C6 1/4 Mile Performance Challenge
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
Does NPP exhaust bypass really qualify my car as being modified? I really doubt that the valves being open before 3500 rpm is going to make any difference besides making the car louder (Has anyone been on a dyno with NPP bypass on and off?).I wonder if anyone else in the stock category had the bypass and didn't think it was important to mention it. Even with the bypass, I think my car fits the criteria below. Please let me know what you guys think.
The common answer to that is "I like the way it sounds" and that's totally fair/justified.
But if running a new personal best in a bone stock car is that important (just as it was to me back when I was bone stock) then one should do anything/everything in their power to avoid any question of what constitutes stock or not.
And if opening the flaps earlier than the factory set 3500rpm does in fact help (and no, I really don't think it matters LOL
) then, well, there ya go.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
I do see your point but one might also ask, if it doesn't help then why even do it?
The common answer to that is "I like the way it sounds" and that's totally fair/justified.
But if running a new personal best in a bone stock car is that important (just as it was to me back when I was bone stock) then one should do anything/everything in their power to avoid any question of what constitutes stock or not.
And if opening the flaps earlier than the factory set 3500rpm does in fact help (and no, I really don't think it matters LOL) then, well, there ya go.
The common answer to that is "I like the way it sounds" and that's totally fair/justified.
But if running a new personal best in a bone stock car is that important (just as it was to me back when I was bone stock) then one should do anything/everything in their power to avoid any question of what constitutes stock or not.
And if opening the flaps earlier than the factory set 3500rpm does in fact help (and no, I really don't think it matters LOL
) then, well, there ya go.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
Even if a mod slows a car down (such as adding a HUGE rear spoiler or changing out wheels/tires to notably heavier but not stickier ones etc.) it's still a mod. And for the sake of at least some uniformity and to protect all involved making that change can still cost the car it's bone stock status.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 980
Likes: 2
From: Paragould Arkansas
You guys have to be kidding about not letting Jetstream on the list, he could pull the fuse and it would still be stock. Which is exactly like having the switch with the flaps open. You guys are taking this stuff to far. The freaking flaps open up at 3500 rpm anyways. Whats to say that from the factory the NPP was messed up and never worked, but the guy wants on the list even though his mufflers didn't work properly. You going to say NO I'M SORRY TAKE YOUR CAR TO THE DEALER ITS NOT FACTORY, because the flaps are not working properly? 
I can understand stock, but this is like saying I can't wax my car because it didn't come that way from the factory. The car is unacceptable, it moves throught the air faster than it did before it was waxed. Jetstream GOOD RUN
I can understand stock, but this is like saying I can't wax my car because it didn't come that way from the factory. The car is unacceptable, it moves throught the air faster than it did before it was waxed. Jetstream GOOD RUN
Last edited by Z51 6spd; Nov 13, 2008 at 07:00 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
Exactly. Even if it doesn't help, if tricking the NPP flaps to stay open is acceptable as bone stock then it opens the door for numerous other subjective interpretations as to what is still stock and what is not.
Even if a mod slows a car down (such as adding a HUGE rear spoiler or changing out wheels/tires to notably heavier but not stickier ones etc.) it's still a mod. And for the sake of at least some uniformity and to protect all involved making that change can still cost the car it's bone stock status.
Even if a mod slows a car down (such as adding a HUGE rear spoiler or changing out wheels/tires to notably heavier but not stickier ones etc.) it's still a mod. And for the sake of at least some uniformity and to protect all involved making that change can still cost the car it's bone stock status.
There is evidence that an increase in hp and or torque occurs before 3500RPM, at least in a Z06, with the exhaust fuse pulled vs with it in place.
Here are a few posts with regard to it.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1561403189-post28.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1561405213
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1559568317-post3.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ust-valve.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...o-numbers.html
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Nov 13, 2008 at 07:19 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
Whats to say that from the factory the NPP was messed up and never worked, but the guy wants on the list even though his mufflers didn't work properly. You going to say NO I'M SORRY TAKE YOUR CAR TO THE DEALER ITS NOT FACTORY, because the flaps are not working properly?
But based on your logic above, if the factory somehow mistakenly installed 3.42 gears into an automatic/A6 transmissioned car and then this 'allegedly stock' car anihilated all others on the list that it too should still be allowed/accepted even though it's not actually the owner's fault.
If you agree that it should be then your reasoning on this topic does make sense.
If pulling a fuse is no big deal then so is pulling out power steering pumps and air conditioning compressors and condensors and still calling the car stock. Yes one is somewhat simple and the other is quite extreme but there goes that fine line thing again.
Let me ask you this, if someone removed their passenger seat as the only alteration to the car, ran the it at the track and then claimed it as a new best in bone stock trim would you accept that?
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
flaps open or closed. One can see the writing on the wall, eh? Given good air/weather with CAI, Headers, Tune and DR's bolt-ons and you are looking at 11.50-11.70's. I'm just waiting for a bump to 450 hp somewhere down the line in the 2010-2013 models. I just know if I trade-in for a 2009, then next year it will be 450 hp
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
11.56 @ 118.82 - MCV - 08 Z51 M6 - CAI, DR - (1852)
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Race Director
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 15,324
Likes: 2,080
From: Guelph, Ontario
At the same time, what if the driver is a 100lb female? Do we not allow her to be on the list if she runs the best time?
