from a seperate additive manufacturer. In the past they used Texaco, but the Texaco Additive and research facility in the Catskills has since been closed. In fact, today, 'Texaco' is nothing more than a brand name. I don't know where Castrol gets their additives today, but I suspect it is from Chevron or one of its many subsidiaries.
This is then all put together in bottles with a label by a packager, and drop-shipped to their warehouse facility.
Amsoil has quite an interesting story behind it: In the fifties, military-man Al Amatuzio was quite impressed with the performance of the synthetic grease used in landing gear of carrier-bound aircraft.
Mobil corp was commissioned by the US to come up with a grease that would not freeze at the extreme temperatures encountered by aircraft landing gear, and Mobil came up with synthetic grease. Made it only for the military, as they felt no consumer would be willing to pay the exorbitant price for synthetic lubricants for their cars and trucks.
After leaving the military, Amatuzio contracted Mobil to manufacture synthetic motor oil base stocks for his new company, 'Amzoil'(original spelling).
Having his own additive package installed, he marketed this as the 'World's first synthetic motor oil' in 1971(maybe 1972).
The following year, Mobil introduced thier Mobil 1 product, made with their own additive package.
The difference is that Mobil had (and still has) the ability to make thier additive packages in any fashion they please.
Amatuzio was limited to buying his 'off the shelf' additives from one of the industrial additive marketers. Not a bad thing, just not 'exclusive'.
Amatuzio, quite the entrepreneur, still runs the company. He is also the same guy who started AAMCO transmissions, MAACO paint and body, and several other lesser-known companies. Quite a brilliant business man, actually.
Flash-forward to today: Amsoil (current spelling) no longer buys their base stocks from Mobil, but that doesn't mean they get them from the same place as Castrol.
Interestingly, Amsoil, who used to buy their base stocks exclusively from Mobil, now buys their base stocks from the lowest bidder, and are consequently now using G-III/IV base stocks in their 'synthetic' oil. Group-III/IV base stocks, are a step below group V PAO base stocks used by Mobil 1. They claim they perform the same. I disagree, and so do most other non-partial lubricant engineers.
I believe Mobil's site, and the bottles of oil which say full synthetic, before an unknown guy on a BMW quoting another unknown guy on a Nissan forum who is pushing AMSOIL. AMSOIL is always trying to discredit Mobil in one way or another, which is funny since AMSOIL used to buy their base stocks from Mobil.
If you read other posts on that forum, you'll see numerous BMW 3 series owners etc that have "beat" and shamed every c6 and Z06 they came across. I don't believe that either.
Here is the true story about the lawsuit:
Mobil 1 uses a 100% completely synthetic PAO (Poly Alpha Olephin) Group-V base stock. Mobil invented this technology back in the fifties, and they have always used the 'true' synthetic formula.
Castrol 'Syntec', as originally sold in America back in the late eighties/early nineties, was NOT a true synthetic, even though it was advertised as such.
The Castrol product used a group-III/IV base stock which is derived from natural petroleum/crude oil sources.
The lawsuit brought by Mobil against Castrol resulted in the decision that Castrol was indeed allowed to call thier product 'full synthetic' based on the fact that Castrol claimed it's base stocks recieved further refining processes, at the molecular level, than did 'normal' conventional base stocks.
This very, very refined base stock very closely approched the performance of a full PAO synthetic, so the courts decided that "If it does the same thing, whats the difference"?, and allowed Castrol to call it synthetic.
The European government does not allow Castrol to sell this product as synthetic there...it carries a different name.
In ExxonMobil in-house tests, the Castrol product is very close to the Mobil 1 product in all areas except:
1)Phosphorous and Sulfer content, which are the main contributors to sludge formation. It comes from the crude oil, and is extremely difficult to remove completely. Mobil 1 has ZERO of these components, making it almost 100% resistant to sludge formation.
2)Mineral-oil is very susceptibale to high-temperature oxidation, creating...sludge and varnish. It also reatins heat and reduces lubricity. Mobil's PAO technology is almost 100% resistant to high-temperature oxidation. Once again, no sludge formation...with better gas mileage to boot!
3) Mobil 1 uses less additives overall (by percentage), meaning more actual oil 'in the mix', creating a cooler running engine, and producing better gas mileage.
Castrol does not, and never has operated a refinery, a blending or a packaging facility.They are simply a bottler of product.
They buy their base stocks from an outside vendor or vendors, two of which are or have been 'Louisiana Specialty Lubricants" and 'Coastal/Unilube'. There are, of course others.
They order their custom-blended additive package from a seperate additive manufacturer. In the past they used Texaco, but the Texaco Additive and research facility in the Catskills has since been closed. In fact, today, 'Texaco' is nothing more than a brand name. I don't know where Castrol gets their additives today, but I suspect it is from Chevron or one of its many subsidiaries.
This is then all put together in bottles with a label by a packager, and drop-shipped to their warehouse facility.
Amsoil has quite an interesting story behind it: In the fifties, military-man Al Amatuzio was quite impressed with the performance of the synthetic grease used in landing gear of carrier-bound aircraft.
Mobil corp was commissioned by the US to come up with a grease that would not freeze at the extreme temperatures encountered by aircraft landing gear, and Mobil came up with synthetic grease. Made it only for the military, as they felt no consumer would be willing to pay the exorbitant price for synthetic lubricants for their cars and trucks.
After leaving the military, Amatuzio contracted Mobil to manufacture synthetic motor oil base stocks for his new company, 'Amzoil'(original spelling).
Having his own additive package installed, he marketed this as the 'World's first synthetic motor oil' in 1971(maybe 1972).