So as you see, it's a tricky area!
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
That is an interesting question, because let's just say the passenger seat weighs 60 lbs (it could be more) and the driver of that car weighs 220 lbs. He isn't really at an advantage compared to the guy that weighs 160 and kept his passenger seat in, he's just evening up the playing field.
At the same time, what if the driver is a 100lb female? Do we not allow her to be on the list if she runs the best time?
So as you see, it's a tricky area!
At the same time, what if the driver is a 100lb female? Do we not allow her to be on the list if she runs the best time?
So as you see, it's a tricky area!
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 6
From: Makena, Maui & NM
I seem to recall that was a controversial run, thus no comment on it. Though 8850 did run a 11.80 in a 2008 LS3 A6 NPP 2.73 with the same CAI, headers and similar tune as me (no DRs) in very hot weather. He figured he could do a 11.49 in good air with cold weather.
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
You guys have to be kidding about not letting Jetstream on the list, he could pull the fuse and it would still be stock. Which is exactly like having the switch with the flaps open. You guys are taking this stuff to far. The freaking flaps open up at 3500 rpm anyways. Whats to say that from the factory the NPP was messed up and never worked, but the guy wants on the list even though his mufflers didn't work properly. You going to say NO I'M SORRY TAKE YOUR CAR TO THE DEALER ITS NOT FACTORY, because the flaps are not working properly?
I can understand stock, but this is like saying I can't wax my car because it didn't come that way from the factory. The car is unacceptable, it moves throught the air faster than it did before it was waxed. Jetstream GOOD RUN
I can understand stock, but this is like saying I can't wax my car because it didn't come that way from the factory. The car is unacceptable, it moves throught the air faster than it did before it was waxed. Jetstream GOOD RUN
What if I ran the quarter with my top out? The car's drag coefficient would increase but the weight would decrease along with the rigidity of the chasis. This would greatly alter the performance of the car. Would you still consider it stock? I'm just having some fun here, but I'm happy with where I'm at on the modified list. Thanks for everyones input. Vararam and a tune will be coming soon!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 980
Likes: 2
From: Paragould Arkansas
The point I see is these 2008-2009 LS3's doing 12.0-12.20 bone stock
flaps open or closed. One can see the writing on the wall, eh? Given good air/weather with CAI, Headers, Tune and DR's bolt-ons and you are looking at 11.50-11.70's. I'm just waiting for a bump to 450 hp somewhere down the line in the 2010-2013 models. I just know if I trade-in for a 2009, then next year it will be 450 hp
flaps open or closed. One can see the writing on the wall, eh? Given good air/weather with CAI, Headers, Tune and DR's bolt-ons and you are looking at 11.50-11.70's. I'm just waiting for a bump to 450 hp somewhere down the line in the 2010-2013 models. I just know if I trade-in for a 2009, then next year it will be 450 hp
If pulling a fuse is no big deal then so is pulling out power steering pumps and air conditioning compressors and condensors and still calling the car stock. Yes one is somewhat simple and the other is quite extreme but there goes that fine line thing again.
Last edited by Z51 6spd; Nov 14, 2008 at 12:26 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,933
Likes: 905
From: salem OR
Thanks for stickin' up for me
What if I ran the quarter with my top out? The car's drag coefficient would increase but the weight would decrease along with the rigidity of the chasis. This would greatly alter the performance of the car. Would you still consider it stock? I'm just having some fun here, but I'm happy with where I'm at on the modified list. Thanks for everyones input. Vararam and a tune will be coming soon!
What if I ran the quarter with my top out? The car's drag coefficient would increase but the weight would decrease along with the rigidity of the chasis. This would greatly alter the performance of the car. Would you still consider it stock? I'm just having some fun here, but I'm happy with where I'm at on the modified list. Thanks for everyones input. Vararam and a tune will be coming soon!
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
So let us clarify, if one were in fact able to unbolt and remove their passenger seat in the same amount of time it takes to pull that fuse you would accept the time slip from a passenger seatless car as still stock?
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 27,254
Likes: 136
From: Short Hills, NJ
Once again, while it's not the owner's intention or fault it is still, according to the strictest definition of the term, not bone stock.
You know, if I drive over a very raised manhole cover and it somehow pulls my cats and entire exhaust system off without damaging/disabling any other parts of the car and then I go to the track and the lighter weight and freer flow of that broken off exhaust helps the car run quicker....well, I think you know where I'm going with that.
You know, if I drive over a very raised manhole cover and it somehow pulls my cats and entire exhaust system off without damaging/disabling any other parts of the car and then I go to the track and the lighter weight and freer flow of that broken off exhaust helps the car run quicker....well, I think you know where I'm going with that.
Race Director
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 11,549
Likes: 27
From: Southampton NJ
but if it came with a switch from the factory as an option it would be stock, pulling the fuse is like altering the tune, or taking the wipers off, its just a fuse, jetstreamz51 was very honest and that's what the list is about honesty and integrity. we all know the definition of pure stock.lets just put the fuse in run again and get a better time