The following year, Mobil introduced thier Mobil 1 product, made with their own additive package.
The difference is that Mobil had (and still has) the ability to make thier additive packages in any fashion they please.
Amatuzio was limited to buying his 'off the shelf' additives from one of the industrial additive marketers. Not a bad thing, just not 'exclusive'.
Amatuzio, quite the entrepreneur, still runs the company. He is also the same guy who started AAMCO transmissions, MAACO paint and body, and several other lesser-known companies. Quite a brilliant business man, actually.
Flash-forward to today: Amsoil (current spelling) no longer buys their base stocks from Mobil, but that doesn't mean they get them from the same place as Castrol.
Interestingly, Amsoil, who used to buy their base stocks exclusively from Mobil, now buys their base stocks from the lowest bidder, and are consequently now using G-III/IV base stocks in their 'synthetic' oil. Group-III/IV base stocks, are a step below group V PAO base stocks used by Mobil 1. They claim they perform the same. I disagree, and so do most other non-partial lubricant engineers.
03-24-2007, 10:05 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: AZ
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Interestingly, Amsoil, who used to buy their base stocks exclusively from Mobil, now buys their base stocks from the lowest bidder, and are consequently now using G-III/IV base stocks in their 'synthetic' oil. Group-III/IV base stocks, are a step below group V PAO base stocks used by Mobil 1. They claim they perform the same. I disagree, and so do most other non-partial lubricant engineers.
This whole oil subject can become very complicated. I would recommend anyone who is really interested in oils, their makeup and use to visit Bob Is The Oil Guy dot com. You will find more info than you ever wanted to know about oil. Good luck.
03-25-2007, 12:13 AM
#10
Team Owner
03-25-2007, 01:02 AM
#11
Team Owner
Does it really matter? All ... I mean almost All ... of the top car makers of High Power cars use Mobil 1 ... Vipers, Vettes, Ferrari's, Lamborghini ...all OEM Mobil 1 ... if it is good enough for a F430 ... it cannot be bad.
03-25-2007, 09:44 AM
#17
Safety Car
Lets not forget NASCAR, Formula 1, IndyCar, etc.
Whatever report, marketing, brand you believe in, use what you like and I hope you get millions of fun miles.
But the truth of the matter is this - set aside opinions, rulings, marketing hype..... oil technology as a whole has come light years from where it once was. Consider one thing - Of all the people you know....of every car and oil type used....how many engine or part failures can you think of that were related to the engine oil's performance characteristics or base stock content (not from running low on oil, or the lack of changing it)?
03-25-2007, 10:43 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '06-'08-'10-'11-'12-'13 '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19
Lets not forget NASCAR, Formula 1, IndyCar, etc.
Whatever report, marketing, brand you believe in, use what you like and I hope you get millions of fun miles.
But the truth of the matter is this - set aside opinions, rulings, marketing hype..... oil technology as a whole has come light years from where it once was. Consider one thing - Of all the people you know....of every car and oil type used....how many engine or part failures can you think of that were related to the engine oil's performance characteristics or base stock content (not from running low on oil, or the lack of changing it)?
03-25-2007, 01:59 PM
#19
Instructor
Next thing you know, 91 octane gas will be considered "premium"
Oh, and I find it hard to believe that Ferrari's F1 team uses consumer-grade oil I can buy at PepBoys. They don't use run-of-the-mill anything in those cars.
03-25-2007, 09:29 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Don't confuse people... they have their mind made up.
No one has challenged the basic claim: Mobil has changed their formulation. While they may be "legally" allowed to claim they are "full synthetic", they admit on their web site that they use Group V base. Group V is not synthetic based stock.
Anyone have facts to show that Group V is completely synthetic base stock? NO?
If you guys are comfortable with "the law" defining what is "full synthetic", by all means ignore the facts. As for me, I will be looking for an oil, which facts, not the law, establishes is "synthetic." That oil will have completely synthetic stock, Group IV.
I'm not pushing any particular oil. I won't, however, patronize a company which uses a legal technicality (which Mobil's original lawsuit tried to challenge) just because they are sore losers, after they lost in court. Mobil sued Castrol claiming Castrol's formulation was misleading and that it was not "full synthetic." When Mobil lost its court case, instead of publicizing the difference in formulation between Mobil and Castrol, it adopted the same type formulation that Castrol had been using. The very same type formulation that Mobil had claimed was "misleading." When a company claims one thing and does another, they lose my business.
Does Mobil still make a Group IV based oil, I'm sure. Does it offer it to consumers like you and me, NO.
No one has challenged the basic claim: Mobil has changed their formulation. While they may be "legally" allowed to claim they are "full synthetic", they admit on their web site that they use Group V base. Group V is not synthetic based stock.
Anyone have facts to show that Group V is completely synthetic base stock? NO?
If you guys are comfortable with "the law" defining what is "full synthetic", by all means ignore the facts. As for me, I will be looking for an oil, which facts, not the law, establishes is "synthetic." That oil will have completely synthetic stock, Group IV.
I'm not pushing any particular oil. I won't, however, patronize a company which uses a legal technicality (which Mobil's original lawsuit tried to challenge) just because they are sore losers, after they lost in court. Mobil sued Castrol claiming Castrol's formulation was misleading and that it was not "full synthetic." When Mobil lost its court case, instead of publicizing the difference in formulation between Mobil and Castrol, it adopted the same type formulation that Castrol had been using. The very same type formulation that Mobil had claimed was "misleading." When a company claims one thing and does another, they lose my business.
Does Mobil still make a Group IV based oil, I'm sure. Does it offer it to consumers like you and me, NO.
